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Forum » My experience with the Verticla Diet by Stan Efferding.
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Thread: My experience with the Verticla Diet by Stan Efferding.

post 1549504831 04-19-2018, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted By JUGGERNAUT1333⏩
There are countless articles proving that wrong, especially for those who resistance train. Red meat is drastically higher in nutrient values and its better for absorption. Yes it is more expensive, but because its a higher quality food.

EDIT: It is also covered in the seminar, and Stan has provided references for absolutely everything he mentions in the seminar in his outlines.
I'm not convinced on that one. Stan clearly has a conflict of interest in telling people that beef doesn't increase the prevalence of heart disease because he wants to sell his diet, while a quick research on google scholar clearly shows that there is a scientific consensus on the adverse effets of eating too much beef in the long run.

Just wanted to point that out. To me replacing the beef with chicken/fish + multivitamin is a much more sustainable option healthwise (which is the fundamental goal of working out - being in good health). I'm not saying you should not eat red meat I just think it shouldn't be the foundation of a diet.
post 1549504861 04-19-2018, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted By iloveus⏩
Eat meat and vegetables. Not that hard to do. No need to overcomplicate it.
this

bulking? add more meat and rice

cutting? cut back on rice

pretty simple diet
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post 1549504911 04-19-2018, 11:51 AM
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Ive been on the steak and rice bandwagon for the longest time. I swear to god my recomp was just because I switched from a vegatarian (still high in protein diet) to red meat, posted here

https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showt...4006391&page=1
post 1549504931 04-19-2018, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted By econbrah11⏩
Why not substitute beef for chicken and fish ? It's been proven that eating too much red meat is unhealthy in the long run. Steaks are more expensive too, unless you eat ground beef on a regular basis which is even more unhealthy.
"The notion that meat is unhelathy is founded on bad science. The Native Americans of the Great Plains hunted and ate Buffalo while living past 100 years. "-Dr. Mark Hyman
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post 1549505171 04-19-2018, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted By PaddleBunt⏩
I don't get the juice thing at all, without the fibrous matrix of solid fruit it's just pure chit.



Can't even drink a half glass of straight OJ without serious acid reflux
The juice is actually recommend for people that are bulking and having a hard time getting all the food down. He recommends actual oranges for most people

The small amount of fructose is really the most important part to this. He explains that in the vid

There is actually a large section in the book to help people with digestive issues like you too. He specifically covers acid reflux and how to treat and prevent it.
Training log: http://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=165829701
post 1549505311 04-19-2018, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted By Bassackwards⏩
this

bulking? add more meat and rice

cutting? cut back on rice

pretty simple diet
No one said its complicated but it involves more than just eat meat and rice. Every small nuance in the diet has a purpose. Comments like this are so stupid and ignorant. Why not actually research the diet properly before posting things like this
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post 1549505521 04-19-2018, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted By lawsfallmute⏩
Inflammation in the tissues or infection require the usage of cholesterol for repair. So, if you're constantly inflamed, then over the years it can lead to high cholesterol. Doesn't matter if you're a vegan or on a keto diet, or anywhere in between (although certain foods can of course trigger an inflammatory response in the body..).
I don't think inflammation leads to high cholesterol, it just leads to situations where having high cholesterol can be dangerous and lead to heart issues.

I'm aping Dr. Fung here, hopefully not getting it wrong, but think of cholesterol as spackle. If you damage your arteries/veins, cholesterol is used to cover it up. Inflammation is damage and over time chronic damage/inflammation leads to blockage.

... so it's not so much the cholesterol that's the issue, it's the inflammation & damage that's requiring it to be used to treat it.

IMO, I don't think dietary cholesterol is nearly as important as genetics when it comes to higher cholesterol. I also don't think having high cholesterol is nearly as problematic as it's made out to be. Triglycerides and the ratio of your cholesterol are way more important. Even with higher cholesterol, if the ratio is decent (which if you're working out and eating well it likely is) and if your triglycerides aren't bad, you're probably fine -- likely way better than someone put on statins in many cases.
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post 1549505541 04-19-2018, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted By econbrah11⏩
I'm not convinced on that one. Stan clearly has a conflict of interest in telling people that beef doesn't increase the prevalence of heart disease because he wants to sell his diet, while a quick research on google scholar clearly shows that there is a scientific consensus on the adverse effets of eating too much beef in the long run.

