Log In

Your email is not your username

Register

If you were a member of the old Bodybuilding.com forums and would like to reuse your previous username, you can request it below. We use your email only for registration and do not store it. For more information, please see our Privacy Policy.

Confirm your email

A registration code was sent to your email. Enter it here.

Welcome

You have successfully setup your account.

Sign in

Quick Navigation Bottom Misc
Forum » Health Care a Human Right?
  1. Results 91 to 120 of 153
  2. Page 4 of 6
  3. First
  5. 2
  6. 3
  7. 4
  8. 5
  9. 6
  11. Last

Thread: Health Care a Human Right?

post 1503647911 05-05-2017, 04:32 PM
-
#91
  1. US_Ranger
  2. Registered User
  1. US_Ranger
  2. Registered User
  3. Join Date: Apr 2005
  4. Location: California, United States
  5. Age: 44
  6. Posts: 32,182
  7. Rep Power: 120822
Originally Posted By BrocepCurls⏩
Every developed country in the world manages to provide healthcare for its citizens, and health outcomes are comparable if not better than the US, and at a much cheaper price. America is the greatest country in the world right - yet you apparently can't do what every other nation, even ones which are less developed economically, manage to do?
Apparently not.

We can't even do it for our veterans.

Of course the population of the US isn't like smaller, more hegemonic nations. We have a large mix of people, some of which are very very very very very fat and drain resources.

I suggest to anyone who's curious about US health care to go spend a 12 hour shift in any emergency room in a decent sized city.
post 1503648531 05-05-2017, 04:39 PM
-
#92
  1. faxanadu
  2. Registered User
  1. faxanadu
  2. Registered User
  3. Join Date: Sep 2009
  4. Location: Texas, United States
  5. Posts: 13,123
  6. Rep Power: 54413
Originally Posted By BrocepCurls⏩
What the **** are you on about. Third world exploitation is a generalised problem of capitalism, it has nothing specifically to do with universal health care, and if we handed healthcare over to corporations whose only goal is to maximise profit, the same exploitation would continue as it does in every other private industry on the planet.
It has everything to do with universal health care. Your standard of living is so high because you're at the top of the pyramid. That is the ONLY reason why universal health care is somewhat sustainable in developed countries. It would not be sustainable otherwise. This is the reason the VAST MAJORITY of nations in the world do not have universal health care.
Reaching doesn't even begin to describe you here. You don't support universal healthcare because it exploits third world workers, lmfao I've literally heard everything
Wrong. I don't support universal health care because it isn't sustainable. It is strongly suggested that the reason most of the EU is in a debt crisis is because of unviable programs. Health care is generally the largest sector of spending in all these countries. And the only reason any of it is somewhat viable is because of the wealth extracted from the 2nd and 3rd world (hence my referencing them).

If the 80% of surgical instruments made in the world (3rd world) were forced to be made in the EU... what then would happen to your costs? Now apply that across all sectors.

It is interesting that as the standard of living in the east is rises ... the economic uncertainty of the west gets worse and worse. Again... resources and labor doesn't grow on trees.
"There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle." -Gym Jones
"The soul becomes dyed with the color of its thoughts." - Marcus Aurelius

?start=(#seconds)

TAMU Corps
Skydiving
Great Divide Mountain Bike Route (Jasper AB to Juarez MX) 2014
Appalachian Trail 2013
post 1503649401 05-05-2017, 04:48 PM
-
#93
  1. BrocepCurls
  2. Banned
  1. BrocepCurls
  2. Banned
  3. Join Date: Apr 2010
  4. Posts: 15,180
  5. Rep Power: 0
Originally Posted By faxanadu⏩
It has everything to do with universal health care. Your standard of living is so high because you're at the top of the pyramid. That is the ONLY reason why universal health care is somewhat sustainable in developed countries. It would not be sustainable otherwise. This is the reason the VAST MAJORITY of nations in the world do not have universal health care.



