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Forum » Elon Musk can't build a profitable solar company
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Thread: Elon Musk can't build a profitable solar company

post 1512912351 07-21-2017, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted By MiscInformed⏩
You've watched too many movies. AI can only do what it's programmed to do. It won't spontaneously develop consciousness. It's not Skynet.

http://www.computerworld.com/article...-advances.html
There is no way of predicting anything after a technological singularity. You're short sighted if you're soothed by anything computer scientists say they cant predict the outcome of such an event. I'm not even saying it will ever happen but even just 300 years ago no one could have predicted our current situation. Where will things be in another 300?
post 1512912621 07-21-2017, 10:31 AM
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#62
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Originally Posted By BDSMBBW⏩
Miscers are criticising one of the greatest entrepreneurs alive now? Really u guys know the market better than musk , surely. You've spent all of 10 minutes using google to learn about the solar market. Yes, surely you are experts of economics and musk is a dunce idiot moron who has wasted 10+ years doing business in the particular market. yep. makes sense.
Originally Posted By mynameisuntz⏩
This. Whatever you think of his mission short-term, it's a long-term necessity.
Originally Posted By MBisonSon⏩
Misc are a bunch of haters who can't give credit.

Musk did nothing, aside from design the first commercially viable electric car

People with that kind of ambition and vision are the ones that advance society as a whole.

That's why the guy is getting money thrown at him left and right, no different than Da Vinci being funded back in the 1500's or w/e.

I'm not saying Musk is the guy who gets us to a civilization capable of significant space travel, but if/when that happens he will no doubt be credited in history as one of the people who helped paved the way.
Not sure why you guys pretend to understand what is going on here. You use a chitton of various types of carbon fuels to produce the power for Tesla's EVs. The carbon footprint is largely the same. The biggest innovators in the Solar arena are the Utility companies, specially ones here in Southern California.

I wish NDA's would not prevent me from discussing some of our clients with you. The problem is you don't understand how electricity is generated, transmitted and distributed, yet you feel qualified to comment on solar energy, EVs and battery technology.

I've personally designed commercial / institutional projects where we actually saved a chitton of energy using various material, methods and systems... FAR larger savings than an EV could ever provide simply because it still consumes power. It's difficult to have an intelligent discussion with people who don't understand chit about technology and engineering, yet feel qualified to comment on "way of the future" nonsense.

Always amazes me how people who don't know chit come in here and "contribute" yet act salty as hell when someone speaks the truth. We get it, you want an ironman suit to fly to the moon, but that's just not how it works.
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post 1512912971 07-21-2017, 10:33 AM
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this guy is the biggest scam artist lol

i still don't understand why people think this guy is some kind of revolutionary when all he does is go after the tax dollars
post 1512913011 07-21-2017, 10:34 AM
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#64
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Originally Posted By MiscInformed⏩
You've watched too many movies. AI can only do what it's programmed to do. It won't spontaneously develop consciousness. It's not Skynet.

http://www.computerworld.com/article...-advances.html
Let me preface by saying I'm not making the claim that AIwillbe destructive, but that itcouldbe. Further, I do not believe we should slow AI researchat all. Instead, I am simply suggesting we should be a bit more prepared for currently unforeseen contingencies rather than moving full steam ahead without much thought for negative consequences.

Consciousness is an irrelevant question regarding AI. The only question is what AI is designed to do, and if its goals (even those constructed by humans) are ever at odds with our own survival. At that point it's not a matter of whether AI is malicious, but whether it'scompetentin sacrificing our own values for its programmed task. The construction of AI is not a unified effort: what AI might look like when constructed in the US will differ from how it is constructed in China or Russia. My concerns pertain to all of these efforts given that there is no unifying agreement about how to go about creating AI. This partly contradicts your claim that AI can only do what it's programmed to do: if any one group advancing AI allows it to re-write its code, then your claim is erroneous.

A lot of my belief in wanting to be better prepared than we currently are comes from Stuart Russell, a computer scientist at Berkeley.
Originally Posted By MBisonSon⏩
I find it highly unlikely that humans would be able to physically make something that will spontaneously develop consciousness, when we don't even have the slightest clue about our own consciousness, and keep in mind that's something that's inside of us, which is to say you'd think we'd have a better understanding of it.
Again: consciousness is irrelevant. What is most frightening is two ingredients combined:

1) Values that are at-odds with our own.
2) Competence.

The first concern can stem from miscalculating the programming, or allowing AI to re-write its code. Either one can result in small discrepancies between what humans want and what the AI "wants."

The second concern stems from the fact that, eventually, AI will be far better than any human at anything.

