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Forum » A Date Which Will Live in Infamy
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Thread: A Date Which Will Live in Infamy

post 1474130061 12-07-2016, 09:57 AM
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post 1474132101 12-07-2016, 10:15 AM
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My grandfather will never forgive Japan for Pearl Harbor. He was drafted in 1944 and was on a carrier in the pacific towards the end of the war(USS White Plains). His brother fought with the 4th Marine Regiment and ended up taking alot of Japanese lives (50+). It took the life out of him and he ended up living with his mom for the rest of his life.

Here are some of his stuff he brought back

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post 1474132571 12-07-2016, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted By JeenyusJr⏩
For some one so self assuredly well versed in history I'd think you would have heard that the August 24, 1940 bombing of London was likely a mistake. Certainly not part of the master plan (Operation Sealion). Certainly not an order from Adolf. 9 civilians killed in that "attack" on Central London. Think about it, do you think the Luftwaffe would really kick-off attacks on civilian targets with this bombing? Nah m8. Just like they had before (brb Poland, brb low countries, brb France, brb brb) they would have done something big > like Japanese @ Pearl Harbor.

So I guess you also learned the revisionist history which justifies Allied war crimes.

p.s. Pearl Harbor was an inside job.
yeah the germans never did anything to harm civilians
post 1474132611 12-07-2016, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted By matiemcgee123⏩
My grandfather will never forgive Japan for Pearl Harbor. He was drafted in 1944 and was on a carrier in the pacific towards the end of the war(USS White Plains). His brother fought with the 4th Marine Regiment and ended up taking alot of Japanese lives (50+). It took the life out of him and he ended up living with his mom for the rest of his life.

Here are some of his stuff he brought back
Very cool man. Perhaps consider donating that to a museum?
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post 1474132631 12-07-2016, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted By Drazzztic⏩
War is war...but you do realize the Japanese attacked a military base right? That's exactly what they are supposed to do....

Killing civilians is a war foul, but attacking a base is normal.....

Whereas the US nuked the **** out of countless innocent Japanese citizens.

In war, only military personnel should see violence, not the citizens.
You need to study the logistic importance of the sites that were nuked and what they stood for in Japanese war culture in WWII.

Japan would have raped and pillaged our entire nation and all its people just like it did to the people of Asia. They got exactly what they deserved.
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post 1474132731 12-07-2016, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted By Drazzztic⏩
I'm aware of the atrocities of WW2, on both sides. But you guys don't seem to understand the concept I've been trying to discuss.

The attack on Pearl Harbor was a tragedy for the US and thats what this thread was about.

But you guys are being painfully hypocritical and ignorant and aren't understanding that an attack on government personnel is an act of war. Whereas an attack on citizens is a genocide.


Queue another straw man post about another Japanese war crime which has nothing to do with what I'm discussing....
So when the Japanese convinced their own people to kill themselves that is ok?

What is worse us nuking them and killing 10s of thousands or us trying to invade the country and the death total both American and Japanese being in the hundreds of thousands? The Japanese governments told their civilians it was far better to die than be captured. Knowing how the Japanese treated their POWs they figured the US would treat theirs similar.

Not only that, but we had been bombing their cities already (See bombing of Tokyo which is never even mentioned). By showing the amount of force we could unleash they probably saved many lives on both sides.
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post 1474133161 12-07-2016, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted By Drazzztic⏩
War is war...but you do realize the Japanese attacked a military base right? That's exactly what they are supposed to do....

Killing civilians is a war foul, but attacking a base is normal.....

Whereas the US nuked the **** out of countless innocent Japanese citizens.

