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Forum » A Date Which Will Live in Infamy
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Thread: A Date Which Will Live in Infamy

post 1474160451 12-07-2016, 01:48 PM
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By the way if anyone's interested in learning more about WW2 you should watch The World at War (1973). It's the best documentary ever imo, a lot of the episodes are on Youtube and it has loads of original footage, and was made at a time the war was still fresh in peoples memory.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071075/
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post 1474161121 12-07-2016, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted By Ronnie87⏩
Jeez don't get me started on the French. WW2 is a complete embarrassment for them and rightly so. The French Army should've kept Hitler in check, instead they almost couldn't wait to surrender. The Greeks had their civilians coming out with pitch forks to fight German paratroopers, the French couldn't even get their Army out of the Maginot line.
As much as I like to give the French a hard time (and at least they did show their appreciation for what we did for them post WWII) they lost a lot of men at Maginot line which was set up to fight the last war (WWI) with static front lines. The blitzkrieg style warfare the Germans used was something they had no ability to counter and were totally not prepared for, and if not for that channel and the far superior Navy of the Brits, would have done the same. No one could stop them and no one did until the earth itself got in their way and logistical realities of such fast moving warfare caused issues and Hitler started making really stupid mistakes. Not uncommon, Hitler's own hubris was the major reason for their demise. Had he not attacked Russia and listened to his excellent military staff, things might have turned out very differently.

Madmen are more often than not the cause of their own downfall sooner or later.
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post 1474161251 12-07-2016, 01:54 PM
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Whenever you ask someone about WWII the always bring up Hitler and how Hitler did this and that. People don't realize that Stalin was just as bad, if not worse then hitler. Hitler treated all non Germans as trash and disposable. Though the Germany Jews were also killed, he gave them a chance to leave at least. Stalin had no indentifiable enemy cause he'd kill anybody regardless of nationality, religion or political party. Stalin killed 30 thousand Russian officers and military members before WWII even started. That ended up hurting him because he replaced them with random communist members that didn't have the knowledge and training that the dead solldiers had.

Hitler was actually had a brilliant military mind. He was extremely strong with speeches and public speaking. His greed and power were ultimately his downfall. If he didn't try to take Russia on in the winter he might have completely taken Europe. The blitzkrieg was to much for the allies and country by country was falling to the swift and precise Germany army. If the USA didn't enter the war when they did, Britain would have fallen like every other European country did under hitler.
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post 1474161411 12-07-2016, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted By Ronnie87⏩
Jeez don't get me started on the French. WW2 is a complete embarrassment for them and rightly so. The French Army should've kept Hitler in check, instead they almost couldn't wait to surrender. The Greeks had their civilians coming out with pitch forks to fight German paratroopers, the French couldn't even get their Army out of the Maginot line.
I don't think the French are cowards, just look to their sacrifices during WWI. If anything they are a marshal nation just like the germans, but their defeat just showed the contrast between the mentalities of the germans and the french at the time.

The French did not want to fight another war, just 20 years previously, world war one was fought on their soil and the devastation in both human lives and the landscape was unimaginable. The media, the people, the government, none of them wanted war. And when there is no will, the preparations are never so extensive.

In contrast to Germany, which was angry and bitter after what they felt were cruel and unjust terms forced on them by the treaty of Versailles. Hitler and his propaganda had the people whipped up into a frenzy, they wanted war. The political and popular will was there for the military to be a priority.
I remember hearing a testimony in a documentary once of a german returning from britain to germany in 1939, just after Poland had rejected hitlers terms for annexation of Danzig etc. He said that he could not believe the hysteria. Everyone was whipped up into a war mongering frenzy and the whole country was mad.
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post 1474161551 12-07-2016, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted By BrahJamie⏩
Any links for the documentary for an irish brah?
Is linked in the very OP you copied brah.
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post 1474161961 12-07-2016, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted By WillBrink⏩
As much as I like to give the French a hard time (and at least they did show their appreciation for what we did for them post WWII) they lost a lot of men at Maginot line which was set up to fight the last war (WWI) with static front lines. The blitzkrieg style warfare the Germans used was something they had no ability to counter and were totally not prepared for, and if not for that channel and the far superior Navy of the Brits, would have done the same. No one could stop them and no one did until the earth itself got in their way and logistical realities of such fast moving warfare caused issues and Hitler started making really stupid mistakes. Not uncommon, Hitler's own hubris was the major reason for their demise. Had he not attacked Russia and listened to his excellent military staff, things might have turned out very differently.