Wrong. I don't support universal health care because it isn't sustainable. It is strongly suggested that the reason most of the EU is in a debt crisis is because of unviable programs. Health care is generally the largest sector of spending in all these countries. And the only reason any of it is somewhat viable is because of the wealth extracted from the 2nd and 3rd world.
Right, so then all first world wealth in both the public and private sector is therefore not viable because it is extracted from third world labour. I still don't see how this has anything directly to do with universal healthcare. Sounds like you, a strong capitalist is selectively using a common socialist/anti-capitalist argument to protest against state healthcare, but for some unfathomable reason won't extend that argument to the private sector. I mean, do you not know how corporations work or something?
post 1503651721 05-05-2017, 05:11 PM
-
#94
  1. faxanadu
  2. Registered User
  1. faxanadu
  2. Registered User
  3. Join Date: Sep 2009
  4. Location: Texas, United States
  5. Posts: 13,123
  6. Rep Power: 54413
Originally Posted By BrocepCurls⏩
Right, so then all first world wealth in both the public and private sector is therefore not viable because it is extracted from third world labour. I still don't see how this has anything directly to do with universal healthcare. Sounds like you, a strong capitalist is selectively using a common socialist/anti-capitalist argument to protest against state healthcare, but for some unfathomable reason won't extend that argument to the private sector. I mean, do you not know how corporations work or something?
True capitalism is the most efficient system designed for improving quality and reducing cost. Socialists love to point out the failures of capitalism but refuse to accept the fact that true capitalism died about 100 years ago in the USA. And every time they meddle with it via the government they create less competition and more monopolies. Then the consumer gets less choices, less quality, and higher prices.

"There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle." -Gym Jones
"The soul becomes dyed with the color of its thoughts." - Marcus Aurelius

?start=(#seconds)

TAMU Corps
Skydiving
Great Divide Mountain Bike Route (Jasper AB to Juarez MX) 2014
Appalachian Trail 2013
post 1503652491 05-05-2017, 05:20 PM
-
#95
  1. Archimonde3
  2. Banned
  1. Archimonde3
  2. Banned
  3. Join Date: May 2017
  4. Age: 33
  5. Posts: 4
  6. Rep Power: 0
I don't owe you anything, and you don't owe me anything. If I want to help sick people that is my decision to make
post 1503655361 05-05-2017, 05:58 PM
-
#96
  1. getbig_ttt
  2. Team Rewarding
  1. getbig_ttt
  2. Team Rewarding
  3. Join Date: Aug 2008
  4. Location: Canada
  5. Age: 38
  6. Posts: 10,005
  7. Rep Power: 33950
Originally Posted By Archimonde3⏩
I don't owe you anything, and you don't owe me anything. If I want to help sick people that is my decision to make
What a good person you are. Keep it up champ.

Its unfortunate your family, friend, community does't think that way, I bet it would make a great society.
how can she neg... HOW CAN SHE NEG!!! HOW?!
post 1503657561 05-05-2017, 06:22 PM
-
#97
  1. Hadtodoit
  2. Banned
  1. Hadtodoit
  2. Banned
  3. Join Date: Sep 2008
  4. Posts: 4,032
  5. Rep Power: 0
Originally Posted By N0rds⏩

OPs question is such a tough topic. I can see smart answers on both sides, but the picture above maybe explains it best for me. That logic seems sound.


What I do know though, is that if there are insurance companies in the medical industry raking in the dollars, that's not right. It's complex, but if we could find some way to eliminate the giant profits from healthcare/suppliers/some hospitals, we'd have a better system that more could afford.


There needs to be some capitalism driven motivation for companies to create better methods and better medicines, but it shouldn't quite be a business that can make too many people too much.

If that makes any sense....

How you achieve that? That's the tough question.
post 1503657801 05-05-2017, 06:25 PM
-
#98
  1. Hadtodoit
  2. Banned
  1. Hadtodoit
  2. Banned
  3. Join Date: Sep 2008
  4. Posts: 4,032
  5. Rep Power: 0
[QUOTE=faxanadu post_id=1503651721]True capitalism is the most efficient system designed for improving quality and reducing cost. Socialists love to point out the failures of capitalism but refuse to accept the fact that true capitalism died about 100 years ago in the USA. And every time they meddle with it via the government they create less competition and more monopolies. Then the consumer gets less choices, less quality, and higher prices.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/i7wgJCo.png[/im][/QUOTE]Your post is what I see as the biggest threat to the US for the near future. Less competition in our marketplace for nearly everything.

2 major phone brands

2 major internet/TV providers

very few major automakers

few major real estate providers

too few of everything, it's why the cost of living is higher than ever compared to income. It's so wrong and needs to be halted, somehow.
post 1503658511 05-05-2017, 06:31 PM
-
#99
  1. Mythenthefang
  2. Registered User
  1. Mythenthefang
  2. Registered User
  3. Join Date: Aug 2013
  4. Age: 37
  5. Posts: 4,289
  6. Rep Power: 6787
Originally Posted By Hadtodoit⏩
OPs question is such a tough topic. I can see smart answers on both sides, but the picture above maybe explains it best for me. That logic seems sound.