Just wanted to point that out. To me replacing the beef with chicken/fish + multivitamin is a much more sustainable option healthwise (which is the fundamental goal of working out - being in good health). I'm not saying you should not eat red meat I just think it shouldn't be the foundation of a diet.
chicken is loaded with phalates and fish arsenic and microplastics. multivitamins have nothing but research against their efficacy

if health is the primary concern then i hate to be that ******* but something like plant based (not vegan) is probably the gold standard
post 1549506001 04-19-2018, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted By JUSA⏩
Heart smart diet? Gtfo, they're all low fat, high carb, aren't they? Gee, I wonder what actual studies show about heart health and low fat, high carb diets?
Go to Amazon there are tons of books there. Lower fat, not high carb, just under 1500 mg in salt. The goal is no extra fluid build up because it defeats what the diuretics and bp lowering meds do. You are not trying to cancel out your low pressure with extra salt/ fluid.
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post 1549506081 04-19-2018, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted By midcoastking33⏩
chicken is loaded with phalates and fish arsenic and microplastics. multivitamins have nothing but research against their efficacy

if health is the primary concern then i hate to be that ******* but something like plant based (not vegan) is probably the gold standard
It's been proven that the best diet is the mediterranean one. Lots of fish, vegetables and olive oil and little red meat. But I get it that you have to eat meat to gain muscle and I completly agree with that. My point is that eating red meat every day is not the best option.
post 1549506981 04-19-2018, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted By econbrah11⏩
It's been proven that the best diet is the mediterranean one. Lots of fish, vegetables and olive oil and little red meat. But I get it that you have to eat meat to gain muscle and I completly agree with that. My point is that eating red meat every day is not the best option.
It's been shown that the mediterranean diet, when energy balance is controlled, is beneficial for certain aspects of health. I'd be careful about making statements like 'poved to be the best' when thats not really true.
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post 1549507121 04-19-2018, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted By econbrah11⏩
It's been proven that the best diet is the mediterranean one. Lots of fish, vegetables and olive oil and little red meat. But I get it that you have to eat meat to gain muscle and I completly agree with that. My point is that eating red meat every day is not the best option.
A diet by definition is temporary, 4,8,12 weeks and then back to regular eating habits. It is a short term "fix" for a desired change; you are talking about lifestyle approaches to eating for the long term/life.
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post 1549507321 04-19-2018, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted By PaddleBunt⏩
when energy balance is controlled
u wot m8?! On that hippie time I see
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post 1549507711 04-19-2018, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted By x-trainer
Go to Amazon there are tons of books there. Lower fat, not high carb, just under 1500 mg in salt. The goal is no extra fluid build up because it defeats what the diuretics and bp lowering meds do. You are not trying to cancel out your low pressure with extra salt/ fluid.
... and not a study was seen that day.
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post 1549507961 04-19-2018, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted By JUSA⏩
... and not a study was seen that day.
They are not at my fingertips because "you rang", it is med school cardiology. Look it up on that there *google* thingy.

key words: cardiology, blood pressure,sodium.
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post 1549508641 04-19-2018, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted By x-trainer
Go to Amazon there are tons of books there. Lower fat, not high carb, just under 1500 mg in salt. The goal is no extra fluid build up because it defeats what the diuretics and bp lowering meds do. You are not trying to cancel out your low pressure with extra salt/ fluid.
You're talking about unhealthy people with BP issues thought unless I'm misunderstanding you

That's really a separate discussion. Almost always, those people have a host of other issues causing their high BP. Dramatically lowering sodium is a short term solution until the overlying issues can be addressed
Training log: http://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=165829701
post 1549510691 04-19-2018, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted By iloveus⏩
u wot m8?! On that hippie time I see
As in caloric energy. Energy balance as in matching an appropriate caloric intake to expenditure ratio.
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post 1549511451 04-19-2018, 01:02 PM
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all i eat is

red meat
eggs
fish
veggies
occasionally soft pretzels and sour patch kids
post 1549512851 04-19-2018, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted By JUSA⏩
I don't think inflammation leads to high cholesterol, it just leads to situations where having high cholesterol can be dangerous and lead to heart issues.

I'm aping Dr. Fung here, hopefully not getting it wrong, but think of cholesterol as spackle. If you damage your arteries/veins, cholesterol is used to cover it up. Inflammation is damage and over time chronic damage/inflammation leads to blockage.

... so it's not so much the cholesterol that's the issue, it's the inflammation & damage that's requiring it to be used to treat it.

IMO, I don't think dietary cholesterol is nearly as important as genetics when it comes to higher cholesterol. I also don't think having high cholesterol is nearly as problematic as it's made out to be.Triglycerides and the ratio of your cholesterol are way more important. Even with higher cholesterol, if the ratio is decent (which if you're working out and eating well it likely is) and if your triglycerides aren't bad, you're probably fine -- likely way better than someone put on statins in many cases.
This. The ratio of your HDL to triglycerides is a much better indicator of risk of heart disease. A 1:2 ratio of HDL to triglycerides is ideal if I remember correctly.

The whole cholesterol thing is a lot more complex than ohh hurr derr my cholesterol is over 200 ima die. As I said in another post, both LDL and HDL are "good" cholesterol in their own ways. LDL carries cholesterol to the various cells in your body while HDL carries the used up ones back to the liver. Even LDL, which is classified as the "bad" cholesterol is more complicated than it is told. Most people are told that if you have high LDL, then you're at greater risk for heart disease, whichcanbe true. What you're not told is that there are multiple types of LDL cholesterol. Type 1 which is basically big, "airy" LDL which is less likely to cause an issue with clogged arteries, and type 2 which are smaller and more dense which is more likely to cause issues. Your Triglyceride to cholesterol ratio will give you an indicator of which type of LDL you have more of.

