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Arizona PD execute man in wheelchair (bodycam)
12-02-2021, 07:39 PM
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#91
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Originally Posted By monster0ultra⏩
as long as he's not a cop anymore - good riddanceYou don't know that yet.
There's a good chance the cop could get full retirement paid for by the taxpayers and move to the Philippines to be a ped0phile.
There's a good chance the cop could get full retirement paid for by the taxpayers and move to the Philippines to be a ped0phile.
let the Thai ladyboys deal with him
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12-02-2021, 07:43 PM
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#92
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That video is pretty bad. If he did in fact have a knife, you have a textbook lawful but awful shoot on your hands. Idk when officers use deadly force the use of force board and eventually the courts are gonna look at Graham v. Connor.
The Severity of the Crime. ...
The Immediacy of the Threat. ...
Actively Resisting Arrest. ...
Attempting to Evade Arrest by Flight
Regarding the second prong, nobodies life was in immediate jeopardy of immediate bodily harm or death based on this video. The subjects physical condition will also be taken into consideration. They had two officers on scene and the guy in the power chair wasn't actively trying to assault anyone at this point.
The second officer could've kept lethal coverage while the primary attempts to taze or even OC spray the guy. I'm a LEO so I will say that's def not how I'd have went about the situation. Someone else in the thread mentioned kicking over his wheelchair.
Idk how heavy those things are but if he was truly unable to walk tipping him over would be a very easy solution to this situation.
I expect the officers that shot to face charges, yikes.
The Severity of the Crime. ...
The Immediacy of the Threat. ...
Actively Resisting Arrest. ...
Attempting to Evade Arrest by Flight
Regarding the second prong, nobodies life was in immediate jeopardy of immediate bodily harm or death based on this video. The subjects physical condition will also be taken into consideration. They had two officers on scene and the guy in the power chair wasn't actively trying to assault anyone at this point.
The second officer could've kept lethal coverage while the primary attempts to taze or even OC spray the guy. I'm a LEO so I will say that's def not how I'd have went about the situation. Someone else in the thread mentioned kicking over his wheelchair.
Idk how heavy those things are but if he was truly unable to walk tipping him over would be a very easy solution to this situation.
I expect the officers that shot to face charges, yikes.
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12-02-2021, 07:47 PM
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#93
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Originally Posted By CherryPopinski⏩
From the second angle, you see there's an employee at the entrance. I'm guessing the cop spotted them and that's when he decided to murk the guy.That video is pretty bad. If he did in fact have a knife, you have a textbook lawful but awful shoot on your hands. Idk when officers use deadly force the use of force board and eventually the courts are gonna look at Graham v. Connor.
The Severity of the Crime. ...
The Immediacy of the Threat. ...
Actively Resisting Arrest. ...
Attempting to Evade Arrest by Flight
Regarding the second prong, nobodies life was in immediate jeopardy of immediate bodily harm or death based on this video. The subjects physical condition will also be taken into consideration. They had two officers on scene and the guy in the power chair wasn't actively trying to assault anyone at this point.
The second officer could've kept lethal coverage while the primary attempts to taze or even OC spray the guy. I'm a LEO so I will say that's def not how I'd have went about the situation. Someone else in the thread mentioned kicking over his wheelchair.
Idk how heavy those things are but if he was truly unable to walk tipping him over would be a very easy solution to this situation.
I expect the officers that shot to face charges, yikes.
The Severity of the Crime. ...
The Immediacy of the Threat. ...
Actively Resisting Arrest. ...
Attempting to Evade Arrest by Flight
Regarding the second prong, nobodies life was in immediate jeopardy of immediate bodily harm or death based on this video. The subjects physical condition will also be taken into consideration. They had two officers on scene and the guy in the power chair wasn't actively trying to assault anyone at this point.
The second officer could've kept lethal coverage while the primary attempts to taze or even OC spray the guy. I'm a LEO so I will say that's def not how I'd have went about the situation. Someone else in the thread mentioned kicking over his wheelchair.
Idk how heavy those things are but if he was truly unable to walk tipping him over would be a very easy solution to this situation.
I expect the officers that shot to face charges, yikes.
