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» Trust the Science: Intermittent fasting linked to higher risk of cardiovascular death
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post 1699425953 03-19-2024, 12:37 PM
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Trust the Science: Intermittent fasting linked to higher risk of cardiovascular death

Intermittent fasting linked to higher risk of cardiovascular death, research suggests
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heart...ath-rcna143853
Intermittent fasting, a diet pattern that involves alternating between periods of fasting and eating, can lower blood pressure and help some people lose weight, past research has indicated.

But an analysis presented Monday at the American Heart Association’s scientific sessions in Chicago challenges the notion that intermittent fasting is good for heart health. Instead, researchers from Shanghai Jiao Tong University School of Medicine in China found that people who restricted food consumption to less than eight hours per day had a 91% higher risk of dying from cardiovascular disease over a median period of eight years, relative to people who ate across 12 to 16 hours.

It’s some of the first research investigating the association between time-restricted eating (a type of intermittent fasting) and the risk of death from cardiovascular disease.

The analysis —which has not yet been peer-reviewed or published in an academic journal(note: but the scary title certainly has been plastered all over many news outlets)— is based on data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey collected between 2003 and 2018. The researchers analyzed responses from around 20,000 adults who recorded what they ate for at least two days, then looked at who had died from cardiovascular disease after a median follow-up period of eight years.

However, Victor Wenze Zhong, a co-author of the analysis, said it’s too early to make specific recommendations about intermittent fasting based on his research alone.

“Practicing intermittent fasting for a short period such as 3 months may likely lead to benefits on reducing weight and improving cardiometabolic health,” Zhong said via email. But he added that people “should be extremely cautious” about intermittent fasting for longer periods of time, such as years.

Intermittent fasting regimens vary widely. A common schedule is to restrict eating to a period of six to eight hours per day, which can lead people to consume fewer calories, though some eat the same amount in a shorter time. Another popular schedule is the "5:2 diet," which involves eating 500 to 600 calories on two nonconsecutive days of the week but eating normally for the other five.

Zhong said it’s not clear why his research found an association between time-restricted eating and a risk of death from cardiovascular disease. He offered an observation, though: People who limited their eating to fewer than eight hours per day had less lean muscle mass than those who ate for 12 to 16 hours. Low lean muscle mass has been linked to a higher risk of cardiovascular death.

Cardiovascular and nutrition experts who were not involved in the analysis offered several theories about what might explain the results.

Dr. Benjamin Horne, a research professor at Intermountain Health in Salt Lake City, said fasting can increase stress hormones such as cortisol and adrenaline, since the body doesn’t know when to expect food next and goes into survival mode. That added stress may raise the short-term risk of heart problems among vulnerable groups, he said, particularly elderly people or those with chronic health conditions.

Horne’s research has shown that fasting twice a week for four weeks, then once a week for 22 weeks may increase a person’s risk of dying after one year but decrease their 10-year risk of chronic disease.

“In the long term, what it does is reduces those risk factors for heart disease and reduces the risk factors for diabetes and so forth — but in the short term, while you’re actually doing it, your body is in a state where it’s at a higher risk of having problems,” he said.

Even so, Horne added, the analysis “doesn’t change my perspective that there are definite benefits from fasting, but it’s a cautionary tale that we need to be aware that there are definite, potentially major, adverse effects.”

Intermittent fasting gained popularity about a decade ago, when the 5:2 diet was touted as a weight loss strategy in the U.K. In the years to follow, several celebrities espoused the benefits of an eight-hour eating window for weight loss, while some Silicon Valley tech workers believed that extreme periods of fasting boosted productivity. Some studies have also suggested that intermittent fasting might help extend people’s lifespans by warding off disease.

However, a lot of early research on intermittent fasting involved animals. In the last seven years or so, various clinical trials have investigated potential benefits for humans, including for heart health.

“The purpose of intermittent fasting is to cut calories, lose weight,” said Penny Kris-Etherton, emeritus professor of nutritional sciences at Penn State University and a member of the American Heart Association nutrition committee. “It’s really how intermittent fasting is implemented that’s going to explain a lot of the benefits or adverse associations.”

