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Forum » I'm starting to believe protein intake is a myth
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Thread: I'm starting to believe protein intake is a myth

post 1512436651 07-17-2017, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted By vsportsguy⏩
Day 1. I'll re-evaluate on Sep 1.


Carbs are strongly correlated with strength, not protein. You wont find a competitive powerlifter in the world prepping on low carb. It's bodybuilders who drop their carbs and keep the protein high while dieting and they end up weak as fuk.

Ever done keto? It drops weight fast, but it's also a good way to lose all your strength in the gym.
my mind is blown that bodybuilders do low carb. it's a diet designed for the sedentary morbidly obese who have very low draws on glycogen repletion
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post 1512436691 07-17-2017, 01:17 PM
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1g/kg body weight is all you really need, TBQH.
post 1512437321 07-17-2017, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted By Ratfish⏩
no way in fukk you're getting anywhere near 400g with fruit unless you live in the bathroom or wear diapers srs
Not really. I start each day with a breakfast smoothie that contains about 226carbs, and immediately after I snack on trail mix, about another 30+ grams of carbs.

Then throughout the day I will have about another 5 to 6 servings of fruit and 4 to 5 servings of veggies and some grains.

My digestive system runs like clockwork. 5 to 6 healthy shots a day between 9am and 3 pm. Then I am pretty much set until the following day.
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post 1512437421 07-17-2017, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted By MyGhettoFantasy⏩
Not really. I start each day with a breakfast smoothie that contains about 226carbs, and immediately after I snack on trail mix, about another 30+ grams of carbs.

Then throughout the day I will have about another 5 to 6 servings of fruit and 4 to 5 servings of veggies and some grains.

My digestive system runs like clockwork. 5 to 6 healthy shots a day between 9am and 3 pm. Then I am pretty much set until the following day.
5 to 6 chits a day?

lmao
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post 1512438391 07-17-2017, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted By Ratfish⏩
5 to 6 chits a day?

lmao
Lol. Yep.

You are spot on the money that carbs sourced from whole foods is a lot of physical material.
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post 1512438661 07-17-2017, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted By midcoastking33⏩
average american diet is over 50g, i think you'd really have to go out of your way to achieve it
Yeah, you're actually right. Things like oatmeal are even pretty high protein on this diet. I'll see how it plays out but my plan was to eat mostly brown rice and fruit for carbs and mostly nuts and seeds for fat and let the protein fall wherever.
post 1512439581 07-17-2017, 01:36 PM
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I am trying to figure out why high carb low fat work so well for me.
I eat about 5000+ kcal a day, 1000g carbs, ~150-200g protein, 30g fat.
Too much fat makes me slow, too much protein makes me slow too. 150-200g is already kind of much for me, but I eat tons of wheat for carbs and they come with lots of protein (64g carb 14g protein per 100g wheat, so if I were to eat 500g worth of carbs from wheat I already have 70g protein).
Eating like this gives me unlimited energy almost, never fatigue, can keep going and going and going. Have appetite like crazy though, eating all day, but not gaining weight at all.
Libido is sky high aswell, getting random boners constantly throughout the day.

I considered the Randle cycle as possibility to explain this difference, by optimizing glucose as preferred fuel source for mitochondria rather than fatty acid oxidation.

(Randle cycle:"In 1963, Lancet published a paper by Randle et al. that proposed a “glucose-fatty acid cycle” to describe fuel flux between and fuel selection by tissues. The original biochemical mechanism explained the inhibition of glucose oxidation by fatty acids. Since then, the principle has been confirmed by many investigators.")