Context matters and I think anyone can understand that a knife-wielder in a wheelchair is less deadly than a knife-wielder who isn't disabled. I just had to mention that because he ended up dead on the concrete, the cop may as well tried to Leonidas kick his wheelchair over. Possible head injury, I guess but less lethal than 8 shots in the back.
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12-02-2021, 07:50 PM
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#94
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Post deleted by user
Original Ruckus
12-03-2021, 01:20 AM
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#95
Originally Posted By Jasonw1178⏩
Yea his body language was crazy, gun just slowly going limp like he knew what a **** up that was.The other cop (one with the cam) you could just tell he was like "what the actual fuk" and in shock. Like his gun went down then the shots started going off so you knew it wasn't right.
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12-03-2021, 01:45 AM
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#96
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Ban wheelchairs
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12-03-2021, 01:49 AM
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#97
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As a former cop, I'd just have kicked his stupid scooter over.
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12-03-2021, 02:16 AM
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#98
12-03-2021, 09:01 AM
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#99
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Originally Posted By CherryPopinski⏩
yeah just because it's lawful doesn't make it right, which is a key point of my trolling lmaoThat video is pretty bad. If he did in fact have a knife, you have a textbook lawful but awful shoot on your hands. Idk when officers use deadly force the use of force board and eventually the courts are gonna look at Graham v. Connor.
The Severity of the Crime. ...
The Immediacy of the Threat. ...
Actively Resisting Arrest. ...
Attempting to Evade Arrest by Flight
Regarding the second prong, nobodies life was in immediate jeopardy of immediate bodily harm or death based on this video. The subjects physical condition will also be taken into consideration. They had two officers on scene and the guy in the power chair wasn't actively trying to assault anyone at this point.
The second officer could've kept lethal coverage while the primary attempts to taze or even OC spray the guy. I'm a LEO so I will say that's def not how I'd have went about the situation. Someone else in the thread mentioned kicking over his wheelchair.
Idk how heavy those things are but if he was truly unable to walk tipping him over would be a very easy solution to this situation.
I expect the officers that shot to face charges, yikes.
The Severity of the Crime. ...
The Immediacy of the Threat. ...
Actively Resisting Arrest. ...
Attempting to Evade Arrest by Flight
Regarding the second prong, nobodies life was in immediate jeopardy of immediate bodily harm or death based on this video. The subjects physical condition will also be taken into consideration. They had two officers on scene and the guy in the power chair wasn't actively trying to assault anyone at this point.
The second officer could've kept lethal coverage while the primary attempts to taze or even OC spray the guy. I'm a LEO so I will say that's def not how I'd have went about the situation. Someone else in the thread mentioned kicking over his wheelchair.
Idk how heavy those things are but if he was truly unable to walk tipping him over would be a very easy solution to this situation.
I expect the officers that shot to face charges, yikes.
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12-03-2021, 09:30 AM
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#100
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This is why full story and context matters.
1. Guy had a knife which can kill and threatens to kill people.
2. Says he will only be stopped if he is shot.
3. He has been in prison before for attempted murder, so he is very capable of his threat. Being on a wheelchair, he probably don’t give a fk.
Forget that guy is in a wheelchair and look at the above 3 things and ask yourself if you still think the cop was wrong.
Now there was 4 scenarios that could play out here:
1. Cops don’t do anything and criminal rolls into the shop and kills your mother. I know people are big on emphatic so imagine it’s your mother he kills because we can’t kill wheelchairs.
2. Cop attempts to stop him by holding the chair or something else (he was moving fast enough and adrenaline was shooting through the cops veins), this guy kills a good innocent cop.
3. Cop attempts to stop him physically and succeeds in restraining him without getting hurt.
4. Cop shoots him as the criminal makes a threat and tries to follow with that threat.
In scenario 1. An innocent person dies. In scenario 2. An innocent person dies. In scenario 3. A scumbag criminal dies. Only scenario 3 plays out well for everyone but it still risks innocent lives.
Nope. Cop did the right thing.
1. Guy had a knife which can kill and threatens to kill people.
2. Says he will only be stopped if he is shot.
3. He has been in prison before for attempted murder, so he is very capable of his threat. Being on a wheelchair, he probably don’t give a fk.