Dr. Francisco Lopez-Jimenez, a cardiologist at Mayo Clinic, said the timing of when people eat may influence the effects they see.

“I haven’t met a single person or patient that has been practicing intermittent fasting by skipping dinner,” he said, noting that people more often skip breakfast, a schedule associated with an increased risk of heart disease and death.

The new research comes with limitations: It relies on people’s memories of what they consumed over a 24-hour period and doesn’t consider the nutritional quality of the food they ate or how many calories they consumed during an eating window.

So some experts found the analysis too narrow.

“It’s a retrospective study looking at two days’ worth of data, and drawing some very big conclusions from a very limited snapshot into a person’s lifestyle habits,” said Dr. Pam Taub, a cardiologist at UC San Diego Health.

Taub said her patients have seen “incredible benefits” from fasting regimens.

“I would continue doing it,” she said. “For people that do intermittent fasting, their individual results speak for themselves. Most people that do intermittent fasting, the reason they continue it is they see a decrease in their weight. They see a decrease in blood pressure. They see an improvement in their LDL cholesterol.”

Kris-Etherton, however, urged caution: “Maybe consider a pause in intermittent fasting until we have more information or until the results of the study can be better explained,” she said.
Please, The Science begs of you, please, you must eat. Eat constantly, do it for health. Do it for The Science.

Btw, I haven't even read the study yet but I can assure you it took 0 account for lifestyle (smoking, alcohol) or other habits. We'll see though
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post 1699426413 03-19-2024, 12:50 PM
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I never got into it. I pretty much eat three meals a day, and in between those meals, I'll have a protein drink.
post 1699426463 03-19-2024, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted By JUSA
Intermittent fasting linked to higher risk of cardiovascular death, research suggests
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heart...ath-rcna143853



Please, The Science begs of you, please, you must eat. Eat constantly, do it for health. Do it for The Science.

Btw, I haven't even read the study yet but I can assure you it took 0 account for lifestyle (smoking, alcohol) or other habits. We'll see though
The biggest issue with this, as with many such studies, will be self selection. Who decides to do IF? What other factors do they have in common etc They might, for example, have higher levels of stimulant use than folks who don't do IF.

It's like when they study the effect of saunas. People who use saunas are more likely to be physically fit and active than those who don't, which skews any data.

They aren't setting up test and control groups, but relying on survey/questionaire responses without accounting for myriad influencing variables.

As a young guy, I wrote a joke study called "ketchup makes you fat". If you analyse average ketchup consumption and compare it to BMI, you will see a correlation between higher ketchup consumption and higher BMI.

The higher BMI is of course down to them eating lots more fries, burgers etc, but that data was excluded from the study. I just looked at two variables: ketchup and BMI.
Screw nature; my body will do what I DAMN WELL tell it to do!

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post 1699426513 03-19-2024, 12:52 PM
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There aren't enough details to form an opinion on the study. Conference abstracts can have tight word limits, so that not a big deal. But, putting out a press release without key info is pretty silly.
post 1699426733 03-19-2024, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.
There aren't enough details to form an opinion on the study.
Dude, what? I'm sorry, you are Johnny On The Spot to shoot down and crush any, and every, study that even hints at the vaccines being ineffective or dangerous... but here, this study which just screams bullchit and horrible, you're unsure of? No control groups, observational, limited timeframe, etc?? How could it even be worse is the question.

(note: do not fret, you can still do IF even if you are vaccinated, they are not mutually exclusive)
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post 1699426873 03-19-2024, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted By JUSA
Dude, what? I'm sorry, you are Johnny On The Spot to shoot down and crush any, and every, study that even hints at the vaccines being ineffective or dangerous... but here, this study which just screams bullchit and horrible, you're unsure of? No control groups, observational, limited timeframe, etc?? How could it even be worse is the question.

(note: do not fret, you can still do IF even if you are vaccinated, they are not mutually exclusive)
Huh?

I've been doing IF for ~12 years.

There is a "control" group, people who didn't do IF

But, we don't know why the two reporting days were chosen; there's no demographic info about the two groups; there are zero detail regarding the analysis.

