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Forum » Why is the USA still building full size aircraft carriers?
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Thread: Why is the USA still building full size aircraft carriers?

post 1694304653 12-03-2023, 11:08 AM
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Why is the USA still building full size aircraft carriers?

With the proliferation of UAV and missile technology aren't they just expensive targets against a near peer adversary?

The unit cost of the new Gerald Ford carriers is $13b, the unit cost of one of these is $4-10m:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kratos_XQ-58_Valkyrie

In a future that's clearly heading toward distributed, linked, expendable, semi-autonomous aircraft and naval capabilities why are we still building $13b floating islands with 2,500 people inside?

It seems like we would be better served building a lot of these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibious_assault_ship

Or even smaller vessels which carry larges numbers of drones/missiles.
post 1694305183 12-03-2023, 11:18 AM
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Power projection, FONOPs, and probably a lot more. Plus you need to realize most of the people in charge are old fuks...
From my experience with unmanned ops in the navy, it seems like it has a long way to go, every time I'm in a brief given to a senior leader(Admiral or someone about to make Admiral) the unmanned updates are typically about how theres a delay, how the product fukked up, the legal issues of flying without a pilot who can visually clear himself...
You think we will be able to operate UAV's OTH during WW3? or do you think our peers will shut down our satellite systems?
post 1694305443 12-03-2023, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted By jonmcd46⏩
Power projection, FONOPs, and probably a lot more. Plus you need to realize most of the people in charge are old fuks...
From my experience with unmanned ops in the navy, it seems like it has a long way to go, every time I'm in a brief given to a senior leader(Admiral or someone about to make Admiral) the unmanned updates are typically about how theres a delay, how the product fukked up, the legal issues of flying without a pilot who can visually clear himself...
You think we will be able to operate UAV's OTH during WW3? or do you think our peers will shut down our satellite systems?
That's why they are trying to build those semi-autonomous UAVs

From what I'm seeing a lot of the problems with UAVs are peacetime problems.

If 20% of them blow up a bus full of nuns or flies into a mountain during peacetime it's an international incident.

But if it happens in WW3 all anyone cares about is the 80% that succeeded in their mission. It's a very different mentality from self-driving cars which have to be 100% perfect.
post 1694305503 12-03-2023, 11:25 AM
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even in this future you describe of autonomous aircraft, they would still have an operational range. if an aircrafts range is 2k km and the region or country you are attacking is 10k km away from your territory, how do you effectively launch a combined arms attack? with aircraft carriers is the answer. especially when you consider that modern warfare is pretty much all about overwhelming force and air superiority, there is nothing better than an aircraft carrier.

you would be surprised how difficult it is to even locate an aircraft carrier group in the ocean, unless its docked or back in the US or something like that, much less lock on and score a hit.
post 1694305603 12-03-2023, 11:26 AM
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OP, do you know what a carrier really is? It is a huge multi-functional military platform and launching aircraft is just one thing that it does. They are also launching drones and all kinds of things off of them now.
post 1694305673 12-03-2023, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted By exxtracool⏩
even in this future you describe of autonomous aircraft, they would still have an operational range. if an aircrafts range is 2k km and the region or country you are attacking is 10k km away from your territory, how do you effectively launch a combined arms attack? with aircraft carriers is the answer. especially when you consider that modern warfare is pretty much all about overwhelming force and air superiority, there is nothing better than an aircraft carrier.

you would be surprised how difficult it is to even locate an aircraft carrier group in the ocean much less lock on and score a hit.
Right but these UASs are rocket launched and do not require a long runway for recovery. Same goes for missiles which do not require any runway at all.

We could build many more, smaller carriers to achieve the same mass but with the benefit of additional flexibility and ability to absorb losses.

post 1694305723 12-03-2023, 11:29 AM
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Aircraft carriers act as a major show of force or symbols of power projection. True, they face a lot more threats than ever before (although they have evolved as well to fight these new threats). Until a major war happens and aircraft carriers are seen as very vulnerable and unable to cope in a modern war scenario (a la battleships), they will still be around. Just like tanks; a lot of people say that they are very vulnerable and useless in the modern battlefield but they are still around, still pretty tough nuts to crack, and have the power to occupy and defend friendly ground with effective firepower.
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post 1694305733 12-03-2023, 11:29 AM
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When the global elite decide we go to war with China, we will go to war with China and need to be ready
post 1694306293 12-03-2023, 11:41 AM
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Itt op is oblivious to the concept of "time to theatre"
Boycott foodservice industry crew
post 1694306353 12-03-2023, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted By JackyChin⏩
Right but these UASs are rocket launched and do not require a long runway for recovery. Same goes for missiles which do not require any runway at all.

We could build many more, smaller carriers to achieve the same mass but with the benefit of additional flexibility and ability to absorb losses.

Wow you seem to be a real expert on the field. What is your experience and qualifications?
post 1694306393 12-03-2023, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted By monster0ultra⏩
As an excuse to transfer taxpayer dollars to Jews.
Cannot confirm.

The main maker of US Aircraft Carriers is run in a non-Jew city in Virginia. I don't think they have any Jewish leadership. srs.