Forget that guy is in a wheelchair and look at the above 3 things and ask yourself if you still think the cop was wrong.
Now there was 4 scenarios that could play out here:
1. Cops don’t do anything and criminal rolls into the shop and kills your mother. I know people are big on emphatic so imagine it’s your mother he kills because we can’t kill wheelchairs.
2. Cop attempts to stop him by holding the chair or something else (he was moving fast enough and adrenaline was shooting through the cops veins), this guy kills a good innocent cop.
3. Cop attempts to stop him physically and succeeds in restraining him without getting hurt.
4. Cop shoots him as the criminal makes a threat and tries to follow with that threat.
In scenario 1. An innocent person dies. In scenario 2. An innocent person dies. In scenario 3. A scumbag criminal dies. Only scenario 3 plays out well for everyone but it still risks innocent lives.
Nope. Cop did the right thing.
12-03-2021, 09:32 AM
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#101
Originally Posted By plsmire⏩
Why was he fired thenThis is why full story and context matters.
1. Guy had a knife which can kill and threatens to kill people.
2. Says he will only be stopped if he is shot.
3. He has been in prison before for attempted murder, so he is very capable of his threat. Being on a wheelchair, he probably don’t give a fk.
Forget that guy is in a wheelchair and look at the above 3 things and ask yourself if you still think the cop was wrong.
Now there was 4 scenarios that could play out here:
1. Cops don’t do anything and criminal rolls into the shop and kills your mother. I know people are big on emphatic so imagine it’s your mother he kills because we can’t kill wheelchairs.
2. Cop attempts to stop him by holding the chair or something else (he was moving fast enough and adrenaline was shooting through the cops veins), this guy kills a good innocent cop.
3. Cop attempts to stop him physically and succeeds in restraining him without getting hurt.
4. Cop shoots him as the criminal makes a threat and tries to follow with that threat.
In scenario 1. An innocent person dies. In scenario 2. An innocent person dies. In scenario 3. A scumbag criminal dies. Only scenario 3 plays out well for everyone but it still risks innocent lives.
Nope. Cop did the right thing.
1. Guy had a knife which can kill and threatens to kill people.
2. Says he will only be stopped if he is shot.
3. He has been in prison before for attempted murder, so he is very capable of his threat. Being on a wheelchair, he probably don’t give a fk.
Forget that guy is in a wheelchair and look at the above 3 things and ask yourself if you still think the cop was wrong.
Now there was 4 scenarios that could play out here:
1. Cops don’t do anything and criminal rolls into the shop and kills your mother. I know people are big on emphatic so imagine it’s your mother he kills because we can’t kill wheelchairs.
2. Cop attempts to stop him by holding the chair or something else (he was moving fast enough and adrenaline was shooting through the cops veins), this guy kills a good innocent cop.
3. Cop attempts to stop him physically and succeeds in restraining him without getting hurt.
4. Cop shoots him as the criminal makes a threat and tries to follow with that threat.
In scenario 1. An innocent person dies. In scenario 2. An innocent person dies. In scenario 3. A scumbag criminal dies. Only scenario 3 plays out well for everyone but it still risks innocent lives.
Nope. Cop did the right thing.
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12-03-2021, 09:37 AM
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#102
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Originally Posted By plsmire⏩
Then why was he fired?This is why full story and context matters.
1. Guy had a knife which can kill and threatens to kill people.
2. Says he will only be stopped if he is shot.
3. He has been in prison before for attempted murder, so he is very capable of his threat. Being on a wheelchair, he probably don’t give a fk.
Forget that guy is in a wheelchair and look at the above 3 things and ask yourself if you still think the cop was wrong.
Now there was 4 scenarios that could play out here:
1. Cops don’t do anything and criminal rolls into the shop and kills your mother. I know people are big on emphatic so imagine it’s your mother he kills because we can’t kill wheelchairs.
2. Cop attempts to stop him by holding the chair or something else (he was moving fast enough and adrenaline was shooting through the cops veins), this guy kills a good innocent cop.