What I do know though, is that if there are insurance companies in the medical industry raking in the dollars, that's not right. It's complex, but if we could find some way to eliminate the giant profits from healthcare/suppliers/some hospitals, we'd have a better system that more could afford.


There needs to be some capitalism driven motivation for companies to create better methods and better medicines, but it shouldn't quite be a business that can make too many people too much.

If that makes any sense....

How you achieve that? That's the tough question.
Why should it not be a business?

Is the word profit that vile?

If it is then why d you leave something even more vital and important to the free market (food)?

Capitalism has a profit andlosssystem, if you hurt your customers, if you provide them with suboptimal care at too high prices, if you earn too much profit in their eyes (no matter how arbitrary that might be) they will stop using your services.

No government or state has this system, no bureaucrat knows that the market knows.

Here's a poem by Russ Roberts to remind you of the markets beauty and complexity youhttp://wonderfulloaf.org/
Natty poverty maintenance crew

Actual economist crew

Austrian school crew
post 1503658621 05-05-2017, 06:32 PM
-
#100
  1. BrocepCurls
  2. Banned
  1. BrocepCurls
  2. Banned
  3. Join Date: Apr 2010
  4. Posts: 15,180
  5. Rep Power: 0
Originally Posted By faxanadu⏩
True capitalism is the most efficient system designed for improving quality and reducing cost. Socialists love to point out the failures of capitalism but refuse to accept the fact that true capitalism died about 100 years ago in the USA. And every time they meddle with it via the government they create less competition and more monopolies. Then the consumer gets less choices, less quality, and higher prices.

Your argument so far has been based on exploitation of third world workers, something which Capitalism (True™ or fake) depends on entirely. So your whole argument against Universal Healthcare is one giant incoherent fail, even by misc standards
post 1503658661 05-05-2017, 06:32 PM
-
#101
  1. Mythenthefang
  2. Registered User
  1. Mythenthefang
  2. Registered User
  3. Join Date: Aug 2013
  4. Age: 37
  5. Posts: 4,289
  6. Rep Power: 6787
Originally Posted By Hadtodoit⏩
Your post is what I see as the biggest threat to the US for the near future. Less competition in our marketplace for nearly everything.

2 major phone brands

2 major internet/TV providers

very few major automakers

few major real estate providers

too few of everything, it's why the cost of living is higher than ever compared to income. It's so wrong and needs to be halted, somehow.
That's because you don't correctly grasp that competition is aprocessnot a static number of providers.

Where that process is frustrated by barriers to entry created by government is where suffering begins.
Natty poverty maintenance crew

Actual economist crew

Austrian school crew
post 1503661071 05-05-2017, 06:57 PM
-
#102
  1. Andrew99
  2. Scientist at large
  1. Andrew99
  2. Scientist at large
  3. Join Date: Feb 2005
  4. Posts: 4,002
  5. Rep Power: 4319
Originally Posted By JUGGERNAUT1333⏩
....

To contrast my example in my post before... lets compare person A, who is 25 and been smoking since he was 16 and is obese.................versus Person B, who is average weight, good shape but has diabetes...... you could argue both people are unhealthy, even though person A doesn't have any official "condition"
This is the argument people made in the 80's to avoid addressing the problem of AIDS. When you start moralizing illness, you head down a slippery slope which ends with you becoming an azzhole.
(\_/)
(O.o) This is Bunny. Add Bunny to your signature
(> <) to help him achieve world domination
post 1503661111 05-05-2017, 06:57 PM
-
#103
  1. CommunismBrah
  2. Registered User
  1. CommunismBrah
  2. Registered User
  3. Join Date: Apr 2017
  4. Age: 30
  5. Posts: 11
  6. Rep Power: 0
Capitalism is what made the price of insulin shoot up to $700/month.

"A cell phone video shows Dr. Claresa Levetan talking to her patient Shawna Thompson back in the hospital because she couldn’t pay for her insulin. It was the fourth time in just over a year that Thompson had to be treated for a life-threatening diabetic coma."

cbsnews.com/news/insulin-price-hike-lawsuit-accuses-drug-makers-of-conspiring/

This is what capitalism is. It's PURELY profit-driven, with no thoughtful or conscious consideration of what would be most efficient or beneficial to society -- and that has made an ABSOLUTE MESS of our healthcare system. Besides the insulin price hike debacle:

1) Oncologist Farid Fata netted millions of dollars by putting more than 500 patients through unnecessary cancer treatments and then billing their insurers. He has been sentenced to 45 years of prison.

