LOL single mother working two jobs, already maxed out with trying to find childcare for her kids, tell her to go take night classes.

Oh I agree with that and I blame no one but myself for the situation that I was in. If you were to ask me 3-4 years ago that I would be where I'm at now I would pass out I would be laughing so hard. Its possible for me to get out its just going to take a lot longer than I want too. My gf was in my position when she was my age now and is doing really well for herself, she is 36 now and is very comfortable. Its good motivation for me. She did the work 2 jobs while full time school thing. I really do wish I had that type of discipline.

who was trades? lots of jobs will get you out of poverty that arent stem.

If she needs to take night classes to better herself, then she needs to do that. never said it was easy, but nobody told her to have children without a stable career and finances either. Sure, maybe she lost her job after having kids but most people with a solid degree or training can find work after being laid off

People make bad decisions (like having a family before you're prepared to pay for it, or not completing high school or college, or taking stupid useless courses like gender studies), but nobody wants to feel responsible for their situation in life.. so we get this Marxist crap.

The concept is always the same: If someone else is doing better than you, they must be oppressing you, and if they're oppressing you, it's ok for you to steal their ****. It's furthermore ok for you to use the power of the state to enact legislation that allows the "legal" transfer of their money to you, ala wealth redistribution. The other avenue they go for is raising the minimum wage, which simply causes inflation, thereby keeping their buying power static, while the buying power of people who make above the new minimum wage decreases. This is why communism/socialism results in equality in the sense that everyone is equally poor. Wow. Such equality. So fairness. Much living wage.

Whenever you hear the phrase "living wage," just move along and ignore the commie bullsht. Whoever uses that phrase is about to launch into the whole "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" marxist bullsht.



Edit: ^wizard

Unless you have actually come from the bottom tier of society and made your way up in this world I kind of lol @ this post.

I came from the bottom 20%, alcoholic family, small town of 10k where no body makes it and I moved to a big city and busted my ass night and day to earn a degree without a loan and graduated without debt, and make low 90s now. The struggle was unbelievable and pretty much nearly broke me mentally on numerous occasions (mom trying to kill herself in my second year of uni), not being able to afford milk and opening my fridge and seeing water and ketchup only inside of it. I don't think I can be broken after my rise up, but I know that the majority of the general population probably couldn't deal. It takes some strength to make it from the bottom.

Unless you have done this OP, I suggest you take your grass is greener, life is so ez attitude and blow it out your ass.

Oh, and I didn't take an engineering degree, don't think I could have working 30-40 hours a week.

As a person who grew up poor in rural TN I say bullshyt. We had nothing. When my mom first got a check book when I was in HS I thought we were balling. My house burned when I was in 4th grade. It was just a 2br 1ba and we had a family of 4. When my dad rebuilt it (himself) we didn't have doors or carpet or a ceiling (roof, yes, but open ceiling) or anything on the walls. We had concrete floors, not stained unless you count the burn marks from where the previous house was b/c we left the foundation. For doors we had fabric hung and that's how my mom caught me fapping when I was 14 or so.

We had 1 wood stove and my bedroom was in the back. You could literally see your breath in my room throughout the winters. 1 window unit AC for summer and my room was usually between 80-85 in the summer. Walls were cinder block and pretty much all of our appliances were used. Our kitchen cabinets were wood with no paint or varnish.

I went to college, worked while in school and summers in factories wherever I could find work. I worked 3 jobs at times in college, but mostly 2. I got financial aid and lots of student loans. I knew college was my key to a better life than where I came from so I stuck with it and got my Bachelor's, got a job, paid off my student loans on my own.

I spent 15 years with Memphis police department and just retired October 3. I now work in outside sales and will make almost 2x what I did make. I have more than I ever even imagined as a kid. I have a nice house in a great school district, a badass car, all the tech toys I want, a rental house that brings me almost $500 profit a month, 5 figure savings account, good 401 k and a pension from the city that will pay me 1400/month when I'm 59.5 years old.