Hint: They're made in the same city where you banged the blue-haired sloot and had your rental stolen. srs.
Misc Entrepreneur Crew
post 1694306453 12-03-2023, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted By Jasonw1178⏩
Wow you seem to be a real expert on the field. What is your experience and qualifications?
Pilot for the Air Force
post 1694306693 12-03-2023, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted By JackyChin⏩
Pilot for the Air Force
Absolute bullchit. srs

vidoe games don't count.
post 1694307033 12-03-2023, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted By JackyChin⏩
Pilot for the Air Force
post 1694307073 12-03-2023, 11:58 AM
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Post deleted by user
post 1694307203 12-03-2023, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted By JackyChin⏩
That's why they are trying to build those semi-autonomous UAVs

From what I'm seeing a lot of the problems with UAVs are peacetime problems.

If 20% of them blow up a bus full of nuns or flies into a mountain during peacetime it's an international incident.

But if it happens in WW3 all anyone cares about is the 80% that succeeded in their mission. It's a very different mentality from self-driving cars which have to be 100% perfect.
Yeah, us not being able to takeoff due to weather, broken parts, connectivity issues, etc are only peacetime issues...
tell me what mission sets do you think an aircraft carrier involves?
You clearly don't know chit, and ignored most of my post since you have no idea what it means
post 1694307283 12-03-2023, 12:03 PM
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To keep pace with China

No other reason
post 1694307353 12-03-2023, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted By jonmcd46⏩
Yeah, us not being able to takeoff due to weather, broken parts, connectivity issues, etc are only peacetime issues...
tell me what mission sets do you think an aircraft carrier involves?
You clearly don't know chit, and ignored most of my post since you have no idea what it means
Obviously you'd still have the smaller carrier be manned. Someone has to maintain the equipment.

My question is why we need a giant nuclear powered one. When we could spend the same on 3-4 smaller ones with similar capabilities.
post 1694307483 12-03-2023, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted By JackyChin⏩
Obviously you'd still have the smaller carrier be manned. Someone has to maintain the equipment.

My question is why we need a giant nuclear powered one. When we could spend the same on 3-4 smaller ones with similar capabilities.
Maintained for what purpose? what does a carrier do that a UAV cannot?
If you're a pilot for the air force, where'd you land at overseas? Anywhere in 7th fleet?
post 1694308093 12-03-2023, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted By jonmcd46⏩
Maintained for what purpose? what does a carrier do that a UAV cannot?

If you're a pilot for the air force, where'd you land at overseas? Anywhere in 7th fleet?
No, never been in the Pacific
post 1694308293 12-03-2023, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted By JackyChin⏩
Obviously you'd still have the smaller carrier be manned. Someone has to maintain the equipment.

My question is why we need a giant nuclear powered one. When we could spend the same on 3-4 smaller ones with similar capabilities.
We have those too, they are called Assault Ships.

Oh, and did you know that the airforce has nothing to do with carriers, that's the Navy.

Also, the Navy flies a lot more than just fighter jets off of them.

Did you know there are bigger planes that will be needed. Such as refueling planes, recon planes, radar planes, and other aircraft. So many other things that go on with carriers. The whole lower deck is mostly hanger. The generators produce enough electricity to power a city, especially the Ford.

Go do yourself a favor and go visit one of the many carriers we have as museums. Keep in mind, those were build around WWII but despite updates became too obsolete and yet they are leagues above what anyone else has.

Also, carriers don't travel alone either, they travel in strike groups.
post 1694308613 12-03-2023, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted By JackyChin⏩
No, never been in the Pacific
okay, well where have you been what did you fly? You clearly are trolling, not sure why'd you'd say you're a pilot in the AF instead of saying you flew EA-18's off a carrier or something. Would give you more credibility
post 1694308873 12-03-2023, 12:36 PM
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Because they're a floating USA ready to squash any bug that wants to FAFO. Why would we need to downsize? If anything they should make more.
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post 1694308933 12-03-2023, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted By jonmcd46⏩
okay, well where have you been what did you fly? You clearly are trolling, notsure why'd you'd say you're a pilot in the AF instead of saying you flew EA-18's off a carrier or something.Would give you more credibility
Because it's true???
post 1694309343 12-03-2023, 12:47 PM
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post 1694309383 12-03-2023, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted By JackyChin⏩
Because it's true???
okay, post a pic of your flight suit with a spoon. doesn't have to show your nametag or anything revealing, or tell us something that only an airforce pilot would know?
When you flew to foreign country's airports, did you have to know their language in order to fly or land there?
Whats the little X mean on an approach plate? who do you contact at an airport when you're trying to taxi to the line?
post 1694309483 12-03-2023, 12:51 PM
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What's wrong with having a powerful navy?

It's one of the reasons why the US conquered a thrid of the world.
post 1694309623 12-03-2023, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted By Jasonw1178⏩
OP, do you know what a carrier really is? It is a huge multi-functional military platform and launching aircraft is just one thing that it does. They are also launching drones and all kinds of things off of them now.
this.they are literally floating cities.they have more purposes than war
post 1694309693 12-03-2023, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted By jonmcd46⏩
okay, post a pic of your flight suit with a spoon. doesn't have to show your nametag or anything revealing, or tell us something that only an airforce pilot would know?
When you flew to foreign country's airports, did you have to know their language in order to fly or land there?
Whats the little X mean on an approach plate? who do you contact at an airport when you're trying to taxi to the line?
No, English is the universal language of aviation.

The X is the Final Approach Fix

When you say "taxi to the line" do you mean the runway? In that case ground until you're nearing the hold short line at which point you contact tower.
post 1694311933 12-03-2023, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted By Akd123⏩
this.they are literally floating cities.they have more purposes than war
I swear, ****ing Miscers are the worst.......
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