2) Pharmacist Nadeem Iqbal fraudulently billed Medicaid $1.6 million and has been sentenced to 4 years in prison. He's one of 44 people implicated in a massive medical crime network that defrauded Medicare of nearly $122 million.

3) A doctor in Los Angeles is accused of being responsible for $23 million in losses alone, after he prescribed 1,000 power wheelchairs that were not medically necessary and in some cases weren’t even delivered to patients.
post 1503661851 05-05-2017, 07:05 PM
-
#104
  1. Archangel_Lost
  2. Attention K-Mart shoppers
  1. Archangel_Lost
  2. Attention K-Mart shoppers
  3. Join Date: Aug 2003
  4. Location: United States
  5. Posts: 58,036
  6. Rep Power: 148333
America could probably afford universal healthcare (despite it generally being against the capitalist spirit of the nation's history) if we severely cut defense spending.

Which would be amusing to see... the first step would be going full isolationist, stop funding our allies, drop out of NATO, etc. That's not even counting cutting our home defense budget. How would these undefended countries with universal healthcare that have no military spending respond when big ol USA policing the world isn't there to defend them? US is getting ****ed over by these ******* countries that think the world would be fine when 1st world countries spend everything on entitlements, while countries like Iran and NK spend all on military and none on entitlements. Wonder how that would go if the US military disappeared.
Lifts:
Squat: 460x1
Bench: 400x1
Deadlift: 575x1
OHP: 250x2
Weight: 180 lbs.

Don't have heroes; look up to no one. Because as long as someone's leading the way, the best you'll ever be is second.
post 1503663451 05-05-2017, 07:18 PM
-
#105
  1. TheAdlerian
  2. Registered User
  1. TheAdlerian
  2. Registered User
  3. Join Date: Jan 2007
  4. Posts: 44,596
  5. Rep Power: 96349
Originally Posted By atjoblin⏩
I understand that medical care cost money and Health care covers those cost using peoples insurance payments. Why do people believe it is an innate right like breathing air?
In an ethical society it is a right.

I was around for 911 and suddenly when there's a crisis, 99% of people become communist, giving things away, working to help the group for free, etc. The same thing goes for healthcare, it's a crisis every day for millions of people but most people don't see it in front of their face, so it's abstract.

But, I'll bet most of you reading this would fix someone's health for free if you had the ability.

If you saw a guy get his hand cut off, would you charge him to pick up the hand and drive him to the hospital. Would you charge to call 911?

You might think you're badass, but of course you would help for free. That's because you are a badass and don't care about anything when the chips are down.

It's the fact that we live in a world full of pussies controlling things and denying people all kinds of things, when it just doesn't f@cking matter.
If you want to ask me a question:

Ask: TheAdlerian

http://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=150655983&p=1000366043#post1000366043

Read my science fiction novel:

http://www.amazon.com/Echelon-Adlerian-ebook/dp/B00RCFFTKC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1419640250&sr=8-1&keywords=Echelon+the+adlerian
post 1503664491 05-05-2017, 07:28 PM
-
#106
  1. sclimb
  2. Registered User
  1. sclimb
  2. Registered User
  3. Join Date: Sep 2015
  4. Age: 38
  5. Posts: 5,257
  6. Rep Power: 8340
Originally Posted By iloveus⏩
I'm not sure if it's a right but I'm more like people deserve to live. Say a person has brain cancer. If he doesn't get the surgery that he needs then he'll die. The insurance company won't do the surgery because of financial/legal reasons. He nor his loved ones can't afford it. 6 months later his brain deteriorates and he dies.

I'm more for universal healthcare due to these type of scenarios.

Now should everyone pay for everybody's healthcare? Probably not.
Lol. That's not the big deal. The big deal is that Trumpcare is removing the clause that doesn't let insurance companies charge more on insurance rates for pre-existing conditions.

That means that anyone that already has an illness such as cancer or diabetes and gets laid off, and then loses their employer provided insurance after getting laid off, is no longer able to get new insurance at a humanly affordable rate because they'll have a pre-existing condition.