I came from fuking nothing and I made it. Neither of my parents finished high school. I made it b/c I wanted it as bad as I wanted to breathe. I did not give up. I had a decent career and wanted more so I found an opening and went after it. I saw the job opening, applied, followed up with a call, got an interview and studied my ass off for the interview. Researched the company, practiced answers, researched salesman interview questions.

Based on my up-bringing, perseverance and career as a police officer I know that there is nothing in this world I can't do. I was born in the dark. Shaped by the dark, molded by the dark.

Miscers gonna misc

Everyone who is poor is lazy and stupid.

Nope. Sometimes it's a multitude of reasons but I wouldn't expect a bunch of young middle and upper class white kids to understand that. You guys remind me of people I met in college. Mommy and daddy helping them their whole lives and then wondering why everyone else isn't succeeding like they are.

1) When you have a family, it's very difficult to get a new skill, learn a new trade, go back to school, etc. You have to support your family first.

2) Many people have some sort of disqualification (especially now) from military type service to get that sort of career going

3) When you're working paycheck to paycheck, it's MUCH harder to take a risk knowing that one screw up will cost you your apartment and everything else

4) The wages haven't kept up with inflation so people spend a lot of money for simple things (going out to eat) so unless you completely dial back on any sort of expenditure, you're hard-pressed to save anything

5) Public transportation sucks in a lot of places so car payments/gas money is a necessity when it wouldn't be otherwise


There's a ton of reasons but a lot of you don't seem to have the mental capacity to understand that.

In before "STEM this, STEM that"

So in other words, you're some kind of fukking superhero and most people couldn't do what you did? Or maybe most people are just lazy as fukk, and make really stupid/bad decisions about how to go about getting their education in something useful, or having kids before they're financially stable.

The 3 things you have to do to stay above poverty in this country are as follows:

1. Finish High School
2. Work full time
3. Don't have kids until you're married

That's it. If you follow those steps, you will live above the poverty line. Those are not difficult things to do. But people are busy thinking with their groins instead of their brains. I should count myself lucky I'm so unattractive to the opposite sex, because at least it allowed me to focus on my career. I came from a town of 800 people with zero industry and a couple gas stations and restaurants for employment opportunities. I now make a decent middle class living. I had to move 400 miles away from my home town to find what I was looking for in terms of career prospects, which I paid for by working 3 ****ty minimum wage jobs at the same time, but here I am.. successful. I don't consider myself to be some captain of industry or particularly goal oriented or motivated. I just didn't fukk around where my education is concerned, and I didn't have kids out of wedlock. Viola.Having a family before you can financially support them is in fact, very stupid.

Good for you.

But it comes from personal values and goals. Everyone can make something of themselves, but not everyone is willing to. No one's life is easy. Some have it harder than others, but everyone has to work to get where they want. It boils down to doing what you have to do. Most don't do that anymore because..well...they don't have to. People can just have a bunch of kids and get welfare and child support. People can do nothing and be sheltered. Back in the day you had to figure out some way to make money, succeed, etc just to survive. Look at the gold rush for example.

If you fail in this society, it is on you. We have built such a complex, but unique economic structure to allow you to fukking blog and make a living. You have access to all the information you could ever want at your fingertips. Like my father always tells me "it's sink or swim son. Figure it out."

Trust me I have been at low points. It's rough, but it's on you. Figure it out. Most won't though. And it boils down to them...no matter their circumstance.

^ This.

Also everyone they know and that surrounds them is in the same sht situation, blames external factors and follows a culture of self-sabotage.

It's 70% a mentality, but that's not easily fixed when it's so deeply ingrained in culture and their surroundings.

you cant discredit my argument by attacking my life experience. Tell me where I am wrong. From your story, sounds like I am right. You did what you had to do. THe opportunity was there. Most people arent willing to do that to get out.

Maybe if you weren't a retard you would know the idea you talked about is social Darwinism and it holds no scientific merit beyond nutcases with an agenda (that is to cash in on dumbasses like you).

