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Forum » Moral Dilemma; the Case for Capitalism
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Thread: Moral Dilemma; the Case for Capitalism

post 1694079703 11-28-2023, 08:45 PM
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Moral Dilemma; the Case for Capitalism

In one of my books, there was an argument made for capitalism and freedom that essentially said that it’s better for a society to be free because it is the most humane way for a society to deal with nature and the problems it comes with.

The moral dilemma can be simplified as such; If you feed the poor on a massive scale, it won’t be long before there are too many poor to feed. At that point, no one will be able to keep up with the scale of the money required and the resulting over population.

If society is left to deal with this dilemma, it will never reach a critical level. Charitable acts were plentiful in earlier America, but when the welfare state became policy, charitable acts dramatically decreased.

For the Christian, we understand this as God’s will. Natural processes need to play out, and although it sounds hateful, nature is not hateful. God is not hateful. They just are. Nature, or tragedy, shouldn’t be viewed as evil, because evil is man made, and evil can be the result of man attempting to defy God and nature. The Greeks and Romans understood this well. Marcus Aurelius brings up nature in this regard in his book Meditations. That we must all deal with nature, therefore it is something we should not fear, but I thikn that’s why many people don’t like freedom.

Dealing with life’s struggles creates strong character, a solid moral foundation, and compels people to cooperate and live harmoniously with one another because we need each other. Socialism removes this from the equation. It replaces willful cooperation to survive with forced taxation in order to take care of others. This means that a society no longer has to be kind to one another, to cooperate in order to thrive etc. Regardless of how evil someone becomes, money to survive is guaranteed. Individuals no longer needs each other.

On an individual level, capitalism allows individuals to work towards their own goals and interests based on their own abilities. Having plenty of opportunities for their specific needs. Government, OTOH, through socialism, cannot know what anyone needs, at any time.

Socialism becomes a worst case.

A moral scenario I thought of was, if you were Superman, or God, would you interfere to help people, knowing that helping them would take them one step closer and closer to an unnatural society, and world? For instance, by saving too many lives, the population would spin out of control, economies would collapse, drug use would get to all time highs, life would get so easy that no one cared. Or would you sit by, maybe only stopping the truly evil, like the Stalins, Hitlers, and Bidens? Or would you do nothing, knowing that you weren’t doing man any favors?
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
post 1694080373 11-28-2023, 09:03 PM
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Nonsensical foolishness.

You can't be "free" when your country consists of 1% who own most of the wealth while everyone else is left to fight for the scraps. That is not freedom that is slavery.

Capitalism is a joke and anyone who thinks you can have a functional society based on selfishness and individualism does not understand basic human nature
post 1694081383 11-28-2023, 09:37 PM
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The most important thing to remember is that the state isnt real. Any observation you make about human frailties and issues applies to 'the state' which is, objectively, just a group of human beings that want you to believe some ornate symbology like flags gives them a divine right to hurt people
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post 1694081503 11-28-2023, 09:39 PM
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You can neg all you like, ain't changing the fact that you seem to never know what you're talking about and often copy and paste entire posts because you're far too dumb to make one yourself.

Capitalism is a failure. Imagine a country of people thinking that they should use an economy that ends up hurting the vast majority so that a few people can live like kings.

Sad!
post 1694081563 11-28-2023, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted By Islandboyo⏩
Nonsensical foolishness.

You can't be "free" when your country consists of 1% who own most of the wealth while everyone else is left to fight for the scraps. That is not freedom that is slavery.

Capitalism is a joke and anyone who thinks you can have a functional society based on selfishness and individualism does not understand basic human nature
"Work sets you free."
post 1694081793 11-28-2023, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
"Work sets you free."
Work sure does set you free

but unfortunately cost of living, taxes, inflation, interest, fees, speculation, and weak wages keep you chained up.

People who work and contribute to society should be able to enjoy all the benefits and luxuries of said society they're contributing to. Sadly in America it seems more and more people are being left out, and this number is only rising every year.
post 1694082563 11-28-2023, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted By Islandboyo⏩
Work sure does set you free

but unfortunately cost of living, taxes, inflation, interest, fees, speculation, and weak wages keep you chained up.

People who work and contribute to society should be able to enjoy all the benefits and luxuries of said society they're contributing to. Sadly in America it seems more and more people are being left out, and this number is only rising every year.
Whats your solution?
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post 1694082613 11-28-2023, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted By BullittEV⏩
Whats your solution?
What do you think? National Socialism is the answer.......
post 1694082673 11-28-2023, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
What do you think? National Socialism is the answer.......
No thanks. Why is it everyone wants to change the USA to be like the rest of the world? These entitled phgts come here, enjoy living here, and then try to make it like some other chit hole.
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post 1694082733 11-28-2023, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted By BullittEV⏩
No thanks. Why is it everyone wants to change the USA to be like the rest of the world? These entitled phgts come here, enjoy living here, and then try to make it like some other chit hole.
I love half the population being obese. Murica phuck yeah. Get your women some McDonald's and anti depressant medication
post 1694082853 11-28-2023, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted By Islandboyo⏩
Work sure does set you free

but unfortunately cost of living, taxes, inflation, interest, fees, speculation, and weak wages keep you chained up.