They'll be forced to either die slowly without medical care and traumatize their families, lose their house/car/savings to pay for their own medical care, or commit suicide to avoid either and leave their family with something.

I'm only 5 years older than you but that means that I was 20 instead of 15 when Obamacare got passed. That means that I'm just barely old enough to remember friends' parents going through all 3 of those scenarios. I saw some die slowly, some liquidate their house/cars for medical services and leaving their kids with nothing. I don't know for sure and it's just a rumor but I think I remember one girl's mom blowing her brains out with a shotgun to avoid both of those outcomes.
post 1503664931 05-05-2017, 07:32 PM
-
#107
  1. Bloggs24
  2. Registered User
  1. Bloggs24
  2. Registered User
  3. Join Date: Apr 2014
  4. Age: 36
  5. Posts: 82
  6. Rep Power: 0
Stop saying it should be a right, Healthcare should be a public service like the fire departments and the police. You may never need a fireman or a policeman in your life, but you are paying taxes towards them. With everyone paying taxes into healthcare you know you're covered, you know your brothers and sisters are covered, your mum and your dad is covered. You should be grateful that you may never need to use those healthcare services, but by paying towards them in taxes you you will always know the safety net is there.

To the Miscer who said if someone has like 5% chance of living with a brain tumour why should the public pay for treatment. If that person was your mum would you say nah **** it, let her die?

America has a 3rd world healthcare system, ya'll are ****ing autistic if you think your system is better then any other first world country.

I'm Aussie btw, come at me
post 1503665071 05-05-2017, 07:34 PM
-
#108
  1. gbSyn
  2. certified phaggot
  1. gbSyn
  2. certified phaggot
  3. Join Date: Oct 2010
  4. Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
  5. Posts: 1,495
  6. Rep Power: 4596
Originally Posted By Insanity_SC⏩
over 33% of Americans are already on government healthcare in the US. Just FYI, since most people don't realize. The us is also #4 in the world (most likely #3 now actually) for government healthcare spending per capita. Yes, GOVERNMENT healthcare spending. Simply putting the other 66% on government plans isn't going to fix the problems. The problem is NOT that people don't have insurance or don't have government plans. The problems are pricing related and have everything to do with the provider-insurer relationship (plus US cultural and demographic issues)
Single payer decreases costs, per capita, bro
post 1503665281 05-05-2017, 07:37 PM
-
#109
  1. sclimb
  2. Registered User
  1. sclimb
  2. Registered User
  3. Join Date: Sep 2015
  4. Age: 38
  5. Posts: 5,257
  6. Rep Power: 8340
Originally Posted By Bloggs24⏩
Stop saying it should be a right, Healthcare should be a public service like the fire departments and the police. You may never need a fireman or a policeman in your life, but you are paying taxes towards them. With everyone paying taxes into healthcare you know you're covered, you know your brothers and sisters are covered, your mum and your dad is covered. You should be grateful that you may never need to use those healthcare services, but by paying towards them in taxes you you will always know the safety net is there.

To the Miscer who said if someone has like 5% chance of living with a brain tumour why should the public pay for treatment. If that person was your mum would you say nah **** it, let her die?

America has a 3rd world healthcare system, ya'll are ****ing autistic if you think your system is better then any other first world country.

I'm Aussie btw, come at me
If we had giant spiders killing of our weak, healthcare would be cheap and universal here too.
post 1503665521 05-05-2017, 07:39 PM
-
#110
  1. Bloggs24
  2. Registered User
  1. Bloggs24
  2. Registered User
  3. Join Date: Apr 2014
  4. Age: 36
  5. Posts: 82
  6. Rep Power: 0
Originally Posted By sclimb⏩
If we had giant spiders killing of our weak, healthcare would be cheap and universal here too.
Ill take spiders over mountain lions and grizzly bears any day.
post 1503666071 05-05-2017, 07:44 PM
-
#111
  1. vt2medellin
  2. Registered User
  1. vt2medellin
  2. Registered User
  3. Join Date: Sep 2015
  4. Location: United States
  5. Posts: 1,147
  6. Rep Power: 2151
Lol no, you never have a right to another person's labor or resources.
Formerly MedellnMiscer, Currently BostonMiscer
post 1503667131 05-05-2017, 07:59 PM
-
#112
  1. Bloggs24
  2. Registered User
  1. Bloggs24
  2. Registered User
  3. Join Date: Apr 2014
  4. Age: 36
  5. Posts: 82
  6. Rep Power: 0
Originally Posted By vt2medellin⏩
Lol no, you never have a right to another person's labor or resources.
If you mama is being robbed, does she have a right to the police services?