Madmen are more often than not the cause of their own downfall sooner or later.
They didn't modernise though, that's my issue. In WW1 tanks were established as being the future of warfare along with planes, but the French were still using mounted cavalry at the outbreak of WW2. Their leaders were also appalling during the Battle of France, they put an old man in charge when their country was being over run and he wouldn't even have a radio installed in his HQ. He was actually getting updates about potential attacks after the attacks had already happened. Charles de Gaulle was good though and the French La Resistanc did a lot of good things in helping the Allies
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post 1474162461 12-07-2016, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted By Ronnie87⏩
They didn't modernise though, that's my issue. In WW1 tanks were established as being the future of warfare along with planes, but the French were still using mounted cavalry at the outbreak of WW2. Their leaders were also appalling during the Battle of France, they put an old man in charge when their country was being over run and he wouldn't even have a radio installed in his HQ. He was actually getting updates about potential attacks after the attacks had already happened. Charles de Gaulle was good though and the French La Resistanc did a lot of good things in helping the Allies
That's cuz the French think they know better than everyone else, cuz well, they're better than everyone else. Those wacky French.
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post 1474163321 12-07-2016, 02:06 PM
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Lets be honest, how the hell did the Germans fight almost the entire world twice in 50 years, lose badly both times, and still are one of the strongest economies going around. Absolutely insane.
post 1474163441 12-07-2016, 02:07 PM
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Fuking love WWII history
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post 1474163801 12-07-2016, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted By TheFlexatorium⏩
Lets be honest, how the hell did the Germans fight almost the entire world twice in 50 years, lose badly both times, and still are one of the strongest economies going around. Absolutely insane.
I don't think WWII was a bad lose as far as the outcome. Germany were doing things that the generals thought were impossible. They planned on killing hitler because they thought that the French/Brits were going to destroy them but hitler kept winning more and more battles and defeating country after country. If hitler had done some things a bit different he could have won the war

Eh I guess it was. They lost a chitload of young men and the place was a fuking mess at the end of the war.
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post 1474164891 12-07-2016, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted By TheFlexatorium⏩
Lets be honest, how the hell did the Germans fight almost the entire world twice in 50 years, lose badly both times, and still are one of the strongest economies going around. Absolutely insane.
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post 1474165001 12-07-2016, 02:16 PM
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^ Lol it all makes sense now
post 1474166671 12-07-2016, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted By Jibt3ch⏩
I don't think WWII was a bad lose as far as the outcome. Germany were doing things that the generals thought were impossible. They planned on killing hitler because they thought that the French/Brits were going to destroy them but hitler kept winning more and more battles and defeating country after country. If hitler had done some things a bit different he could have won the war

Eh I guess it was. They lost a chitload of young men and the place was a fuking mess at the end of the war.
It's generally agreed Crete lost them the war. That delay gave the Allies the time they needed to respond. LOL at anyone crying about what happened to Japan. Japan had it coming. Do a little reading and you'll figure that out fast.
post 1474168431 12-07-2016, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted By Jibt3ch⏩
I don't think WWII was a bad lose as far as the outcome. Germany were doing things that the generals thought were impossible. They planned on killing hitler because they thought that the French/Brits were going to destroy them but hitler kept winning more and more battles and defeating country after country. If hitler had done some things a bit different he could have won the war

Eh I guess it was. They lost a chitload of young men and the place was a fuking mess at the end of the war.
The German high command knew that war was going against them from 1943 onwards. By 1944, the german people knew that the war was going badly and they would likely lose.

Hitler was a great speaker and genius at politics, but ask Mannstein, Rommel, Guderian or the 300,000 men of the german 6th army in Stalingrad whether he was a good military commander. He wasn't, he just pointed at the success of the attack through the ardennes as evidence of his military genius.

Germany lost 50% of men aged 20 to 40, was economically devastated, lost 25% of it's territory, 12 million germans were expelled from former german lands handed over to poland and russia and half of the country had to live through 45 years of misery and poverty forced on them by the soviet union. And it was mainly due to the actions of a single massive kunt, Hitler.
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post 1474170951 12-07-2016, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted By Ronnie87⏩
In defeating Germany we were as important as America for what I outlined above. We did not do as much heavy lifting as America, we didn't lose as many men as Russia, but we did lose around the same as the US which should tell you something. Germany could've possibly defeated Russia if there was no Western Front to defend, no North Africa campaign to fight, no opposition to their Navy, etc. The US basically beat Japan on their own though, so all credit there. General MacArthur was a beast.
just lol

WE came over because you guys where NOT handling your business. Yes Japan's attack forced our hand because we let everyone else handle their chit. Nazis had half of France along with Italy. You couldn't handle Italy so we came over and retook Italy for you, we retook France for you we then went and push the battlefield forward because your country couldn't. Of course we lost more because we didn't pussy foot around and charged forward during your tea time. Our motto then and motto now is "We kill bad people and break their chit". I understand you have a patriotic stance with the UK and superior it is. But, I hate to break it to ya; we did take 13 colonies from your Empire in the 1700s (with the support of France at the end how almost backed GB).

Ultimately everyone came together and defeated evil and good prevailed.
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post 1474174961 12-07-2016, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted By NotBigEnough206⏩
I remember reading someplace that the Japanese did not have much of an option.
The US put a blockade/embargo on them, sank their ships coming in to Japan with Subs that carried steel etc.
The Japanese had no way out but to attack the country that was starving them out.

Also was watching a documentary the other day, Mazda based out of Hiroshima, is now driven all over the USA.
While yet you look at Detroit.
So the USA bombed Japan with Atomic weapons, destroyed two cities completely.
But economically Japan did the same to Detroit, some of the places look like they were bombed.

