Yes, but the point is that the moral aspect that veganism doesn't cause animal suffering is a falsehood as animals are killed directly and indirectly in the farming of plants for consumption.

Chocolate milk. Sorry.

That's all kind of my point. Hundreds of millions of years of evolution produced a bunch of meat/herb/nut/root/fruits/wild plants eating humans. We didn't evolve to eat a bunch of processed plant chit.

Me with my milk rn:

lactose intolerant crew, also 1 million puss cells per spoonful. nty.

I eat veganish probably more vegetarian like 4-5 days a week. Not because I really care about animal treatment or other crap vegans care about. I just think its healthier. I hunt so I eat meat I get myself. Having fish tacos for lunch from fish I caught. But rarely eat any mass farmed meat anymore.

I'm lactose too. I didn't figure it out until i was in my late teens, but the phuked up thing is my mom (who is also lactose intolerant) never figured it out until i did. Even then she refused to take the pills when eating dairy. Now she's in her 60s and has all kinds of bone density, joint issues, and stomach issues. Her doctors hadn't even figured it out in 50+ years. This is part of why i think most doctors except the top 10% are worthless and proves that memorizing tons of chit != problem solving abilities.

I've noticed the pills certainly take the horrendous stomach cramp and diarrhea away. But, they don't take the nasty pasty chits and other symptoms away.

I feel my best when I'm consuming things like nuts, vegetables, and small amounts of fish/poultry. My chits are immaculate too. Things that seriously disrupt this are dairy, foods with MSG, foods cooked in crappy oil, certain legumes, and sodas with artificial food coloring and other weird agents in them.

IMO, everyone is different to varying degrees. That's why i can't stand in-your-face vegans that think their way is the end all be all (might as well form a religion). I've simply figured out what works best for me by watching how my body feels after eating and knowing what my stool (chits) should be. Most people i know that have serious health issues think that blowing up the toilet every time is normal... (eye roll).

banned eating anything that is coined "vegan" out of spite for you fuks and your morals.

eat veggies - yes. but eat something packaged with the word vegan on it and i'm sweet. I've never been more angry at someone than when I'm arguing with a vegan. they transcend even political debates in terms of annoyance and propaganda levels.

What you're saying is vegans arbitrarily draw the line at "not eating animal products". But there are people who go farther, such as people who live off of the grid or grow their own food. You could take it to the extreme and say the most ethical thing to do would be to kill yourself.

Vegans try to eliminate animal suffering "as far as is possible and practicable". The argument being that a vegan lifestyle could work for 99.9% of people. The problem with going farther than veganism is you start to get into impractical territory. It's not practical for populations to give up their cars or grow their own food, etc.

so what's the solution op? Not eat meat? LOLOLOL

I eat Paleo.

Regarding the meat and Dairy industry; something vegans, vegetarians, and meat eaters can unite on, is being against factoring farming.

You don't have to be a vegan or veggie, to be against animal's treatment in factory farming.

Hopefully, lab grown meat is going to be a healthy option for us one day.

What he's using is an appeal to futility fallacy and I've tried explaining it to him several times but he's too much of a moron to understand it.

But thank you for taking the time to type out a more extensive reply.

It's actually hilarious that most morons can't even comprehend basic logic.

Maybe you could explain the living for 150 years to the retard further up the page ranting about humans allegedly being natural meat eaters and using appeal to nature fallacies.

https://meatonomics.com/2016/04/20/h...t-consumption/

Here's a good read for anyone who has any interest in educating themselves without getting insanely buthurt about things going against their personal beliefs.

I really don't give a **** about people who are "against factory farming" and continue to support it with their dollar. People who pay lip service to it are just pathetic cowards with no spine to actually do the right thing.

No one who doesnt believe what you already believe is gonna read what you post, because you are being kind of a dickhead.

Your refusal to eat meat doesnt mean shiit to the market sector, so your posting here all sanctimonious only makes it easier to marginalize you. You are probably doing more harm than good.

Not intended to reach those people. You either see it or you don't. You can try and try and communicate your logic and reasoning to the morons as precisely as possible and they still come at you with the same textbook nonsense and illogical arguments that carnists always use. They're just not smart enough to see it.

This is a circlejerk waste of time then.

Almond milk tastes so much better than dairy milk and doesn't torture animals to make it. I have no clue why people still drink dairy milk.

No it's not. Lots of people out there who still eat animal products are smart enough to see what's being said and think it over.

lol

Would pay 500% increase in the cost of meat/dairy for better treatment of the animals crew

Not going to happen so I'll eat it anyway crew

I'd venture to say that my lifestyle is not only healthier than a vegan lifestyle, its more practical and more animal friendly (as far as suffering and cruelty are concerned) and I eat meat on a daily basis. I've clicked every link you've posted and read everything you've said in this thread and other than eating vegan and being a condescending dick to people I can't tell that you contribute in any other way to the well being of the animals you believe you so heroically defend.