If you house is on fire, do you have a right to the fire services?

Why should healthcare be any different?

Doctors and nurses dont become slaves all of a sudden, they still get paid. If all you *******s truly believed in capitalism, you would support cutting out the middleman (insurance companies) and negotiate prices directly with the healthcare providers and drug companies, a government that covers all it's citizens has more negotiating power to drive down costs. As proven by every other first world nations.

Buh buh buh but competition lower prices! Not when all the competition agree to work together to rip off consumers and make more money then they could by 'competing' with each other.
post 1503667311 05-05-2017, 08:01 PM
-
#113
  1. DatPass
  2. Registered User
  1. DatPass
  2. Registered User
  3. Join Date: Apr 2012
  4. Age: 42
  5. Posts: 13,413
  6. Rep Power: 26141
So many entitled kunts in here who cant imagine a situation in which THEY need help. Just LOL @ "the land of the free" complaining about sick people, your ancestors would be fkn DISGUSTED with what you've become, poor people not having access to healthcare is something you see in third world chitholes.


Just LOL @ "why should we pay for THEIR healthcare" when your corporations are waging billion dollar wars overseas and you don't say chit. Well, not until your sons come back maimed and you dont want to pay their medical bills.

Most of the American brahs in here have been so fooled by healthcare corporations and lobbyists that they have no concept of how it even works.


Just lol @ the "right" to own machineguns but not having the "right" for you child to not die of preventable disease if you're poor. What a warped sense of freedom.
**#3 always delivers crew**
**regularly rep accidentally instead of negging back crew**

"Train in difficult, trackless, wooded terrain. War makes heavy demands on a soldiers strength and nerves. For this reason make heavy demands on your men in peacetime." - Erwin Rommel: Infantry attacks
post 1503668421 05-05-2017, 08:14 PM
-
#114
  1. Hadtodoit
  2. Banned
  1. Hadtodoit
  2. Banned
  3. Join Date: Sep 2008
  4. Posts: 4,032
  5. Rep Power: 0
Originally Posted By Mythenthefang⏩
That's because you don't correctly grasp that competition is aprocessnot a static number of providers.

Where that process is frustrated by barriers to entry created by government is where suffering begins.
I think you misunderstood my first message, I'm very pro capitalism, just complaining about the lack of competition driving prices down.

So, since you think I'm missing something, teach me. I'll refresh this soon.

Let's say hypothetically there were originally 50 producers of bicycles. Capitalism at it's best, some fail, some excel and get rich, etc etc.

Over time those 50 turn into 10, because some failed, some were bought, etc. All normal.

What about when you fast forward another twenty years, and what if there are only two producers of bicycles TOTAL?

On top of that, the bicycles are now so complex and modern, and distribution is so complex across the whole US that there's absolutely no way your average Joe or even your rich Joe can start a company to compete. You simply couldn't.

Now these two providers still have to compete against each other, but let's just say they both decide to pay employees less. Before, if one company paid less, you'd go to the other company, simple. Now though, there's only two options for your skillset. Turns out, the company can keep the same profits and pay employees less because they don't have much of a choice. Sure they still compete against company B but they both know the deal.

What if both companies start charging a little more? If they both shake hands behind closed doors, profits through the roof. There's a little competition but not enough.



In my head, this is part of the problem with today's companies. You can't simply go compete with Apple and Android, or Delta and American Airlines, or this and that. At least, we're headed in the direction of two after they keep acquiring each other.



Is this not as big of a problem as I think it is? Teach me something, and please don't be biased.
post 1503668571 05-05-2017, 08:15 PM
-
#115
  1. iloveus
  2. snailsrus
  1. iloveus
  2. snailsrus
  3. Join Date: Sep 2014
  4. Posts: 33,694
  5. Rep Power: 105430
Originally Posted By Archangel_Lost⏩
America could probably afford universal healthcare (despite it generally being against the capitalist spirit of the nation's history) if we severely cut defense spending.