Taking these two points together you don'tneedmaliciousness or consciousness: you just need an AI that isreally, reallygood at completing a task that does notperfectlyalign with human values.
All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.
post 1512913211 07-21-2017, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted By Vexidi⏩
There is no way of predicting anything after a technological singularity. You're short sighted if you're soothed by anything computer scientists say they cant predict the outcome of such an event. I'm not even saying it will ever happen but even just 300 years ago no one could have predicted our current situation. Where will things be in another 300?
Do you think we'll actually create consciousness while not understanding our own consciousness?

The probability of that is so unlikely, it's something you'd see in a movie but I can't see it being realistic.

That's not to say that stuff isn't what lies ahead, it's almost definitely where we're going but it's not possible until we better understand ourselves.

Who's even to say it's gonna be 'Humans vs. Machines' and not humans essentially "becoming machines" by merging with technology, that seems more likely and we even have (albeit weak) examples of this already.
The billionaire and the beggar both have 24 hours in a day.

That's why grandma's apple pie rocks and yours sucks.
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn
At least it will thunderstorm tonight, and we know how they feel about water. :)
^^^Racist police officer who also cries about how racism doesn't exist, also cries reverse racism and typifies the stupidity of the racist right, referring to black people as "they" and regurgitating racist stereotypes.
post 1512913231 07-21-2017, 10:36 AM
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He's either a con man or a genius. I'm not sure which........but I'm leaning towards genius.
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post 1512913341 07-21-2017, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted By PisseninMisc⏩
Not sure why you guys pretend to understand what is going on here. You use a chitton of various types of carbon fuels to produce the power for Tesla's EVs. The carbon footprint is largely the same. The biggest innovators in the Solar arena are the Utility companies, specially ones here in Southern California.

I wish NDA's would not prevent me from discussing some of our clients with you. The problem is you don't understand how electricity is generated, transmitted and distributed, yet you feel qualified to comment on solar energy, EVs and battery technology.

I've personally designed commercial / institutional projects where we actually saved a chitton of energy using various material, methods and systems... FAR larger savings than an EV could ever provide simply because it still consumes power. It's difficult to have an intelligent discussion with people who don't understand chit about technology and engineering, yet feel qualified to comment on "way of the future" nonsense.

Always amazes me how people who don't know chit come in here and "contribute" yet act salty as hell when someone speaks the truth. We get it, you want an ironman suit to fly to the moon, but that's just not how it works.
This is just one giant straw man so I don't feel compelled to respond and defend beliefs I do not hold which you have, for whatever reason, assigned to me.
All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.
post 1512913811 07-21-2017, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted By PisseninMisc⏩
Not sure why you guys pretend to understand what is going on here. You use a chitton of various types of carbon fuels to produce the power for Tesla's EVs. The carbon footprint is largely the same. The biggest innovators in the Solar arena are the Utility companies, specially ones here in Southern California.

I wish NDA's would not prevent me from discussing some of our clients with you. The problem is you don't understand how electricity is generated, transmitted and distributed, yet you feel qualified to comment on solar energy, EVs and battery technology.

I've personally designed commercial / institutional projects where we actually saved a chitton of energy using various material, methods and systems... FAR larger savings than an EV could ever provide simply because it still consumes power. It's difficult to have an intelligent discussion with people who don't understand chit about technology and engineering, yet feel qualified to comment on "way of the future" nonsense.

Always amazes me how people who don't know chit come in here and "contribute" yet act salty as hell when someone speaks the truth. We get it, you want an ironman suit to fly to the moon, but that's just not how it works.
No you're just being a close minded retard who's basically saying that because the future's not here right now, it'll never be.

Sit there and read that a few times and try and wrap your head around how dumb you actually sound.

You're saying electric cars won't make it because they're inefficient vs. other current technology while completely ignoring that the first commercially viable one was made, what? 10 years ago?

That's like expecting a wheel made of stone to outperform the Goodyear's on your car, and also failing to acknowledge your Goodyear's were made possible by that stone wheel.

You can try and throw your degrees and job title around as much as you want to appear smart but you're biffing on logic and looking like one of those 'smart dumb guys' who can memorize books but can't think critically.
The billionaire and the beggar both have 24 hours in a day.

That's why grandma's apple pie rocks and yours sucks.
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn
At least it will thunderstorm tonight, and we know how they feel about water. :)
^^^Racist police officer who also cries about how racism doesn't exist, also cries reverse racism and typifies the stupidity of the racist right, referring to black people as "they" and regurgitating racist stereotypes.
post 1512914171 07-21-2017, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted By mynameisuntz⏩
This is just one giant straw man so I don't feel compelled to respond and defend beliefs I do not hold which you have, for whatever reason, assigned to me.
That's perfect, because you are not qualified to respond. You should really sit quietly in a room more often in lieu of commenting on topics you don't understand.