I'll expand on my OP to make sure you understand my position. I gave an example by citing inner cities, but our rural areas, many of them red states and counties, suffer from the same fuked up cycle. This is not a political or racial issue we're discussing, it's a economic one. There are plenty of kids who grew up on a farm and are destined to die on one while big agro fuks their lives up and takes everything their parents worked for.

Let me also clarify this for you son: I am the last person to fight for social justice. I am a very selfish person who happens to believe social change does not come form individual or even collective actions. The economy is what dictates what change may or may not occur. We're just talking about the mechanism that make someone successful in our society. As a white guy (East Euro origins) with immigrant, college educated parents, I definitely know I got a leg up on a lot of people. And I don't really give a chit to be honest. Life is tough, people suffer and perish. It's not within my power or yours to change that. However, unlike you, I do recognize the cold as fuk realities of life instead of dismissing them with a one-liner. It's not just genetics, but it is the REALITY of the matter. A socio-economic reality beyond many people's controls. It's fuked up and inevitable, but let's not pretend it doesn't exist.

Do you want a serious answer?

1. Many people who don't make enough income to support their family (sometimes it can be their fault for example if they had a bunch of kids) are in their middle ages. They can't stop working and give up the small income they make to go study stupid **** at some university that they will never use for 4 years using loan money to maybe get a better job that isn't available because our economy is **** and many if not most of the worthwhile jobs got shipped overseas. When you have 3k in bills to pay a month you can't just put it on hold and go to college and not pay your rent and food.

2. Getting a STEM degree doesn't mean anything, nor is getting any degree. You can get a degree and not get a job for many reasons. Either there's no availability of jobs or little availability, it could be highly competitive, and maybe the person is just an idiot who can't get past the interview.

3. Many people get degrees, including STEM, and are working at McDonalds because they realize, unlike you, that getting a piece of paper doesn't mean you magically get hired for a high-paying position.

4. Some people are lazy or not intelligent enough.

All I'm saying is that everyone starts out on a different rung on the ladder, and that motivation and mental toughness aren't necessarily innate. People on this forum tend to over simplify everything in an autistic and short sighted way.

Then you should have saved up and worked in highschool then you ****ing crybaby.

if you have a family before you're financially ready, that's your own fuking fault. A white collar college graduate can get laid off and find a new job most of the time.

if you are disqualified from certain work, pursue the ones you qualify for.

if you are pay check to pay check, take out a loan and do part time classes if need be. nobody said it's easy

same as above on inflation, which is fuking up middle class people as well

same above on car payments, take a out a fuking loan like everyone else for classes if you cant afford anything else

It depends on stage of life, but generally mistakes that follow them.

The easiest path to middle class is usually the military and they are very picky right now.

Beyond that the trick is to gain a skill, but at the same time attempt to find a way to live,

My sister for example is in Dental Hygiene school and simply does not have the time to both go to school and work. Her christmas present from me was food...
She can't get a loan because non of her family will co-sign. It is a tough deal.

After my graduation I was poor because the chit jobs interfered with my ability to find a good job.

You do realize that most 18-20 year olds can't qualify for a loan right?

Let me blow this one out of the water for you b/c it sounds like you're selling yourself and your family short. Because once #1 on your list falls, they all fall.

I have a family, and a career. My career is about 15 y/o and my twins are 14. During that time I have taught myself how to paint cars. Watching Youtube vids and reading everything I could. This led to a side gig which brought in a lot of extra money for me and my family when I was younger. It led to me getting the knowledge that got me my 2nd career too. During this time I worked as a police officer on midnights, worked on my stuff in the afternoons and painted at a body shop on my days off. I was using his shop to paint my stuff and he was impressed enough that he hired me. Oh and I was there for EVERYTHING for my boys. All soccer/football games, all school parties. Only thing I missed during this time was sleep.

About a year ago I decided I wanted out of law enforcement. I knew the tech world was a good one and I could get certifications in my own time and not have to worry about a degree so much. I found videos on Youtube and online and watched 50+ hours of video and studied everything I could and got my CompTia A+ certificate. All while working and still not missing any of my boys football games. They are the starting middle linebackers in Jr high now btw.