Just suppose everybody converted to a vegan lifestyle tomorrow (as you seem to imply we should) what do you suppose would happen to 1. food production animals and 2. the creatures that your lifestyle causes to perish? Have you ever seen what starving and neglected cattle look like? I have, its gruesome and not something I'd ever wish any creature, whether it be man or beast, to have to go through. You are so naive to the entire concept of raising animals its absolutely absurd. What do you think would happen to all the cattle, pigs, chickens, sheep, goats, etc if even half the country (USA) adopted a vegan lifestyle? Or is that not something you think about because it doesn't fit your holier than thou vegan agenda? There is something to be said about being open to other people's beliefs and researching them accordingly, then there are people like you. How am I not surprised a vegan miscer with the username "thebrainiac" would have a false sense of superiority?

Bottom line-I raise cattle and horses for a living. My cattle live a stress free life and my horses live a life you could only dream of. I am a steward of the land, I live in balance with not just my animals but all plant and animal life on my ranch to keep the balance required of a good eco system. I butcher my own meat, I grow my own vegetables, not because its "non GMO" or "organic" or any other stupid ass catch phrase people like you love to use but rather I do it because I believe its the healthiest lifestyle there is. I don't take from the land what I can't give back and I don't make any creature suffer needlessly or any more often than absolutely necessary. I spend my summers doctoring sick cattle that would otherwise die a slow and painful death, how does that compare to your contribution to the animal world of eating oats and weeds on a daily basis? I eat 2 lbs of lean red meat a day and I guarantee my lab work is better than yours, my test levels are higher, my lifts are WAY higher, and my overall being is far superior to yours. Do you know why? Because I'm not a 25 year old arrogant dick that believes veganism is the only way to live and everybody else is a willingly ignorant tard thats poisoning themselves. You are on par with militant atheists as far being the most irritating life form in existence. Have a good day bro, and by bro I mean never my bro you fuking *******.

i love meat but this debate is interesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq8AV9HK3z4

^ x1000

Any respectable farmer and rancher would say the exact same thing as this guy.

People like OP are annoying ignorant scum to all the people that do the back breaking labor that make this country work. The self-righteousness of people like OP who have probably never done real farm work in their life is just ridiculous. These are the people that ban hunting and then freak out as their neighborhoods get overrun with wild animals. These are the people that talk about the evils of frac'ing to no end and have never been near a frac site. A bunch of sheltered 1st world cry babies. The idea that you can eat meat and live in harmony with nature is beyond them.

mother nature may be more cruel.

unfortunately we need food to survive

based on???

Absolutely nothing it looks like. No sources or proof of any kind in this point. Buddy I'm not here to "defend animals" I'm here to show that there is no logical argument whatsoever for exploiting animals. And you've provided zero argument.Where in the flying **** did I say it is at all practical for everyone to "convert to a vegan lifestyle tomorrow?" Not only would that never happen (if the world went vegan it would be a very slow process) it's completely retarded to even speculate on it. If the world goes vegan, it's going to be a slow and meticulous process where farming animals will slowly fade out over a long period of time where there will be no cattle and farm animals "starving to death." Doesn't sound like you've put very much thought into this whatsoever. Just more hypothetical retarded scenarios that carnists like yourself come up with and somehow try and pass it off as a legit argument.That's really cool you do that and live your life that way. Now answer me this, how practical do you think it would be for the other 300 million animal product eaters in America to do what you do? The grass-fed beef nonsense would not even come close to meeting the modern-day meat demands of America, and it's not particularly close either. Factory farming exists because of the insane demand on meat. And this is why veganism needs to become big, the economics argument of animal products and demand for them is a vast debate. Oh and your logic of "I treat my animals nice before I slit their throat" is stupid nonsense. Take someone who "treats their dogs nice before he slits their throat" and people lose their mind and he probably gets charged for animal cruelty. This is the stupid double standard people like you live by.

" I eat 2 lbs of lean red meat a day and I guarantee my lab work is better than yours, my test levels are higher, my lifts are WAY higher, and my overall being is far superior to yours."

That's ok, I wouldn't expect someone as stupid as you to understand that appealing to an anecdote does nothing to contribute to a logical argument.

" Because I'm not a 25 year old arrogant dick that believes veganism is the only way to live and everybody else is a willingly ignorant tard thats poisoning themselves."

More strawman nonsense but once again I don't expect someone as stupid as you to understand.

"" You are on par with militant atheists as far being the most irritating life form in existence. Have a good day bro, and by bro I mean never my bro you fuking *******."

You care so much that you come into my thread and cry like a little bitch about how annoying I am. Luckily retards like you are become more scarce.

So you need to do farm work to understand that exploiting animals for food is unnecessary and immoral?

Did you also need to be a black slave owner to understand that exploiting black people was wrong too?

You continue to flaunt your single-digit IQ.

Look at the numbers buddy.

Beef and dairy production is the most ridiculously inefficient way to produce food.