Which would be amusing to see... the first step would be going full isolationist, stop funding our allies, drop out of NATO, etc. That's not even counting cutting our home defense budget. How would these undefended countries with universal healthcare that have no military spending respond when big ol USA policing the world isn't there to defend them? US is getting ****ed over by these ******* countries that think the world would be fine when 1st world countries spend everything on entitlements, while countries like Iran and NK spend all on military and none on entitlements. Wonder how that would go if the US military disappeared.
We can cut other areas besides defense spending
Financial Freedom/Passive Income Crew
Entrepreneur Crew
MMA Crew
Cinematographer Crew
Photographer Crew
Ski/Snowboard Crew
Guns Crew
post 1503668591 05-05-2017, 08:16 PM
-
#116
  1. EdgarAllanBro
  2. Noble.
  1. EdgarAllanBro
  2. Noble.
  3. Join Date: May 2015
  4. Posts: 1,239
  5. Rep Power: 37160
Originally Posted By Iceman1800⏩
It may not be a right but it should be affordable in a civilized society. The same ones complaining about tax dollars going towards health care don't seem to mind tax dollars going to foreigncountries like Israel.
Check out "Against our Better Judgment: The hidden history of how the US was used to create Israel"

If i was minister of finance, FIRST thing i would do is cut all foreign aid. don't care if it's for defense, food, aids relief, and don't care what happens to them.
Life passes most people by while they're making grand plans for it. Throughout my lifetime, I've left pieces of my heart here and there. And now, there's almost not enough to stay alive. But I force a smile, knowing that my ambition far exceeded my talent. There are no more white horses or pretty ladies at my door.

**Spends cab money on more shots and takes ambulance home crew**
post 1503669041 05-05-2017, 08:21 PM
-
#117
  1. butwhowasgains
  2. Neet slayer
  1. butwhowasgains
  2. Neet slayer
  3. Join Date: Dec 2015
  4. Location: New Zealand
  5. Posts: 12,680
  6. Rep Power: 77894
Originally Posted By Hadtodoit⏩
I think you misunderstood my first message, I'm very pro capitalism, just complaining about the lack of competition driving prices down.

So, since you think I'm missing something, teach me. I'll refresh this soon.

Let's say hypothetically there were originally 50 producers of bicycles. Capitalism at it's best, some fail, some excel and get rich, etc etc.

Over time those 50 turn into 10, because some failed, some were bought, etc. All normal.

What about when you fast forward another twenty years, and what if there are only two producers of bicycles TOTAL?

On top of that, the bicycles are now so complex and modern, and distribution is so complex across the whole US that there's absolutely no way your average Joe or even your rich Joe can start a company to compete. You simply couldn't.

Now these two providers still have to compete against each other, but let's just say they both decide to pay employees less. Before, if one company paid less, you'd go to the other company, simple. Now though, there's only two options for your skillset. Turns out, the company can keep the same profits and pay employees less because they don't have much of a choice. Sure they still compete against company B but they both know the deal.

What if both companies start charging a little more? If they both shake hands behind closed doors, profits through the roof. There's a little competition but not enough.



In my head, this is part of the problem with today's companies. You can't simply go compete with Apple and Android, or Delta and American Airlines, or this and that. At least, we're headed in the direction of two after they keep acquiring each other.



Is this not as big of a problem as I think it is? Teach me something, and please don't be biased.
This has always been one of the things that confused me about laissez faire economics.

The natural progression of unregulated, competitive markets is always towards oligopoly or monopoly.

Pls someone explain why this is wrong.
I have a dream, that one day, my username will be ironic.

Chairman of the purge.