In war, only military personnel should see violence, not the citizens.
They attacked without a declaration of war. It was equivalent of a terrorist attack you fking retard.
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post 1474133581 12-07-2016, 10:29 AM
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Millions of people died and people are still stuck on that part of the war.
post 1474134871 12-07-2016, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted By WillBrink⏩
Urin an idiot with tin foil hat on too tight. I was hoping the tin foil would make it a few pages, but not to be:

" the Nazis bombed Warsaw, Wieluri, Frampol, and Kamieniec in Poland killing thousands of Polish civilians in September 1939, they bombed 14 cities in France, including Lyons, between May 9 and 10, 1940 and their bombing of Rotterdam on May 14, 1940 resulted in the deaths of 30,000 Dutch civilians --- we have not even bothered to mention their attack on Belgrade ---all in direct violation of the Hague Convention concerning the targeting of civilians"

But the bombing of London was a "mistake" and PH an inside job. Cue Holocaust deniers in 3..2..1
Prove I'm an idiot? Another statement you just invented and typed. Seems you prefer quantity over quality when it comes to regurgitating your historical facts. Just lol.

Go back to your post #14 "Hitler started that one with directly targeting civilians by bombing London", read my reply again, then write something to me. Otherwise you're just spewing garbage and replying to yourself m8.
Originally Posted By Retoaded⏩
yeah the germans never did anything to harm civilians
To both of you. I acknowledge Luftwaffe bombed civilians "unintentionally" first (Polish, Belgian, NL, French, UK). Britain was nonetheless the first to officially order civilian bombing. I quoted the word unintentionally because we can assume they didn't give a chit.

WillBrink made the claim "Hitler started that one with directly targeting civilians by bombing London", then called me an idiot and started quoting random chit about Poland.

post 1474134901 12-07-2016, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted By Jaroctor⏩
Millions of people died and people are still stuck on that part of the war.
Cuz that's where it officially started for the US you herpa derp. Gonna come a surprise to some millennial know it all type, but societies tend to remember when such things begin and why, and when they end. If more people actually paid attention to it, perhaps less likely to happen again. Posts such as yours do not instill hope however.
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post 1474135231 12-07-2016, 10:43 AM
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Location Germany. The irony of a German commenting on the US bombing civilian targets in WWII takes the stupid to a new level. Congrats son.
Originally Posted By JeenyusJr⏩
WillBrink made the claim "Hitler started that one with directly targeting civilians by bombing London",
He did
Originally Posted By JeenyusJr⏩
then called me an idiot
You are.

Thread is about Pacific theater, not Euro, so move along German brah as you don't know chit about it.
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post 1474135271 12-07-2016, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted By JeenyusJr⏩
Prove I'm an idiot? Another statement you just invented and typed. Seems you prefer quantity over quality when it comes to regurgitating your historical facts. Just lol.

Go back to your post #14 "Hitler started that one with directly targeting civilians by bombing London", read my reply again, then write something to me. Otherwise you're just spewing garbage and replying to yourself m8.



To both of you. I acknowledge Luftwaffe bombed civilians "unintentionally" first (Polish, Belgian, NL, French, UK). Britain was nonetheless the first to officially order civilian bombing. I quoted the word unintentionally because we can assume they didn't give a chit.

WillBrink made the claim "Hitler started that one with directly targeting civilians by bombing London", then called me an idiot and started quoting random chit about Poland.

plus there is the whole 6 million jews thing
post 1474136141 12-07-2016, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted By JeenyusJr⏩
To both of you. I acknowledge Luftwaffe bombed civilians "unintentionally" first (Polish, Belgian, NL, French, UK).
Lmao. You are chatting ****. Germany had conducted mass strategic bombing of Polish cities before Britain was even in the war. When you do that you KNOW you are guaranteed to be taking out civilians. It was exactly what Britain started doing after, bomb the **** out of cities, remove industrial output and cripple morale.
post 1474136731 12-07-2016, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted By infinit⏩
Lmao. You are chatting ****. They did mass strategic bombing of Polish cities. When you do that you KNOW you are guaranteed to be taking out civilians. It was exactly what Britain started doing after, bomb the **** out of cities, remove industrial output and cripple morale.
Note his location dude. They are taught a revisionist history you wouldn't believe and the average younger German knows even less about their full involvement than most US citizens. I had a buddy go teach English in Germany not long ago, and he said his mind was blown by what's not taught and or left out. It's even worse in Japan. I chit you not.