I find it challenging to form an opinion without key information. But, everybody's different.
post 1699426933 03-19-2024, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn
I never got into it. I pretty much eat three meals a day, and in between those meals, I'll have a protein drink.
I did IF as a kid (poverty crew) and into my early 20s. I eat the same as you now and have much better results in terms of energy levels, enjoyment (I hate being too full & don't like stuffing my face like a fat chit), & diet quality (easier to eat healthier). IF is overrated IMO.
Originally Posted By DuracellBunny
The biggest issue with this, as with many such studies, will be self selection. Who decides to do IF? What other factors do they have in common etc

It's like when they study the effect of saunas. People who use saunas are more likely to be physically fit and active than those who don't, which skews any data.

They aren't setting up test and control groups, but relying on survey/questionaire responses without accounting for myriad influencing variables.
Obviously this. IF is a diet fad & people at risk for CVD are more likely to ty the latest trend.
Originally Posted By J.L.C.
There aren't enough details to form an opinion on the study. Conference abstracts can have tight word limits, so that not a big deal. But, putting out a press release without key info is pretty silly.
Fake news gon fake news
post 1699427243 03-19-2024, 01:22 PM
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All done so people can hop onto ozempic or wegovy
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post 1699427303 03-19-2024, 01:23 PM
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"Because it relied in part on forms that required patients to recall what they ate over two days, scientists said there was room for potential inaccuracies."

"The fasting patients were more likely to be younger men with ahigher BMI and food insecurity, he said by email."

I love this one:
"It wasn’t clear how long the patients continued the intermittent fasting, though the researchers assumed they kept it up, according to Zhong."


https://fortune.com/well/2024/03/18/...cent-risk/amp/



lololololololol. Study done by high school students? Zero science.
Yeah Buddyyy! Light weight! Light weight baby!!!!
post 1699427543 03-19-2024, 01:28 PM
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I mean everybody "IF"s while they're sleeping.
post 1699427643 03-19-2024, 01:30 PM
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yeah, it's not like for 100,000's of years man has been eating only once a day and didn't know when their next meal was going to be.

Was that research funded by a food manufacturers? LOL! Eating constantly is why we have health issues and an obesity epidemic.
Forever alone? Attraction and keeping the girl chasing you - http://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=131498033

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post 1699428683 03-19-2024, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted By pondus_levo
yeah, it's not like for 100,000's of years man has been eating only once a day and didn't know when their next meal was going to be.

Was that research funded by a food manufacturers? LOL! Eating constantly is why we have health issues and an obesity epidemic.
Hey you!! Stop talking and fill your gullet with food instead!!! Then take Ozempic so most of the weight you lose is muscle and bone density.

Calling it a study is a massive stretch. See post #9.
Yeah Buddyyy! Light weight! Light weight baby!!!!
post 1699429033 03-19-2024, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted By frankdtank20
"Because it relied in part on forms that required patients to recall what they ate over two days, scientists said there was room for potential inaccuracies."

"The fasting patients were more likely to be younger men with ahigher BMI and food insecurity, he said by email."

I love this one:
"It wasn’t clear how long the patients continued the intermittent fasting, though the researchers assumed they kept it up, according to Zhong."


https://fortune.com/well/2024/03/18/...cent-risk/amp/



lololololololol. Study done by high school students? Zero science.
It's a conference abstract. Great experience for kids, imo.

A media release was silly, so is a bunch of grown men chitting on something they haven't seen.
post 1699429463 03-19-2024, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.
It's a conference abstract. Great experience for kids, imo.

A media release was silly, so is a bunch of grown men chitting on something they haven't seen.
The details from the Fortune link I posted are lulzy. You aren't required to defend crap, bro.
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post 1699429693 03-19-2024, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted By pondus_levo
yeah, it's not like for 100,000's of years man has been eating only once a day and didn't know when their next meal was going to be.

Was that research funded by a food manufacturers? LOL! Eating constantly is why we have health issues and an obesity epidemic.
3 or 4 meals a day is perfectly fine. The problem isn't the timing of the meals but the quantity and quality of them.
post 1699429843 03-19-2024, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted By Barteh
The problem isn't the timing of the meals but the quantity and quality of them.
Actually it's both. Circadian rhythms.