History is crazy brahs.
Either way though, RIP to the souls lost on that day.
yeah. that wasn't happening.
post 1474179461 12-07-2016, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted By meenman83⏩
just lol

WE came over because you guys where NOT handling your business. Yes Japan's attack forced our hand because we let everyone else handle their chit. Nazis had half of France along with Italy. You couldn't handle Italy so we came over and retook Italy for you, we retook France for you we then went and push the battlefield forward because your country couldn't. Of course we lost more because we didn't pussy foot around and charged forward during your tea time. Our motto then and motto now is "We kill bad people and break their chit". I understand you have a patriotic stance with the UK and superior it is. But, I hate to break it to ya; we did take 13 colonies from your Empire in the 1700s (with the support of France at the end how almost backed GB).

Ultimately everyone came together and defeated evil and good prevailed.
You do know the US lost just over the total amount we did but that includes the Pacific theatre, so we lost only slightly fewer whilst fighting mostly Germany. We also landed in Italy with you. 50% of the troops that took part in the French D-Day landings were British, though America unfortunately landed on a few very well defended beaches, we got the easier time there. And actually the US did pussy foot around, your population had no will to fight in Europe or Asia. Roosevelt was one of the few who wanted the war.

I'm not going to get into the American war of independence as that's totally off topic and ancient history. You only bring it up because it is a huge part of your history, we fought literally dozens of wars each decade back then and won most of them, that's why we were a super power for 150 years after you became a country.
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post 1474183301 12-07-2016, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted By tvr123⏩
The German high command knew that war was going against them from 1943 onwards. By 1944, the german people knew that the war was going badly and they would likely lose.

Hitler was a great speaker and genius at politics, but ask Mannstein, Rommel, Guderian or the 300,000 men of the german 6th army in Stalingrad whether he was a good military commander. He wasn't, he just pointed at the success of the attack through the ardennes as evidence of his military genius.

Germany lost 50% of men aged 20 to 40, was economically devastated, lost 25% of it's territory, 12 million germans were expelled from former german lands handed over to poland and russia and half of the country had to live through 45 years of misery and poverty forced on them by the soviet union. And it was mainly due to the actions of a single massive kunt, Hitler.
Ya I dunno what I was thinking. Towards the end most had seen it imploding. Regardless though the things that hitler did were astonishing. He took a country like Germany that was in the middle of extremely hard times with no jobs or work and turned them into a world power that seemed unstoppable. Unfortunately it ended with Germany being back to where it was when ww1 ended.

WWII is so interesting to me. It was such a crazy time and the chain of events that led up to the war were so fascinating. Hitler was a selfish, sociopathic madman but what he accomplished before the USA entered the war was considered impossible. Despite all his generals telling him it was impossible to take on all of Europe and win, he continues with his plans and wins massive ground and countries. Of course you can't speak anything about hitler without being a racist even though he was such a unique person and possibly the biggest person in the 20th century
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post 1474241851 12-08-2016, 02:16 AM
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Just wanted to log in and tell almost all of you in this thread thank you for sharing your knowledge, this is seriously one of the best threads I've read on the misc for a long time (srs) this place is changing. As we (the posters) grow older you start getting real knowledge here. Can anyone recommend entertaining documentaries on WWII even WWI? Hopefully something I can pull up on a Netflix or stream over Youtube.

Loved reading this. Thanks brahs.

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post 1474241981 12-08-2016, 02:22 AM
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People will believe what the victors tell them happened
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post 1474243551 12-08-2016, 03:14 AM
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Originally Posted By Hadtodoit⏩
Just wanted to log in and tell almost all of you in this thread thank you for sharing your knowledge, this is seriously one of the best threads I've read on the misc for a long time (srs) this place is changing. As we (the posters) grow older you start getting real knowledge here. Can anyone recommend entertaining documentaries on WWII even WWI? Hopefully something I can pull up on a Netflix or stream over Youtube.

Loved reading this. Thanks brahs.

5 stars and handed out reps.
The World at War 1973 is on Youtube. 26 part documentary that covers before the outbreak of the war to the end of the war, one of the highest rated documentaries ever
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post 1474252951 12-08-2016, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted By Hadtodoit⏩
Just wanted to log in and tell almost all of you in this thread thank you for sharing your knowledge, this is seriously one of the best threads I've read on the misc for a long time (srs) this place is changing. As we (the posters) grow older you start getting real knowledge here. Can anyone recommend entertaining documentaries on WWII even WWI? Hopefully something I can pull up on a Netflix or stream over Youtube.

Loved reading this. Thanks brahs.

5 stars and handed out reps.
My current favorite by far is WWII in HD:

http://www.history.com/shows/wwii-in-hd/about

Really well done.
Originally Posted By FailedPotential⏩
People will believe what the victors tell them happened
Wow, you added so much to this thread. Derp
Originally Posted By Ronnie87⏩
The World at War 1973 is on Youtube. 26 part documentary that covers before the outbreak of the war to the end of the war, one of the highest rated documentaries ever
I grew up watching that series and it is a classic and set the standard for all that followed. That opening music still haunts me brah.
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