"Switching from glucose to fatty acid oxidation leads to a bigger proportion of electrons being transported to complex 2 rather than complex 1 of the respiratory chain. This difference leads to a less efficient oxidative phosphorylation. By oxidizing fatty acids, mitochondria increase their respiration while increasing the production of ROS"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19531645(full:http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/297/3/E578)


I know of atleast 2 other people with extremely beneficial effects with this method of eating aswell. The only "fear" I have all the time is of that study that says low fat makes low test, but I have been on this path for about 5 months now and have yet to notice anything that indicates that.
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post 1512439891 07-17-2017, 01:39 PM
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post 1512440311 07-17-2017, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted By MyGhettoFantasy⏩
My digestive system runs like clockwork. 5 to 6 healthy shots a day between 9am and 3 pm. Then I am pretty much set until the following day.
That is a good sign, it is sign of very optimal thyroid hormone profile. I wonder what TSH value you have. I have about 3-4 bowel movements daily, perhaps it could be more if I ate more whole grains. I have to eat a lot of refined ones like white rice porridge, else it is too hard for me to stack on the amount of calories that I wish to eat with my amount of physical activity.
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post 1512440831 07-17-2017, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted By PhilosophusKing⏩
That is a good sign, it is sign of very optimal thyroid hormone profile. I wonder what TSH value you have. I have about 3-4 bowel movements daily, perhaps it could be more if I ate more whole grains. I have to eat a lot of refined ones like white rice porridge, else it is too hard for me to stack on the amount of calories that I wish to eat with my amount of physical activity.
Adding oatmeal to a smoothie is a good way to add grains. I began with 1 dry serving (28carbs) and as my demands and appetite grew that has increased to 3 dry servings (84carbs).
The closer we approach the uncertainty of life's ending the more we wish to trade all of the things we have acquired in exchange for all of the things we have lost: wealth for youth, knowledge for fresh curiosity, resignation for hope. We'd trade our wisdom for new experiences, but it is wisdom that will teach us that at the end of the road the only new experience is death.
post 1512441351 07-17-2017, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted By vsportsguy⏩
Not for months on end you tard. But yes I did do it for 2 weeks. There was a point in time where I thought more protein meant more gains so I wanted to see what happened if I ate almost exclusively protein. It didn't work out so well.
2 weeks. Not quite a clinical study, there.
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post 1512441861 07-17-2017, 01:56 PM
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I take in 75-78 grams of protein a day, I don't feel weaker nor do I notice a difference.
post 1512442911 07-17-2017, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted By MyGhettoFantasy⏩
Adding oatmeal to a smoothie is a good way to add grains. I began with 1 dry serving (28carbs) and as my demands and appetite grew that has increased to 3 dry servings (84carbs).
I eat one bowl of oatmeal a day. It contains too much of protein/fat vs carbs to rely on exclusively for me. I need to stick below 25-30g fats/day else I feel less optimal. I experimented about 10 times increasing my fat intake to 50-60g. Every single time I feel worse than before immediately, very weird.

I eat steamed & ground down wheat flakes in a shake if I do not have enough time to eat food using chewing.

I want to cut down on protein intake though, I feel better at 100-150g daily rather than 200g. Social situations put me in the position of eating chit I do not always want though. I also take in too much skim milk, need to lower it for sure. I am much calmer mentally aswell on a lower protein intake.

How much calories do you take in daily? If I go below 4000 kcal daily I am hungry a lot and I start losing weight very slowly, while I am already very lean.
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post 1512443321 07-17-2017, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted By BlackScorpio91⏩
I take in 75-78 grams of protein a day, I don't feel weaker nor do I notice a difference.
@BlackScorpio91 & rest, the protein amounts mentioned in grams they refer to TOTAL protein consumption per day including protein from sources like grains etc.? Or do they refer to protein-exclusive foods like meat etc.? I do not understand how people eat only 50g protein a day? Doesn't just eating grains put you over 50g already at like 3000 kcal?

(Just looking to clarify the above to avoid confusion.)
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post 1512444011 07-17-2017, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted By PhilosophusKing⏩
I am trying to figure out why high carb low fat work so well for me.
I eat about 5000+ kcal a day, 1000g carbs, ~150-200g protein, 30g fat.
Too much fat makes me slow, too much protein makes me slow too. 150-200g is already kind of much for me, but I eat tons of wheat for carbs and they come with lots of protein (64g carb 14g protein per 100g wheat, so if I were to eat 500g worth of carbs from wheat I already have 70g protein).
Eating like this gives me unlimited energy almost, never fatigue, can keep going and going and going. Have appetite like crazy though, eating all day, but not gaining weight at all.
Libido is sky high aswell, getting random boners constantly throughout the day.