Edit: This was an asinine comment. My bad I got worked up.
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post 1512914351 07-21-2017, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted By celltechbrahz⏩
I'm convinced the dude is just a govt poster child for all their pet projects. His companies are extremely overvalued and pumped endlessly full of cash and he is funded for any number of unrelated things that are always publicized to no end. No way he's even remotely engaged in all this stuff. They want to build him up as a knock off Nikola Tesla as a means to sell all these various initiatives.
Same with Mark Zuckerberg. When the CIA created ******** as part of their spy program, they installed a Harvard dropout as a tool to fool the masses to do all speeches on promoting socal media and blah blah.

Yet, gullible sheeps still haven't figured out why privacy setting is fading away and how these random "suggested friends" they haven't met since 15 years ago pop up out of nowhere on their profiles. If only they knew what FB is capable of and what their apps can do when they're not on their phones.
post 1512914411 07-21-2017, 10:47 AM
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#71
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Originally Posted By PisseninMisc⏩
That's perfect, because you are not qualified to respond. You should really sit quietly in a room more often in lieu of commenting on topics you don't understand.
Coming from the person who couldn't even understand my initial post and then went on a multiple-paragraph diatribe betraying his low reading comprehension?
All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.
post 1512914451 07-21-2017, 10:47 AM
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#72
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Originally Posted By PisseninMisc⏩
Electrical engineer checking in. If you invested in tesla and look at it as a vehicle to cash in and out of... that's one thing.

If you think any of Musk's products including the EVs, the "revolutionary" home battery panel, etc. are engineering marvels just lol at you.

Source: Licensed / degreed EE with 10 years exp, our consulting firm has worked for tesla, and I live about 10 minutes from their HQ in Hawthorne, CA
I'll bet you got a sweet pocket protector.
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post 1512914561 07-21-2017, 10:49 AM
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#73
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Originally Posted By goodcupcakes⏩
Well if he got the subsidies oil, gas, and coal got maybe he could be a fukton more profitable. You know Saudi Arabia is the biggest sponsor of terrorism worldwide but we have to keep pretending we are buddy buddies with them why? Because of their oil reserves. Wouldn't it be nice to not be dependent on a backwards nation that hates us with its every breath and wishes we were dead? If Musk's plan to power the US with solar panels in a 100x100 mile array is legit then WHO THE FUK CARES ABOUT PROFIT if it means we can be energy independent from terrorist fuks like the Saudis. If we were serious about terrorism then this should be our number one goal.
LMAO!!! Gas/oil is also taxed at around 25-50 cents per gallon depending on each state. Instead of making 3 grades - Diesel, 89 and 92, they are required by each state to make specific grades which costs a chit ton more. You idiots know that there's oil just off shore, but they are forced to build rigs far out due to regulations. Due to that the max penalty was something like $250mil, yet we fined BP 10's of billions. Yeah, they really catch a break.

brb.. average oil field worker making 100k
brb.. Tesla importing Eastern European slave labor to work in their factories
post 1512914721 07-21-2017, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted By twovalvekid⏩
You're right. If there wasn't already a technology that could provide the 50%+ base load required for the grid cheaply, with basically 0 carbon footprint...

Oh wait...

our species has repeatedly shown that it's too stupid for nuclear srs

nuke plants as they exist now aren't very feasible economically in reality

if we moved to thorium reactors or something it'd be a different story
Make Europe Germany Again
post 1512914751 07-21-2017, 10:51 AM
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musk got cucked by the same woman twice and now he's going to get cucked out of the electric car game too
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post 1512914801 07-21-2017, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted By Vexidi⏩
There is no way of predicting anything after atechnological singularity. You're short sighted if you're soothed by anything computer scientists say they cant predict the outcome of such an event. I'm not even saying it will ever happen but even just 300 years ago no one could have predicted our current situation. Where will things be in another 300?
That's gibberish. I used to design chips. It's just transistors switching on and off. An MCU/MPU can only do what it's programmed to do by humans. Even if the program is adaptive, it's still following rules set down by humans. There could be malicious code that hurts us, but that's not AI doing it... that's people writing malicious code. We could be wiped out tomorrow due to software bugs in the code that controls nuclear missile launches (theoretically speaking), but that's not AI killing us like Musk and Hawking are warning about.