The Luftwaffe "unintentionally" bombed civilian targets pretty much sums it up.
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post 1474137301 12-07-2016, 11:01 AM
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I remember reading someplace that the Japanese did not have much of an option.
The US put a blockade/embargo on them, sank their ships coming in to Japan with Subs that carried steel etc.
The Japanese had no way out but to attack the country that was starving them out.

Also was watching a documentary the other day, Mazda based out of Hiroshima, is now driven all over the USA.
While yet you look at Detroit.
So the USA bombed Japan with Atomic weapons, destroyed two cities completely.
But economically Japan did the same to Detroit, some of the places look like they were bombed.

History is crazy brahs.
Either way though, RIP to the souls lost on that day.
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post 1474137391 12-07-2016, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted By NotBigEnough206⏩
I remember reading someplace that the Japanese did not have much of an option.
The US put a blockade/embargo on them, sank their ships coming in to Japan with Subs that carried steel etc.
The Japanese had no way out but to attack the country that was starving them out.

Also was watching a documentary the other day, Mazda based out of Hiroshima, is now driven all over the USA.
While yet you look at Detroit.
So the USA bombed Japan with Atomic weapons, destroyed two cities completely.
But economically Japan did the same to Detroit, some of the places look like they were bombed.

History is crazy brahs.
Either way though, RIP to the souls lost on that day.
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post 1474137901 12-07-2016, 11:06 AM
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RIP. Our WW2 vets are dwindling.
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post 1474137951 12-07-2016, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted By WillBrink⏩
But the bombing of London was a "mistake" and PH an inside job. Cue Holocaust deniers in 3..2..1
Originally Posted By WillBrink⏩
He did
Get a load of this guy. So now you confirmed your ignorance and certainty on this point 3 times. It's only funny to me based on the # of posts ITT and your blind devotion to your understanding of events. What would change your mind there champ? You still honestly think the big guy himself ordered the August 24, 1940 "attack"? It defies logic. Maybe you'd believe the BBC?

"The situation changed on 24 August when the Luftwaffe –accidentally, it’s now believed – dropped bombs on central London instead of the docks. Nine people were killed"
source:http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/events/...wns_and_cities
Originally Posted By WillBrink⏩
Location Germany. The irony of a German commenting on the US bombing civilian targets in WWII takes the stupid to a new level. Congrats son.
USA has killed the most civilians by bombing in WWII and in the history of Humanity. Also leads the way in single air raids with USAAF bombing of Tokyo on March 10, 1945 followed by Hiroshima, Hamburg, Nagasaki... 2016 and still going strong I think.

I can comment on anything I want fella. You can call people names like stupid and idiot, but you really expose your own ignorance with every keystroke. Calling someone a name adds as much credibility to your argument as posting 30 times ITT about your supposed infallible view of history.

I'm not German, so another thing you're completely wrong about.
post 1474138221 12-07-2016, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted By infinit⏩
Lmao. You are chatting ****. Germany had conducted mass strategic bombing of Polish cities before Britain was even in the war. When you do that you KNOW you are guaranteed to be taking out civilians. It was exactly what Britain started doing after, bomb the **** out of cities, remove industrial output and cripple morale.
If you wanna play, you gotta pay. Firebombing of Dresden was a horrible event and is considered the single most destructive bombing of the war—including Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Killed 135,000 people. War is a horrible disgusting thing, but when you ignore history and or revise it, you're FAR more likely to repeat it. When people invent facts and history (and ALL countries do it) to make it sound like their involvement was not so bad, then you get generations later on looking to do the same damn chit. The open society the US is, makes it more difficult to white wash horrible chit and one way or another, the truth comes out. Plenty of horrible chit to to go around for all involved, but some were worse than others and some started it and paid a very hefty price for it.
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post 1474138301 12-07-2016, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted By Drazzztic⏩
War is war...but you do realize the Japanese attacked a military base right? That's exactly what they are supposed to do....