Similarly, alternating shift work is bad for people's health even if they get the same amount of sleep each day while doing it.
Yeah Buddyyy! Light weight! Light weight baby!!!!
post 1699430013 03-19-2024, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted By frankdtank20
The details from the Fortune link I posted are lulzy. You aren't required to defend crap, bro.
Not trying to defend the work

A scientist and statistician I respect has a rule: "don't dunk on students."

While he refers to graduate students, I think the same should apply to these kids.

It's a conference abstract.

I give the kids, teachers, and parents props for the effort and involvement.

Will I cease IF based on this school project? No.
post 1699430293 03-19-2024, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.
Not trying to defend the work

A scientist and statistician I respect has a rule: "don't dunk on students."

While he refers to graduate students, I think the same should apply to these kids.

It's a conference abstract.

I give the kids, teachers, and parents props for the effort and involvement.

Will I cease IF based on this school project? No.
I understand your stance a little better now. The problem is, this junky study, which is ridiculous, is being used to send a false message to the general public.

While the problem isn't the kids, who probably did as good a job as they could, and it is the media and all the outlets broadcasting it (which is odd, a lot are -- almost in a coordinated manner), you can't hold back or take off the kid gloves simply because they're not expected to do well.

The study is sending a harmful message, it needs to be dismantled and harshly at that. Sorry to the kids behind it and their feelings, and I get the true culprits are the media outlets, but it is what it is.

EDIT: Someone asked JLC how he knew how old they were. Wait then, and I did read a little and saw no mention of them being kids, I just assumed as such as JLC said it. If not, then it's still fuk them and the study, but move it up to double fuk them and double fuk their study.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

- Arthur Schopenhauer
post 1699430343 03-19-2024, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted By JUSA
I understand your stance a little better now. The problem is, this junky study, which is ridiculous, is being used to send a false message to the general public.

While the problem isn't the kids, who probably did as good a job as they could, and it is the media and all the outlets broadcasting it (which is odd, a lot are -- almost in a coordinated manner), you can't hold back or take off the kid gloves simply because they're not expected to do well.

The study is sending a harmful message, it needs to be dismantled and harshly at that. Sorry to the kids behind it and their feelings, and I get the true culprits are the media outlets, but it is what it is.

EDIT: Someone asked JLC how he knew how old they were. Wait then, and I did read a little and saw no mention of them being kids, I just assumed as such as JLC said it. If not, then it's still fuk them and the study, but move it up to double fuk them and double fuk their study.
My criticism was of the press release, not the work I haven't seen.
Originally Posted By frankdtank20
lololololololol. Study done by high school students? Zero science.
Also, when did med school become highschool?


"Authors
Meng Chen, Sch of Public Health, Shanghai Jiao Tong Univ Sch of Med, Shanghai, China; Victor W. Zhong, Shanghai Jiao Tong Univ"

https://www.abstractsonline.com/pp8/...esentation/379

I guess I learned my lesson regarding trusting Frank

Funny how I catch the flak over his claim
post 1699430603 03-19-2024, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.
I guess I learned my lesson regarding trusting Frank

Funny how I catch the flak over his claim
Just to be clear: I wasn't flaking (?) you, I just moved my position to reflect the more murky nature as to the age/qualifications of the people behind the study. I didn't even necessarily think you were wrong, I just opened my criticism to the possibility (which was to double down on the fuk you -- of the study, not at all you).

I mean, I think you're being too easy on this study but otherwise am perfectly good with you.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

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post 1699430703 03-19-2024, 03:00 PM
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I can eat a balanced diet with 6 meals, and eat 6 bacon cheeseburgers and half a gallon of ice cream while doing IF. The study is nonsense and has no logic to it. Unless they confine these individuals and do a control study to compare, it's compete bullsh!t. They want you sick and dependent on the healthcare system, so of course anything that has positive potential on the human body will be demonized, since it's a threat to the money pit. Why don't they go after Ramadan next? They won't, because there's thousands of years of experience with too many positives and it's done by people who have principles and honor. (Super Ded fkn Srs)
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Originally Posted By JUSA
Just to be clear: I wasn't flaking (?) you, I just moved my position to reflect the more murky nature as to the age/qualifications of the people behind the study. I didn't even necessarily think you were wrong, I just opened my criticism to the possibility (which was to double down on the fuk you -- of the study, not at all you).