People who work and contribute to society should be able to enjoy all the benefits and luxuries of said society they're contributing to. Sadly in America it seems more and more people are being left out, and this number is only rising every year.
Exactly, The farther we move away from capitalism, the worse things get. That was kinda of the point of this thread.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
post 1694082963 11-28-2023, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted By ColdandChilly⏩
I love half the population being obese. Murica phuck yeah. Get your women some McDonald's and anti depressant medication
What the fuk are you talking about? If you have a problem with US healthcare or fast food thats fine but to move away from capitalism is some third world chit.

Again, whats your solution? Dont eat McDonalds and raise your kids right, derp.
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post 1694084773 11-28-2023, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted By BullittEV⏩
What the fuk are you talking about? If you have a problem with US healthcare or fast food thats fine but to move away from capitalism is some third world chit.

Again, whats your solution? Dont eat McDonalds and raise your kids right, derp.
That's a direct result of capitalism. We can't place any restrictions because that's anti freedom and anti capitalism
post 1694084973 11-28-2023, 11:45 PM
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Next time they need to design a virus that takes out a race , not just the old . Problem practically over
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post 1694085043 11-28-2023, 11:48 PM
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So back to the original question, if you were Superman or God, would you interfere knowing there is a cost that very well could be worse than the solution? If so, what would you do and how would you deal with the costs?

Inb4 Thanos
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
post 1694086033 11-29-2023, 12:40 AM
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If you don't feed the poor, it won't be long until they kill and eat you. What a dilemma.

Stalin was the greatest leader in human history.
post 1694086283 11-29-2023, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted By brooootal⏩
If you don't feed the poor, it won't be long until they kill and eat you. What a dilemma.

Stalin was the greatest leader in human history.
You can't help but expose yourself, wincel
post 1694091023 11-29-2023, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted By ColdandChilly⏩
That's a direct result of capitalism. We can't place any restrictions because that's anti freedom and anti capitalism
how are you missing the point? Take some personal responsibility.

So again, nobody answers, whats your solution?
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post 1694091143 11-29-2023, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted By ColdandChilly⏩
I love half the population being obese. Murica phuck yeah. Get your women some McDonald's and anti depressant medication
Obesity is a worldwide problem, you do know that right?
post 1694091223 11-29-2023, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted By brooootal⏩
If you don't feed the poor, it won't be long until they kill and eat you. What a dilemma.

Stalin was the greatest leader in human history.
Nobody was poor or hungry under Stalin......
post 1694092803 11-29-2023, 06:35 AM
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I don't ever recall Jesus saying anything like this. I do recall him saying give up all your possessions and follow me.
Originally Posted By Islandboyo⏩
You can neg all you like, ain't changing the fact that you seem to never know what you're talking about and often copy and paste entire posts because you're far too dumb to make one yourself.

Capitalism is a failure. Imagine a country of people thinking that they should use an economy that ends up hurting the vast majority so that a few people can live like kings.

Sad!
Your post here is funny because your outlook, all of our outlooks usually have very much to do with how we're doing in life. I guess things aren't going so well for you.
When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home.
post 1694095063 11-29-2023, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted By brooootal⏩
If you don't feed the poor, it won't be long until they kill and eat you. What a dilemma.

Stalin was the greatest leader in human history.
Yes, if you mean kill and eat each other, but the global elite running things? Not a chance.
post 1694095913 11-29-2023, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
So back to the original question, if you were Superman or God, would you interfere knowing there is a cost that very well could be worse than the solution? If so, what would you do and how would you deal with the costs?

Inb4 Thanos
Look into thomas sowells discussions about poor black communities prior to welfare. No one went without food or medicine, people in need were cared for by the community.

But it was not a blank check. Thats where your hazard comes from. When theres a blind central authority handing out stolen money to anyone that asks for it, sure. When its private people are expected to prove their need, and there is great focus on resolving whatever issue is preventing self sufficiency if possible
“It’s the bill of rights, not the bill of requests. Rights are not up for negotiations.” Thomas Massie, MAGA enemy #1
post 1694184153 11-30-2023, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted By BullittEV⏩
how are you missing the point? Take some personal responsibility.

So again, nobody answers, whats your solution?
Okay and when the vast majority have no personal responsibility then what do you do? Just accept that your kids will grow up in a society full of obese drug addicts? You're fine with that?

"take some personal responsibility" is not an answer, as clearly more and more people don't give a ****.
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Originally Posted By Godfrd824⏩
I don't ever recall Jesus saying anything like this. I do recall him saying give up all your possessions and follow me.