Killing civilians is a war foul, but attacking a base is normal.....

Whereas the US nuked the **** out of countless innocent Japanese citizens.

In war, only military personnel should see violence, not the citizens.
This is a good point. Also don't forget the Battle of the Atlantic; civilian merchant ships crossing to Europe where 3,500 merchant vessels were lost over the course of the war.
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post 1474138501 12-07-2016, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted By JeenyusJr⏩
I'm not German, so another thing you're completely wrong about.
My mothers side were first generation German's off the boat, and you're still wrong. People like you are why future wars happen, and will happen again.
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post 1474138601 12-07-2016, 11:12 AM
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The Japanese deserved everything that they got in WWII, and after for that matter. The Japanese of today are our friends. They are good people. But that doesn't mean that they didn't do terrible things in the past, including terrible things to us.

1. Pearl Harbor was absolutely 100% a sneak attack. As has been stated, there was no declaration of war. They tried to eliminate our navy. It was a smart attack in my view, a wise decision to try and take out our naval power. Thankfully for us and all of the good people in the world it failed.

2. The nuclear weapons used by us to end the war were absolutely 100% justified. The Japanese would have fought tooth and nail had we militarily invaded their homeland. These are the same Japanese people whose soldiers would kill themselves. These are the same Japanese people whose pilots would fly suicide missions. These are the same Japanese people who worshiped a man as their God. They wouldn't have given up easily.

3. The Japanese did terrible things in the wars prior to and during WWII. It is very well documented that the Japanese did horrible things to the people of Asia and to our own soldiers who were captured by them. They did some of the worst things in history. They did things that were just as bad or worse than the Nazis and the communists did.

The fact that people will defend the Japanese of WWII is nonsense. The fact that people will try to demonize the United States is even worse. You posters doing these things need to seriously rethink your positions.
post 1474139421 12-07-2016, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted By NotBigEnough206⏩
I remember reading someplace that the Japanese did not have much of an option.
The US put a blockade/embargo on them, sank their ships coming in to Japan with Subs that carried steel etc.
The Japanese had no way out but to attack the country that was starving them out.

Also was watching a documentary the other day, Mazda based out of Hiroshima, is now driven all over the USA.
While yet you look at Detroit.
So the USA bombed Japan with Atomic weapons, destroyed two cities completely.
But economically Japan did the same to Detroit, some of the places look like they were bombed.

History is crazy brahs.
Either way though, RIP to the souls lost on that day.
False. The Japanese were in China and expanding their empire and doing horrible chit to the Chinese and the region. There's a reason the entire region to this day hates the Japanese. We and others demanded they stop doing that, and they refused. We wanted to avoid war, but were the major supplier of oil and stuff to Japan, so we simply stopped selling them what they needed for their war machine. We had every right to not want to support their war efforts in the region, and they took that as an act of war, and attacked. Their option was to stop what they were doing to the other countries in the region, and it would have been biz per usual with oil, etc. Hence, you have to go back a few steps to really see why we did what we did, and they did what they did. They did have an option, they just refused to take it, but at that time, similar to the Germans, their entire society built around war and expansion and little else. They wanted a fight, and they got one. They just picked the wrong foe who took that sneak attack personally, and the rest is history.
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post 1474139921 12-07-2016, 11:22 AM
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Thank you for posting this. Anyone that has a chance to visit Hawaii or be stationed there would be foolish not to visit the Arizona memorial and the USS Missouri. Major league history even if you completely oppose war. I was lucky enough to re-enlist on the surrender deck of the Missouri. We are losing so much of this generation of greatness every day.
post 1474140091 12-07-2016, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted By infinit⏩
Lmao. You are chatting ****. Germany had conducted mass strategic bombing of Polish cities before Britain was even in the war. When you do that you KNOW you are guaranteed to be taking out civilians. It was exactly what Britain started doing after, bomb the **** out of cities, remove industrial output and cripple morale.
We generally agree. You've likely interpreted "unintentionally" wrong which is why I tried to clarify the use of that word. Chill m8.
RAF were the first to officially or "intentionally" order attacks on civilian targets, that's just a fact. Before this attacks on both sides would be directly on military targets, or disguised as such. What Nazi Germany did in the East was horrible and you could also argue that human living in the East was not even viewed as a "civilian" because they were defined as sub-human.
Originally Posted By WillBrink⏩
My mothers side were first generation German's off the boat, and you're still wrong. People like you are why future wars happen, and will happen again.
wtf m8 now I'm the reason future wars will start? Because I argued with an OG manlet on the Misc about whether or not Hitler ordered the August 24, 1940 bombing of London (which he didn't)? You conveniently avoided any counterpoint or acknowledgement regarding the events of August 24, 1940 or your understanding of them.