3. Cop attempts to stop him physically and succeeds in restraining him without getting hurt.
4. Cop shoots him as the criminal makes a threat and tries to follow with that threat.
In scenario 1. An innocent person dies. In scenario 2. An innocent person dies. In scenario 3. A scumbag criminal dies. Only scenario 3 plays out well for everyone but it still risks innocent lives.
Nope. Cop did the right thing.
1. Guy had a knife which can kill and threatens to kill people.
2. Says he will only be stopped if he is shot.
3. He has been in prison before for attempted murder, so he is very capable of his threat. Being on a wheelchair, he probably don’t give a fk.
Forget that guy is in a wheelchair and look at the above 3 things and ask yourself if you still think the cop was wrong.
Now there was 4 scenarios that could play out here:
1. Cops don’t do anything and criminal rolls into the shop and kills your mother. I know people are big on emphatic so imagine it’s your mother he kills because we can’t kill wheelchairs.
2. Cop attempts to stop him by holding the chair or something else (he was moving fast enough and adrenaline was shooting through the cops veins), this guy kills a good innocent cop.
3. Cop attempts to stop him physically and succeeds in restraining him without getting hurt.
4. Cop shoots him as the criminal makes a threat and tries to follow with that threat.
In scenario 1. An innocent person dies. In scenario 2. An innocent person dies. In scenario 3. A scumbag criminal dies. Only scenario 3 plays out well for everyone but it still risks innocent lives.
Nope. Cop did the right thing.
Wheelchair Guy was posing no immediate threat to anyone.
Cop had many less than lethal options available to him.
Cop chooses hurr durr license to kill option.
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12-03-2021, 09:39 AM
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#103
- BraneyGumble
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Originally Posted By plsmire⏩
If your only solution to a situation where a 60 year old almost paraplegic with a knife starts rolling away from you at 2 miles/hour on his electric scooter is unloading 9 shots into his back then maybe you shouldn't be a cop. That's literally a South Park level "It’s coming right for us" excuse. Besides the one where he claimed that he felt he couldn't use his tazer because the chair was between him and the guy...This is why full story and context matters.
1. Guy had a knife which can kill and threatens to kill people.
2. Says he will only be stopped if he is shot.
3. He has been in prison before for attempted murder, so he is very capable of his threat. Being on a wheelchair, he probably don’t give a fk.
Forget that guy is in a wheelchair and look at the above 3 things and ask yourself if you still think the cop was wrong.
1. Guy had a knife which can kill and threatens to kill people.
2. Says he will only be stopped if he is shot.
3. He has been in prison before for attempted murder, so he is very capable of his threat. Being on a wheelchair, he probably don’t give a fk.
Forget that guy is in a wheelchair and look at the above 3 things and ask yourself if you still think the cop was wrong.
He could have briskly walked up to the guy from the back and pepper him in his face and case solved. Ffs the cop could have very easily shot the store employee as well.
12-03-2021, 09:45 AM
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#104
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LMAO and then he cuffs the dead guy after he face plants? Brah these cops are out of control. Literally could have just shot the wheel chair tires out or kicked it over and he wouldnt be able to move...or the controls...there are so many ways this could have been stopped. Cop emptied his clip into the dude and shot another one for good measure. Hope he enjoys his life sentence in prison. There is zero justification for the way he handled it. Literally an execution.
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12-03-2021, 09:48 AM
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#105
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12-03-2021, 10:08 AM
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#106
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Always shoot first before handcuffing a wheelchair victim.
the older i get the more i hate cops. I never knew it until I joined the military but a huge portion of military hate law enforcement too - they're just wreckless all the time.
Shooting to kill as a cop is the absolute last action you should take. The cop tried doing literally nothing beforehand.
the older i get the more i hate cops. I never knew it until I joined the military but a huge portion of military hate law enforcement too - they're just wreckless all the time.
Originally Posted By plsmire⏩
but who was pepper spray or taser? Not to mention no warning to the employee in the direct line of fire.This is why full story and context matters.
1. Guy had a knife which can kill and threatens to kill people.
2. Says he will only be stopped if he is shot.
3. He has been in prison before for attempted murder, so he is very capable of his threat. Being on a wheelchair, he probably don’t give a fk.