I mean, I think you're being too easy on this study but otherwise am perfectly good with you.
Reviewing abstracts for conferences posters or short talks is distinct from reviewing a full manuscript or publication. Different criteria, word limits, expectations, etc.
post 1699430903 03-19-2024, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted By gmenfan40
Why don't they go after Ramadan next? They won't, because there's thousands of years of experience with too many positives and it's done by people who have principles and honor. (Super Ded fkn Srs)
Also, and I say this with no particular malice towards Islam and also thinking Ramadan (going on now!) is very cool, but they also won't because they don't want to appear as Islamaphbobic, ie. they're whatever the word for fearing woke backlash is.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

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post 1699432523 03-19-2024, 04:01 PM
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This hasn't aired yet but this guy is generally pretty good and looks like he read the abstract*. I don't really need to spend a lot of time hearing how bad this abstract* is, but in case someone is on the the fence or would, he's probably going to do just that.

* thank you JLC
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

- Arthur Schopenhauer
post 1699432593 03-19-2024, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted By JUSA
This hasn't aired yet but this guy is generally pretty good and looks like he read the study. I don't really need to spend a lot of time hearing how bad this study is, but in case someone is on the the fence or would, he's probably going to do just that.
There is no study to read. It is a conference abstract, that's all.

It's not published, not a pre-print. Only an abstract for a presentation.

https://www.abstractsonline.com/pp8/...esentation/379
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Original Ruckus
post 1699435573 03-19-2024, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted By gmenfan40
I can eat a balanced diet with 6 meals, and eat 6 bacon cheeseburgers and half a gallon of ice cream while doing IF. The study is nonsense and has no logic to it. Unless they confine these individuals and do a control study to compare, it's compete bullsh!t. They want you sick and dependent on the healthcare system, so of course anything that has positive potential on the human body will be demonized, since it's a threat to the money pit. Why don't they go after Ramadan next? They won't, because there's thousands of years of experience with too many positives and it's done by people who have principles and honor. (Super Ded fkn Srs)
Yup. Anecdotally, all the fattest dudes I know did some version of "IF" where they skipped breakfast, lunch, or both & then binged at night. That doesn't mean IF causes heart disease. IF isn't magical like some of the dumbass broscientists on here claim either.

This study did nothing to control for anything and was of course done to generate funding and clickbait.
post 1699436343 03-19-2024, 05:56 PM
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#28
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is intermittent fisting still safe though?


...asking for a friend...
🟩🟩🟩🟩 I am Jack's complete lack of surprise. 🟩🟩🟩🟩
post 1699437233 03-19-2024, 06:26 PM
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#29
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Originally Posted By frankdtank20
"Because it relied in part on forms that required patients to recall what they ate over two days, scientists said there was room for potential inaccuracies."

"The fasting patients were more likely to be younger men with ahigher BMI and food insecurity, he said by email."

I love this one:
"It wasn’t clear how long the patients continued the intermittent fasting, though the researchers assumed they kept it up, according to Zhong."


https://fortune.com/well/2024/03/18/...cent-risk/amp/



lololololololol. Study done by high school students? Zero science.
Why would you have high school students do IF????
post 1699437323 03-19-2024, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted By gmenfan40
I can eat a balanced diet with 6 meals, and eat 6 bacon cheeseburgers and half a gallon of ice cream while doing IF. The study is nonsense and has no logic to it. Unless they confine these individuals and do a control study to compare, it's compete bullsh!t. They want you sick and dependent on the healthcare system, so of course anything that has positive potential on the human body will be demonized, since it's a threat to the money pit. Why don't they go after Ramadan next? They won't, because there's thousands of years of experience with too many positives and it's done by people who have principles and honor. (Super Ded fkn Srs)
Should a pregnant woman fast?

And you're claiming that going without food and water, when it's hot as **** outside, is beneficial?

Would you want a surgeon to operate on you, who hasn't eaten, or drank any water for 8 hrs?
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