How is your geaneology relevant? just lol
post 1474141601 12-07-2016, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted By AboveAverage⏩
Fuark brahs imagine just 1 plane/sub or whatever managed to spot the Japanese Navy approaching. The murkans would have ended them then and there.
Actually a US Navy destroyer (USS Ward) spotted and sunk a small "midget" submarine outside the harbor an hour before the main attack.

Command was notified, but it was pretty much ignored, so no alarm was issued.


Then the fact that the radar station saw the group of aircraft approaching on their screens, but they figured it was scheduled incoming US aircraft from the mainland.
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post 1474141771 12-07-2016, 11:34 AM
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#57
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Originally Posted By slat11⏩
Thank you for posting this. Anyone that has a chance to visit Hawaii or be stationed there would be foolish not to visit the Arizona memorial and the USS Missouri. Major league history even if you completely oppose war. I was lucky enough to re-enlist on the surrender deck of the Missouri. We are losing so much of this generation of greatness every day.
Absolutely true. Once they are all gone, and those with first hand accounts are no longer here to correct the denial and revisionist history, will the cycle fully repeat itself, and that's a bad day.
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post 1474142031 12-07-2016, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted By GrimesSU⏩
Actually a US Navy destroyer (USS Ward) spotted and sunk a small "midget" submarine outside the harbor before the main attack.

Command was notified, but it was ignored pretty much, so no alarm was issued.
One of various reasons the two highest level officers where raked over the coals after it and careers ruined. What did exist for obvious signs, were ignored. Hubris and arrogance are a m-fer. Some felt they were unjustly blamed, but it did happen on their watch.
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post 1474142121 12-07-2016, 11:37 AM
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I actually thought Dan Carlin said it quite well in his podcast. In normal circumstances, dropping an atomic bomb would be absolutely crazy. However, these were not normal circumstances. A full blown invasion would most likely cause way more casualties, so I believe that the decision was correct.

I agree that Russia did the main job in WW2, but seeing how they invaded Poland beforehand, how they let the Germans slaughter thousands of people in the Warsaw Uprising, and how they treated every other eastern nation, I have a hard time giving them any credit.
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post 1474142151 12-07-2016, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted By JeenyusJr⏩
How is your geaneology relevant? just lol
He is showing he isn't one sided or blinded by facts because of him being German you putz.

You are here saying Germany at the time did nothing compared to America in WWII.

Germany raided, raped, pillaged, destroyed and took all gold from countries surrounding Germany making them broke, the holocaust, Bombed all nations not willing to become part of the Nazi party, the HOLOCAUST, tried to create an Arian nation, THE HOLOCAUST, murdered anyone not willing to become a Nazi IN Germany, THE HOLOCAUST, hid all Nazi proceeds in swiss banks.....but 2 nukes actually hitting key Japanese military and government infrastructure locations is the worst thing ever.
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