Forget that guy is in a wheelchair and look at the above 3 things and ask yourself if you still think the cop was wrong.
Now there was 4 scenarios that could play out here:
1. Cops don’t do anything and criminal rolls into the shop and kills your mother. I know people are big on emphatic so imagine it’s your mother he kills because we can’t kill wheelchairs.
2. Cop attempts to stop him by holding the chair or something else (he was moving fast enough and adrenaline was shooting through the cops veins), this guy kills a good innocent cop.
3. Cop attempts to stop him physically and succeeds in restraining him without getting hurt.
4. Cop shoots him as the criminal makes a threat and tries to follow with that threat.
In scenario 1. An innocent person dies. In scenario 2. An innocent person dies. In scenario 3. A scumbag criminal dies. Only scenario 3 plays out well for everyone but it still risks innocent lives.
Nope. Cop did the right thing.
1. Guy had a knife which can kill and threatens to kill people.
2. Says he will only be stopped if he is shot.
3. He has been in prison before for attempted murder, so he is very capable of his threat. Being on a wheelchair, he probably don’t give a fk.
Forget that guy is in a wheelchair and look at the above 3 things and ask yourself if you still think the cop was wrong.
Now there was 4 scenarios that could play out here:
1. Cops don’t do anything and criminal rolls into the shop and kills your mother. I know people are big on emphatic so imagine it’s your mother he kills because we can’t kill wheelchairs.
2. Cop attempts to stop him by holding the chair or something else (he was moving fast enough and adrenaline was shooting through the cops veins), this guy kills a good innocent cop.
3. Cop attempts to stop him physically and succeeds in restraining him without getting hurt.
4. Cop shoots him as the criminal makes a threat and tries to follow with that threat.
In scenario 1. An innocent person dies. In scenario 2. An innocent person dies. In scenario 3. A scumbag criminal dies. Only scenario 3 plays out well for everyone but it still risks innocent lives.
Nope. Cop did the right thing.
Shooting to kill as a cop is the absolute last action you should take. The cop tried doing literally nothing beforehand.
12-03-2021, 10:41 AM
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#107
- AgentJBond
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As a LEO in Cancuckistan, I am aware the USA is a completely different jungle, but I will still add my 2 cents.
This was a bad shoot. Bad justification, questionable legality, and horrendously bad optics.
Don’t give me the pro-cop / Blue Lives Matter bull****. This is simply bull**** that LEOs and people with sub-100 IQs use to avoid critical thinking. Sure, the world is a safer place with this person gone, however that doesn’t mean the shooting was justified.
Was there an imminent threat to life here? Absolutely not. The cops were behind the wheelchair. He was rolling AWAY from them.
Was there people inside the store at risk? Maybe, but the guy was literally rolling away slower than an obese person walking. They could’ve yelled at people to get away with more than enough time to spare. They should’ve told that one Lowes employee to start walking.
Next, the one cop failed to consider any other options. Personally, if the subject had a knife in the parking lot and refused to drop it, I would’ve OC sprayed him before he even got to the store entrance. Better off using that stuff outside than inside to avoid collateral.
Other options that come to mind are tipping the chair over, blocking the store entrance with a shopping cart or something, taser (if I had a partner covering me since I would need to approach from front), etc.
Either way, IMO the shooting was not justified at that point in time.
ALSO, even if the shooting was justified, the one cop exhibited extremely poor fire control. This guy literally mag dumped right into subject with no consideration of collateral. Watch the overhead video again. I’m genuinely surprised the Lowes employee was not hit by stray rounds.
Bad judgement and poor tactics all around.
This was a bad shoot. Bad justification, questionable legality, and horrendously bad optics.
Don’t give me the pro-cop / Blue Lives Matter bull****. This is simply bull**** that LEOs and people with sub-100 IQs use to avoid critical thinking. Sure, the world is a safer place with this person gone, however that doesn’t mean the shooting was justified.
Was there an imminent threat to life here? Absolutely not. The cops were behind the wheelchair. He was rolling AWAY from them.