Your post here is funny because your outlook, all of our outlooks usually have very much to do with how we're doing in life. I guess things aren't going so well for you.
Some of us are a little more intelligent and empathetic than you would ever be capable of. Low IQ subhuman's are unable to think of anything other than their own little insignificant lives, while those of us who are more evolved understand that just because we're doing fine doesn't mean everyone around us is.

I laugh at the clowns on here who brag and boast about how their own little communities are safe and successful, as if they are oblivious to the trends in the country over the last 50 years. Many small communities have went to chit real quick, it's happening every day. I think people like you who can't think of anyone besides yourself; let alone the future generations, should not be allowed to voice your opinions on anything.
post 1694184523 11-30-2023, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted By Islandboyo⏩
Nonsensical foolishness.

You can't be "free" when your country consists of 1% who own most of the wealth while everyone else is left to fight for the scraps. That is not freedom that is slavery.

Capitalism is a joke and anyone who thinks you can have a functional society based on selfishness and individualism does not understand basic human nature
The problem isn't capitalism, it's the cronies who are taking advantage of the system and their government pals that allow it to happen.
Wort ew in th wold.
post 1694184843 11-30-2023, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted By Stizzel⏩
Look into thomas sowells discussions about poor black communities prior to welfare. No one went without food or medicine, people in need were cared for by the community.

But it was not a blank check. Thats where your hazard comes from. When theres a blind central authority handing out stolen money to anyone that asks for it, sure. When its private people are expected to prove their need, and there is great focus on resolving whatever issue is preventing self sufficiency if possible
They learned the hard way, relying on the government for food on Thanksgiving.
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Originally Posted By Islandboyo⏩
Some of us are a little more intelligent and empathetic than you would ever be capable of. Low IQ subhuman's are unable to think of anything other than their own little insignificant lives, while those of us who are more evolved understand that just because we're doing fine doesn't mean everyone around us is.

I laugh at the clowns on here who brag and boast about how their own little communities are safe and successful, as if they are oblivious to the trends in the country over the last 50 years. Many small communities have went to chit real quick, it's happening every day. I think people like you who can't think of anyone besides yourself; let alone the future generations, should not be allowed to voice your opinions on anything.
So under your fantasy, what would happen to those who become successful? What would happen to billionaires?
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Originally Posted By ClivesTriceps⏩
The problem isn't capitalism, it's the cronies who are taking advantage of the system and their government pals that allow it to happen.
The problem with capitalism is that it is inherently tied to the beliefs that freedom and individualism is more important than duty and community. Why shouldn't cronies take advantage of the system? After all they are just looking out for themselves and to hell with everyone else. Why should the government officials care either?

In a capitalist society everything is about money, so why shouldn't people sell out their fellow man and future generations just to make a few bucks for themselves?

Capitalism IS the problem, but it is also a symptom of the whole idea of individualism/materialism in general. Americans have no love for their fellow countrymen, which is why America as a country is falling apart. People who loved their country and fellow man would never adopt a capitalist system in the first place. It literally only appeals to a bunch of jews who want to profit off of everyone else until they suck them dry.
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Originally Posted By Islandboyo⏩
Okay and when the vast majority have no personal responsibility then what do you do? Just accept that your kids will grow up in a society full of obese drug addicts? You're fine with that?

"take some personal responsibility" is not an answer, as clearly more and more people don't give a ****.
“Totalitarianism is the pathological state in which a society no longer wants to take responsibility.” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

It always seems counter intuitive to the socialist of why we think capitalism is better. The truth is, that liberty allows us to better take care of family and friends because healthcare costs less, taxes are lower, cost of living is lower, so we have more money in our pockets, then we can be more charitable. A couple economists discovered that when people are first allowed to pursue self interest, they are more likely to take care of those around them, and that only happens under capitalism and liberty.

Individuals living together are more capable of knowing what others need and want as well, which is why capitalism works so well. The better you know someone and their situation, the more capable you are of helping them in a manner that will actually improve his life. Socialism, OTOH, socialism is a broad sweeping agenda that only manages to give a few what they need, and the rest is potentially influences and corrupts. The government is not capable of knowing what the individual wants or needs.

Socialism creates a detachment from your fellow man. It’s quite the opposite of what the socialist believes. It is delusion. “If I’m paying all these taxes to help others, and I’m working by butt off and getting a measly wage because the government is taking it all, then my work here is done”.

It’s funny that the socialist complains about wages, but rarely ever about the fact that the government takes 30-40% of his paycheck, that he’s paying for welfare and a HUGE government, and a high cost of living because of the inflation caused by the government. Instead he focuses on the smaller chunk of money that the company makes in profits, which would barely make a dent in his paycheck compared to the taxes and inflation government causes. Think about how much money you would have if the government only taxed you 5-10% total, and everything cost 20-40% less. Think about how easy it would be to live, help others, and donate/volunteer to help your family and neighbors.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
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