AI like Skynet is science fiction.
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post 1512914811 07-21-2017, 10:51 AM
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#77
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Originally Posted By MiscInformed⏩
He's a fraud. Without government subsidies, all of his business would have already failed.
Id like to hear your thoughts on all of the big corps relying on govt subsidies too.

Go on...
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post 1512915071 07-21-2017, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted By Ratfish⏩
our species has repeatedly shown that it's too stupid for nuclear srs
Right now.

If we keep trying we'll eventually figure it out.

The real problem is it's so powerful/potentially destructive that the margins for error are much smaller.

But as we keep getting a better and better grasp of harnessing it that's gonna be another thing essentially propelling us towards the future.
The billionaire and the beggar both have 24 hours in a day.

That's why grandma's apple pie rocks and yours sucks.
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn
At least it will thunderstorm tonight, and we know how they feel about water. :)
^^^Racist police officer who also cries about how racism doesn't exist, also cries reverse racism and typifies the stupidity of the racist right, referring to black people as "they" and regurgitating racist stereotypes.
post 1512915121 07-21-2017, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted By twovalvekid⏩
You're right. If there wasn't already a technology that could provide the 50%+ base load required for the grid cheaply, with basically 0 carbon footprint...

Oh wait...

That and not placing hydro as a renewable. Hydro absolutely kills both solar and wind, but they get no subsidies because it is not considered renewable. Shoot, it's impossible to even get a permit for pumped storage. Use wind at night to pump water up to a large holding area, in the morning let the water run back down to where it came from through the generators which are the pumps, just running in reverse.

Democrats say no way because it uses water, fuarking morons.
https://www.dominionenergy.com/about...torage-station
post 1512915201 07-21-2017, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted By Ratfish⏩
our species has repeatedly shown that it's too stupid for nuclear srs

nuke plants as they exist now aren't very feasible economically in reality

if we moved to thorium reactors or something it'd be a different story
Feasible economically in reality? Too stupid? Wow. Keep listening to green peace.

Im out.
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post 1512915221 07-21-2017, 10:56 AM
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Amazing how angry people get over Musk.

Also amazing how many people ignore Space X and it's success rate now that it's up and going consistently. Brb, ignoring that and focusing on something that isn't successful yet (the solar company). You guys are jealous *******s for sure.
post 1512915351 07-21-2017, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted By MBisonSon⏩
No you're just being a close minded retard who's basically saying that because the future's not here right now, it'll never be.

Sit there and read that a few times and try and wrap your head around how dumb you actually sound.

You're saying electric cars won't make it because they're inefficient vs. other current technology while completely ignoring that the first commercially viable one was made, what? 10 years ago?

That's like expecting a wheel made of stone to outperform the Goodyear's on your car, and also failing to acknowledge your Goodyear's were made possible by that stone wheel.

You can try and throw your degrees and job title around as much as you want to appear smart but you're biffing on logic and looking like one of those 'smart dumb guys' who can memorize books but can't think critically.


I'm saying no matter how efficient EVs are, you still need to power them using technology which causes pollution on the same scale as a gas vehicle. Go look it up.

Fine, I did come off as an asshat and I apologize for that. I don't believe a degree makes you more or less intelligent in general, in fact some of the biggest idiots I've met have degrees. However I have knowledge and experience that you lack in this field. I'm trying to open your eyes to what the future can really be as opposed to dreams about flying EVs and Tesla's solar farms.

The key to the future is a much smarter electric grid and distributed power generation. EVs play a VERY small role in that. To be honest the most useful idea I've heard about EVs is that, if and when a HUGE number of EVs are plugged in overnight, they can form a distributed power storage system which may have an ACTUAL effect on power efficiency of the grid. We are VERY VERY far from such systems though, and I can get into why we are so far from it if you want.

Just saying man, I was being a dik for sure, but you also have to open your mind to what I'm saying. it's not BS.
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post 1512915501 07-21-2017, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted By thehypocrit⏩
this guy is the biggest scam artist lol

i still don't understand why people think this guy is some kind of revolutionary when all he does is go after the tax dollars
then who is developing new tech aside from **** like smart phones and gaming devices? at least he's trying to innovate. America was built on innovation. Why people are so dead set against this just shows that there will ALWAYS be a group of any population against any positive change whatsoever.
A million miles away - I don't.. feel.... anything.
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Originally Posted By swimmer32⏩
He's either a con man or a genius. I'm not sure which........but I'm leaning towards genius.
He divorced his wife and she took half his fortune. Then he married her again. She divorced him and got more money from him.

Not a genius.
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post 1512915611 07-21-2017, 10:59 AM
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I'm not saying EV's are the endpoint, I'm saying they're a step in the right direction.