Was there people inside the store at risk? Maybe, but the guy was literally rolling away slower than an obese person walking. They could’ve yelled at people to get away with more than enough time to spare. They should’ve told that one Lowes employee to start walking.
Next, the one cop failed to consider any other options. Personally, if the subject had a knife in the parking lot and refused to drop it, I would’ve OC sprayed him before he even got to the store entrance. Better off using that stuff outside than inside to avoid collateral.
Other options that come to mind are tipping the chair over, blocking the store entrance with a shopping cart or something, taser (if I had a partner covering me since I would need to approach from front), etc.
Either way, IMO the shooting was not justified at that point in time.
ALSO, even if the shooting was justified, the one cop exhibited extremely poor fire control. This guy literally mag dumped right into subject with no consideration of collateral. Watch the overhead video again. I’m genuinely surprised the Lowes employee was not hit by stray rounds.
Bad judgement and poor tactics all around.
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12-03-2021, 11:00 AM
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#108
- rectifryer
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Originally Posted By plsmire⏩
I get it, it was technically a credible threat despite what others say. However, someone could have literally just kicked him over. The lethal option wasn't the only option, because the cops would not be in danger if they pursued other immediate, non lethal means.This is why full story and context matters.
1. Guy had a knife which can kill and threatens to kill people.
2. Says he will only be stopped if he is shot.
3. He has been in prison before for attempted murder, so he is very capable of his threat. Being on a wheelchair, he probably don’t give a fk.
Forget that guy is in a wheelchair and look at the above 3 things and ask yourself if you still think the cop was wrong.
Now there was 4 scenarios that could play out here:
1. Cops don’t do anything and criminal rolls into the shop and kills your mother. I know people are big on emphatic so imagine it’s your mother he kills because we can’t kill wheelchairs.
2. Cop attempts to stop him by holding the chair or something else (he was moving fast enough and adrenaline was shooting through the cops veins), this guy kills a good innocent cop.
3. Cop attempts to stop him physically and succeeds in restraining him without getting hurt.
4. Cop shoots him as the criminal makes a threat and tries to follow with that threat.
In scenario 1. An innocent person dies. In scenario 2. An innocent person dies. In scenario 3. A scumbag criminal dies. Only scenario 3 plays out well for everyone but it still risks innocent lives.
Nope. Cop did the right thing.
1. Guy had a knife which can kill and threatens to kill people.
2. Says he will only be stopped if he is shot.
3. He has been in prison before for attempted murder, so he is very capable of his threat. Being on a wheelchair, he probably don’t give a fk.
Forget that guy is in a wheelchair and look at the above 3 things and ask yourself if you still think the cop was wrong.
Now there was 4 scenarios that could play out here:
1. Cops don’t do anything and criminal rolls into the shop and kills your mother. I know people are big on emphatic so imagine it’s your mother he kills because we can’t kill wheelchairs.
2. Cop attempts to stop him by holding the chair or something else (he was moving fast enough and adrenaline was shooting through the cops veins), this guy kills a good innocent cop.
3. Cop attempts to stop him physically and succeeds in restraining him without getting hurt.
4. Cop shoots him as the criminal makes a threat and tries to follow with that threat.
In scenario 1. An innocent person dies. In scenario 2. An innocent person dies. In scenario 3. A scumbag criminal dies. Only scenario 3 plays out well for everyone but it still risks innocent lives.
Nope. Cop did the right thing.
spike strip is still #1 idea.
Would have been even better if the cops commandeered the store shopping scooters and chased him lmao
personally I see this situation as a win/win
Boycott foodservice industry crew
12-03-2021, 01:06 PM
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#109
- CherryPopinski
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- CherryPopinski
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Originally Posted By Jms89⏩
It’s actually protocol to cuffs suspects after being shotLMAO and then he cuffs the dead guy after he face plants? Brah these cops are out of control. Literally could have just shot the wheel chair tires out or kicked it over and he wouldnt be able to move...or the controls...there are so many ways this could have been stopped. Cop emptied his clip into the dude and shot another one for good measure. Hope he enjoys his life sentence in prison. There is zero justification for the way he handled it. Literally an execution.
No man has the right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. It is a shame for a man to grow old without seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.
-Socrates
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