I considered the Randle cycle as possibility to explain this difference, by optimizing glucose as preferred fuel source for mitochondria rather than fatty acid oxidation.

(Randle cycle:"In 1963, Lancet published a paper by Randle et al. that proposed a “glucose-fatty acid cycle” to describe fuel flux between and fuel selection by tissues. The original biochemical mechanism explained the inhibition of glucose oxidation by fatty acids. Since then, the principle has been confirmed by many investigators.")

"Switching from glucose to fatty acid oxidation leads to a bigger proportion of electrons being transported to complex 2 rather than complex 1 of the respiratory chain. This difference leads to a less efficient oxidative phosphorylation. By oxidizing fatty acids, mitochondria increase their respiration while increasing the production of ROS"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19531645(full:http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/297/3/E578)


I know of atleast 2 other people with extremely beneficial effects with this method of eating aswell. The only "fear" I have all the time is of that study that says low fat makes low test, but I have been on this path for about 5 months now and have yet to notice anything that indicates that.
i do the same except not that much in the way of carbs. i did notice that if i keep fat low enough, it doesn't matter how much carbs or even alcohol i consume, i won't get fatter
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post 1512444251 07-17-2017, 02:15 PM
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will make no difference for majority of individuals
genetics trumps that
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post 1512444531 07-17-2017, 02:17 PM
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Its the new fat free, sugar free(but aspartame instead), miniscule% of fiber in processed **** food fad

Everything is advertised as "high in protein" or "x amount of protein per serving"

The BCAA thing is out of hand too. No one needs that ****.
post 1512444541 07-17-2017, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted By Ratfish⏩
i do the same except not that much in the way of carbs. i did notice that if i keep fat low enough, it doesn't matter how much carbs or even alcohol i consume, i won't get fatter
Yup, I CANNOT increase body fat at all on this low fat. It just doesn't happen, and I am non-stop eating carbs the whole day almost.
I remember reading a 1970s study(tried to find it again, couldn't right now, will retry tomorrow)about carbohydrate overfeeding on low fat diet (like 10g-20g/day fat). They were shoving in thousands of calories, and subjects just couldn't get fat despite being sedentary. De novo lipogenesis produced only like a few grams of fat for every 500g of carbs...

I am only concernced with my hormones in this way, if de novo lipogenesis is so inefficient I wonder how efficient glycolysis from pyruvate to acetyl coa is in synthesizing cholesterol for my hormone production. I suppose if I notice good libido/mood there is no problem. I am sure if I had never used the internet I couldn't care less about all this crap and would just follow my gut feeling, but those low fat -> bad hormone studies haunt me :P
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post 1512444931 07-17-2017, 02:19 PM
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sound like my brother who's a raw vegan fruitarian who believes in a high carb/low fat diet. he tells everyone you don't need the protein they're all like, "WTF?". He lost 150 lbs on raw vegan too, he runs 5x a week, marathons and conquered too man 5K's and ****. He doesn't use deodorant and juices (the veggies that is) like a human blender and the whole food, he eats like a rabbit.
post 1512444991 07-17-2017, 02:20 PM
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i eat what I want, when I want though. I love meat. and milk. F you brother
post 1512445091 07-17-2017, 02:21 PM
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Higher protein doesn't keep your satiety in check as you get towards your goal leaness in a cut? (For example, coming down from 15% to 10% or 11%?) I'm not naturally lean. When I do a sensible (i.e. 20-25%) caloric deficit down to a measly 10% bf, my hunger shoots up. Protein, whether it's in a vegetable or steak enables me to not go over my caloric deficit.

Don't get me wrong, I love carbs. I'd eat fibrous complex and some simple carbs all day long. But by the time I'm done eating gallons of vegetables and other protein sources to help my satiety in check, my protein intake is unfortunately through the roof.

That's really the only reason why my protein intake is so high.