Every post by this user is made soley for the enjoyment of cia analysts.
post 1503669671 05-05-2017, 08:29 PM
-
#118
  1. vt2medellin
  2. Registered User
  1. vt2medellin
  2. Registered User
  3. Join Date: Sep 2015
  4. Location: United States
  5. Posts: 1,147
  6. Rep Power: 2151
Originally Posted By Bloggs24⏩
If you mama is being robbed, does she have a right to the police services?
If you house is on fire, do you have a right to the fire services?
Why should healthcare be any different?
People own themselves and exist in time. To take somebody's life is to take their future, to take somebody's liberty is to take their present and to take somebody's property is to take the part of their past that produced it. True freedom is having the right to one's life, liberty and property. Life, liberty and property can be infringed upon by government or by individuals, and each is equally bad. A police force exists to protect citizen's lives, liberties and property, and though it requires some extortion (taxation) to pay for it, that is a less flagrant violation of the right to life, liberty and property than the constant murder, enslavement and theft that would occur without a police force. On the other hand, medical services require much more extortion, and they don't actually protect the negative rights of citizens from one another, which is the only legitimate role of government.
Originally Posted By Bloggs24⏩
Doctors and nurses dont become slaves all of a sudden, they still get paid. If all you *******s truly believed in capitalism, you would support cutting out the middleman (insurance companies) and negotiate prices directly with the healthcare providers and drug companies, a government that covers all it's citizens has more negotiating power to drive down costs. As proven by every other first world nations.
You have two options, enslave medical professionals or extort everybody else to pay the medical professionals. Either way it's a violation of negative freedom. That's a hilariously inaccurate straw-man, capitalism isn't against sharing profit or risk, it just makes sure transactions are consensual. Health insurance would still be fine so long as people bought it on their own volition.
Originally Posted By Bloggs24⏩
Buh buh buh but competition lower prices! Not when all the competition agree to work together to rip off consumers and make more money then they could by 'competing' with each other.
Game theory make collusion very unlikely, if not impossible. Government, on the other hand, enacts berries of entry which keep potential competitors out and makes collusion more likely. If we use your solution, healthcare becomes a full monopoly, which is worse than a mostly competitive market.
Formerly MedellnMiscer, Currently BostonMiscer
post 1503670871 05-05-2017, 08:42 PM
-
#119
  1. FlexLex
  2. Registered User
  1. FlexLex
  2. Registered User
  3. Join Date: Apr 2010
  4. Location: New Jersey, United States
  5. Age: 35
  6. Posts: 12,399
  7. Rep Power: 38867
Originally Posted By vt2medellin⏩
People own themselves and exist in time. To take somebody's life is to take their future, to take somebody's liberty is to take their present and to take somebody's property is to take the part of their past that produced it. True freedom is having the right to one's life, liberty and property. Life, liberty and property can be infringed upon by government or by individuals, and each is equally bad. A police force exists to protect citizen's lives, liberties and property, and though it requires some extortion (taxation) to pay for it, that is a less flagrant violation of the right to life, liberty and property than the constant murder, enslavement and theft that would occur without a police force. On the other hand, medical services require much more extortion, and they don't actually protect the negative rights of citizens from one another, which is the only legitimate role of government.


You have two options, enslave medical professionals or extort everybody else to pay the medical professionals. Either way it's a violation of negative freedom. That's a hilariously inaccurate straw-man, capitalism isn't against sharing profit or risk, it just makes sure transactions are consensual. Health insurance would still be fine so long as people bought it on their own volition.


Game theory make collusion very unlikely, if not impossible. Government, on the other hand, enacts berries of entry which keep potential competitors out and makes collusion more likely. If we use your solution, healthcare becomes a full monopoly, which is worse than a mostly competitive market.
So are you also against public parks, roads, bridges, and schools, or are we being a hypocrite here? None of those things are rights that protect you aginst someone else, all are paid through "extortion", or in non primitive terms, taxation.
Phila crew
Healthcare Crew
post 1503672221 05-05-2017, 08:57 PM
-
#120
  1. SicilianPower
  2. Registered Anti-Hero
  1. SicilianPower
  2. Registered Anti-Hero
  3. Join Date: Aug 2013
  4. Location: Bronx, New York, United States
  5. Posts: 9,395
  6. Rep Power: 47886
I believe it should be, regardless of what our constitution says and doesn't say. because our constitution was about liberty and freedom, it is important but also incomplete in serval ways. I believe people should be provided a basic standard of living healthcare included. I believe we should go back to the what healthcare was before Obama and just expand Medicaid to people who make 55,000 and under and then people who make more can purchase higher quality health insurance. I am mostly conservative, but not in all ways. I am pro life, pro 1st amendment, pro strong borders, pro 2nd amendment, anti tobacco and alcohol, pro medical marijuana, anti religious freedom, I believe in climate change, anti fracking, I am a militarist, I but lean left economically and on the healthcare issue. Being pro life I believe protecting life in all ways whether unborn or born. Nobody should be in a position where they don't have minimum standard healthcare.
*MMA Crew
*Boxing Crew
*Agnostic Crew
*Wavy Hair Crew
*Right-Wing Crew
*INTP (Logician) Crew
*Hazel-Green Eyes Crew
Quick Navigation Top Misc
Bookmarks
Digg.com
Digg
del.icio.us
del.icio.us
Stumbleupon.com
StumbleUpon
Google.com
Google
Facebook.com
Facebook
Posting Permissions
  1. You may not post new threads
  2. You may not post replies
  3. You may not post attachments
  4. You may not edit your posts