I was working on my Networking+ certificate when I saw an opportunity in sales in the auto body industry. I decided that would be a good fit for me, maybe even better than IT b/c it's not crammed in an office. I got that job as I said in my earlier post. I'm mobile, back in the collision industry and happy as could be.

how does almost everyone that comes out of college come out with student loan debt then?

Ah yes, the ol' logical fallacy that everyone who has a family did it before they had a job. It's absolutely NOT possible that someone had a job that paid alright, had a family and then lost that job for a multitude of reasons. Nope, not possible at all.

It's also not possible that education about matters of having families isn't instilled in a lot of people because of the absolute crap environment they're raised in. Is that a good excuse? No, but unless you've lived in horrible areas where education is a joke and no one gives a fck, you don't really understand the societal aspects of people who get married and have kids young....or just have kids in general.

Taking out a loan? Are you serious? So someone who has very little collateral, very little money, etc is supposed to take out a loan and get raped on interest rates (because they probably won't have a stellar credit rating) and gamble that it pays off? Yeah ok.

And then your other arguments are all basically the same. Make payments. No ****. It's hard to do that when people live paycheck to paycheck.



I LOVE how so many people here just simplify the reasons without even an inkling of thought into it. No wonder this place is full of autists.

The problem is there is little room for error. If you fuk up while young and have a kid(s) too early, get consumer debt, get student loan debt for a degree of little use then you are trapped since a person can't just work hard and make a decent living anymore without certain qualifications.

You can't allow half of the capital on the planet to get funneled to the top 1% of workers, offshore half of the first world economy to developing countries via free trade agreements, and provide no real pathway out for a lot of people who get caught behind the '8-ball' for whatever reason and think that shaming people will be sufficient to correct behavior or sustain the status quo. Chit is going to hit the fan as the number of 'have nots' grow.

Thats my argument, it comes down to motivation and mental toughness in the end. It's not societies fault if you weren't/arent; willing to do what you need to do to become qualified for better jobs.

and it doesnt have to be stem big paying jobs. Just good enough to get you out of poverty is possible for anyone willing from what I can tell. Just because it's harder if you're really poor doesnt mean it is not possible or societies fault

OP just realize that the average IQ in the states is 100 meaning a fair amount have sub 100 IQ's, now factor in drive, starting station in life, environmental factors and the picture should develop quite quickly as to why people struggle to find high paying jobs.

The reason I site life experience is because unless you have made it, you don't know what it takes to make it. It's like the kids in university that talk about how much money they are going to make once they graduate and then have a difficult time finding 40k/year jobs and are crippled with student debt. It's all talk unless you have perspective, isn't it?

I literally acknowleded the getting laid off after having kids thing.

If you have a good degree and career going, and get laid off after having kids most of the time you can find work again that is not minimum wage poverty. It happens a lot.

I dont understand how student loans work, but wouldnt you have to make payments AFTER you get your degree and better job? Obviously you wouldnt need to make a payment immeditately how would that make sense? And yes, if your options are take out a loan or suffer in the cycle of poverty TAKE OUT THE FUKING LOAN AND DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO TO HELP YOURSELF

I'm not talking about 6 figure jobs. just a good enough job to not be in constant poverty. there are options for people unless you're really dumb or lazy

The problem with student loans for most people is that they go to a school way too expensive for the career they're studying for. A social worker should not graduate college 100k in debt. Find a cheaper school. And also people taking out the max amount of student loans and using that money to live on instead of working.

I've come from money and then my family went through a tragedy and I had to build myself up again.

I've seen brahs with money and degrees ruin their lives by bad decisions, and some with degrees who don't have the 'Will' to go out and work for themselves.

I know a guy who flat out told me "I don't really want the responsibility", and works as a Server that graduated from a top college in an entrepreneur program.

Everyone is different. Its the choices you make in life that define who you really are.


You brahs who started from the bottom don't realize a lot of the people who started at the top take it for granted and end up losing it or something devastating happens.. Unless you're some Rockefeller, history has a way of repeating itself. Money runs out. Accidents happen.