My fats are always in the high 60 - 80 range. More peanut butter doesn't keep me full.
post 1512445381 07-17-2017, 02:23 PM
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Idk brah I went from a vegetarian diet (~30-50 gm of protein) to eating steak and ground beef every day (~200 g/day) and grew stronger, recomped and lost about 4-6% body fat and over felt so much better. I have the progress pics in this thread


https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showt...hp?t=174006391
post 1512445821 07-17-2017, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted By AshWar⏩
Idk brah I went from a vegetarian diet (~30-50 gm of protein) to eating steak and ground beef every day (~200 g/day) and grew stronger, recomped and lost about 4-6% body fat and over felt so much better. I have the progress pics in this thread


https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showt...hp?t=174006391
How did you eat only 30-50g protein though? I don't understand that. Like grains have about 10g per ~350 calories usually already? Did you only eat things like fruits and vegetables then or (where the calories at)?
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post 1512445881 07-17-2017, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted By PhilosophusKing⏩
@BlackScorpio91 & rest, the protein amounts mentioned in grams they refer to TOTAL protein consumption per day including protein from sources like grains etc.? Or do they refer to protein-exclusive foods like meat etc.? I do not understand how people eat only 50g protein a day? Doesn't just eating grains put you over 50g already at like 3000 kcal?

(Just looking to clarify the above to avoid confusion.)
Yes it would. You mention eating 5000 calories. I would imagine you're an endurance athlete like a cyclist or something. My maintenance is around 2700-2800 kcal. I'm on a cut so I'll start at around ~2350 kcal. 50g protein might have been a little bit of an underestimation for me. Again, I need to see how it plays out. Even oatmeal is too high of a percentage of protein as 2300 calories worth of oatmeal is about 75g protein. I'm going to see where it falls eating primarily grains, fruit, nuts, veggies, and maybe a bit of dairy if I can fit it in but I'm not going to go out of my way to keep protein lower. I'm just eliminating high protein foods.
post 1512445941 07-17-2017, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted By PhilosophusKing⏩
How did you eat only 30-50g protein though? I don't understand that. Like grains have about 10g per ~350 calories usually already? Did you only eat things like fruits and vegetables then or (where the calories at)?
I was eating a ton of salads, breads, potatoes rice etc. Not more than 1500 kcal and mostly from carbs
post 1512446001 07-17-2017, 02:29 PM
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For what it's worth, I can put on lean mass easier and stay leaner with high protein, moderate carbs, moderate fats. When I'm trying to increase strength, I up the carbs a ton, but it's definitely not clean weight.
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Originally Posted By PhilosophusKing⏩
Yup, I CANNOT increase body fat at all on this low fat. It just doesn't happen, and I am non-stop eating carbs the whole day almost.
I remember reading a 1970s study(tried to find it again, couldn't right now, will retry tomorrow)about carbohydrate overfeeding on low fat diet (like 10g-20g/day fat). They were shoving in thousands of calories, and subjects just couldn't get fat despite being sedentary. De novo lipogenesis produced only like a few grams of fat for every 500g of carbs...

I am only concernced with my hormones in this way, if de novo lipogenesis is so inefficient I wonder how efficient glycolysis from pyruvate to acetyl coa is in synthesizing cholesterol for my hormone production. I suppose if I notice good libido/mood there is no problem. I am sure if I had never used the internet I couldn't care less about all this crap and would just follow my gut feeling, but those low fat -> bad hormone studies haunt me :P
i believe libido is the ultimate bellwether for overall endocrine balance. ignorant people are always telling people to eat a bunch of saturated fat because our body uses it to make test. not sure if srs. i've never noticed a bit of difference with super high vs very low fat

the only way fat intake affects hormones is via enterohepatic recirculation. not sure how dramatic it would be though
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post 1512447161 07-17-2017, 02:38 PM
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I've tried it, it doesn't work.

My body can't recover at 50g protein. Around 100+ is about the minimum I think.
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post 1512449871 07-17-2017, 03:02 PM
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my protein intake is around g/lb (roughly 200g) but its more to control my total cal intake rather than more protein=gains.

most of my protein comes from chicken and fish, and therefore i feel full after consuming a meal and dont overeat. if i halfed my protein and doubled my carbs, id end up tripiling my carbs from not being full and end up fat
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