Just the same way other things that Musk's doing are steps in the right direction.

He may not be the guy to accomplish all the things he's setting out to do, but if not the next guy can build on his work and so on, the same way he's building on the work of guys before him.
The billionaire and the beggar both have 24 hours in a day.

That's why grandma's apple pie rocks and yours sucks.
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn
At least it will thunderstorm tonight, and we know how they feel about water. :)
^^^Racist police officer who also cries about how racism doesn't exist, also cries reverse racism and typifies the stupidity of the racist right, referring to black people as "they" and regurgitating racist stereotypes.
post 1512915821 07-21-2017, 11:01 AM
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#86
  1. PisseninMisc
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  1. PisseninMisc
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Originally Posted By mynameisuntz⏩
Coming from the person who couldn't even understand my initial post and then went on a multiple-paragraph diatribe betraying his low reading comprehension?
Okay fine, I do apologize for my tone, I was being an ass. But what I wrote is factually true. The future is not related to space travel or EVs. I would argue that space travel era technology has led us to how we live today: corporations running the show, pollution on the rise, overpopulation fuked up, war raging as strong as ever, etc. "Advancement" and "technology" alone is meaningless. All we do is produce more bullchit without an end goal in mind.

Here's my prediction, let's check back in 20 years: Musk will never do much more than slightly improve existing technology which is what he has always done. Other technology, i.e. distributed generation will be implemented, but it will be done by companies you barely know in conjunction with utility companies. That's where gov't research money will actually pay off when it comes to saving energy and reducing pollution footprint.
*** Dawn Patrol Crew ***

Rustle me = get repped
post 1512915991 07-21-2017, 11:02 AM
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#87
  1. MiscInformed
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Originally Posted By Aesthetical⏩
Id like to hear your thoughts on all of the big corps relying on govt subsidies too.

Go on...
The government shouldn't be in the business of picking and choosing which private enterprises succeed or fail in the private sector and that's what subsidies do. I'm against them. For example, "Too big to fail" was a huge scam on the taxpayer. It made big banks bigger and richer at the expense of smaller banks. A lot of our tax dollars went overseas to support foreign banks. It's a huge scandal that the globalists covered up. Lots of people in the public sector should be in jail for what they did. It was theft from the treasury to enrich their cronies.
"Buy a man eat fish, the day, teach man, to lifetime." - Joe Biden

2022 New Year's Resolution: Randomly neg TheScapeGOAT for lulz.
post 1512916071 07-21-2017, 11:03 AM
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#88
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Originally Posted By twovalvekid⏩
Feasible economically in reality? Too stupid? Wow. Keep listening to green peace.

Im out.
your post
being aware of the cost of production compared to natgas currently

pick one

nobody wants to build nuke plants right now

solar makes the most sense overall and it's not even close. tech just has to improve a bit
Make Europe Germany Again
post 1512917101 07-21-2017, 11:12 AM
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#89
  1. mynameisuntz
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  1. mynameisuntz
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Originally Posted By PisseninMisc⏩
Okay fine, I do apologize for my tone, I was being an ass. But what I wrote is factually true. The future is not related to space travel or EVs. I would argue that space travel era technology has led us to how we live today: corporations running the show, pollution on the rise, overpopulation fuked up, war raging as strong as ever, etc. "Advancement" and "technology" alone is meaningless. All we do is produce more bullchit without an end goal in mind.

Here's my prediction, let's check back in 20 years: Musk will never do much more than slightly improve existing technology which is what he has always done. Other technology, i.e. distributed generation will be implemented, but it will be done by companies you barely know in conjunction with utility companies. That's where gov't research money will actually pay off when it comes to saving energy and reducing pollution footprint.
I don't have any sort of quarrel with this. If all Musk does is bring more attention to these sorts of issues and increase public support for renewables, while the larger breakthroughs occur through lesser known companies and utility companies, I'm fine with that. I have no allegiance to Musk or Tesla: I just want to see the work get done. If raising public awareness is the first step, then kudos to Musk for doing so. If the real work won't be done through Tesla, then kudos to whoever will accomplish it.

I'm more against the mindset of "the technology isn't there yet" or "look at all these government subsidies, therefore let's just abandon ship" rather than anything Tesla-focused.
All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.
post 1512917421 07-21-2017, 11:15 AM
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#90
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Originally Posted By mynameisuntz⏩
Coming from the person who couldn't even understand my initial post and then went on a multiple-paragraph diatribe betraying his low reading comprehension?
Sam Harris-THE RIDDLE OF THE GUN
6 scoops of xf up2.0 a day
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