Edit: If anything, the ratio of omega 3 to omega 6's are more pressing of a concern. The high use of various vegetable oils and sugar is whats really going to fuk you up long term. Limit those, eat whole foods that are nutrient dense as Stan recommends through this "diet" method, and you'll be fine.
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post 1549513371 04-19-2018, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted By devin45k⏩
Why do people worry about salt so much? Can't you just offset the negative effects by drinking more water? (srs question)

I basically rely on lean red meat over chicken now. It's a lot easier to go low carb and still get my calories in.
It keeps you hydrated, keeps muscles full and great preworkout when joined with V8 juice, pedialyte, drip drop or those nunns drops. People are worried about over sodiuming their body but usually do not intake enough. Also when you lift it helps push nutrients into the muscle, keeps you hydrated and helps with cramps. I do pink sea salt and v8 juice preworkout and throughout the day usually post workout I'll have a pack of ramen noodles. My joints also feel way better on a higher sodium diet, so obviously it isn't all placebo. If you look at some preworkouts they include sodium as it aides in that pump effect.
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post 1549517381 04-19-2018, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted By arn710⏩
You're talking about unhealthy people with BP issues thought unless I'm misunderstanding you

That's really a separate discussion. Almost always, those people have a host of other issues causing their high BP. Dramatically lowering sodium is a short term solution until the overlying issues can be addressed
Right.

I'm not going to argue diet or going against orders with some 300lb fatty needing a quadruple bypass. I don't know and at that point you're walking the Razor's edge, probably dead either way.

Now, to normal people, what I will argue is this failed notion that it's "heart healthy" to adopt this failed "low fat" diet fad that has been proven up and down a failure, which has been shown to have been fallaciously pressed by the sugar industry and something that has, as it was widely adopted, let to nothing but more heart health issues, direct correlation.

X-gen is suggesting "all the studies" say this or that. ****ing noise. Here, type in "study fat heart attack diet" google. Guess what? You'll get 100 links all saying fat either does or does not cause heart attacks, all backed by studies and all (at face value) saying different things.

So, anyone who rests their Nutritional Laurels on this "Studies say so!" argument, right then and there - be very careful with anything they're saying. If you want to go the "scientific" study route, you can find any to support anything.

What I do know is, the first major study they did that started this anti-fat craze was bull**** (they looked at 50+ countries, ignored all but 16 which showed what they wanted and got a Nobel prize for their deception), that the sugar industry paid off scientists (I made a thread about this today, even) to make fat a boogeyman and that as we adopted the goddamn food pyramid, the only result has been a skyrocketing of heart problems, obesity and the like.

Here's my other thread on this:https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showt...hp?t=175661541

... so, in short, to xgen and his kind: take your scientific studies and shove them up your ass -- or at the very least, show me the *specific* one(s) you're talking about so I can verify or look at them.
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post 1549559961 04-20-2018, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted By JUSA⏩
Right.

I'm not going to argue diet or going against orders with some 300lb fatty needing a quadruple bypass. I don't know and at that point you're walking the Razor's edge, probably dead either way.

Now, to normal people, what I will argue is this failed notion that it's "heart healthy" to adopt this failed "low fat" diet fad that has been proven up and down a failure, which has been shown to have been fallaciously pressed by the sugar industry and something that has, as it was widely adopted, let to nothing but more heart health issues, direct correlation.

X-gen is suggesting "all the studies" say this or that. ****ing noise. Here, type in "study fat heart attack diet" google. Guess what? You'll get 100 links all saying fat either does or does not cause heart attacks, all backed by studies and all (at face value) saying different things.

So, anyone who rests their Nutritional Laurels on this "Studies say so!" argument, right then and there - be very careful with anything they're saying. If you want to go the "scientific" study route, you can find any to support anything.

What I do know is, the first major study they did that started this anti-fat craze was bull**** (they looked at 50+ countries, ignored all but 16 which showed what they wanted and got a Nobel prize for their deception), that the sugar industry paid off scientists (I made a thread about this today, even) to make fat a boogeyman and that as we adopted the goddamn food pyramid, the only result has been a skyrocketing of heart problems, obesity and the like.

Here's my other thread on this:https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showt...hp?t=175661541

... so, in short, to xgen and his kind: take your scientific studies and shove them up your ass -- or at the very least, show me the *specific* one(s) you're talking about so I can verify or look at them.
It appears that you haven't got much experience in actually putting together research papers. This is the primary difference between the layman and actually being able to interpret scientific data.

Firstly, studies provide evidence. It's not a right/wrong dichotomy, it's just 'This is what we did, this is what we observed'. So lets get that out of the way, just because a study suggests a certain outcome is not definitive proof of anything.

With this in mind, how do we sort evidence? Well we look for quality. You can rank the quality of evidence based on multiple factors for example; Sample size, research method used, control of extraneous factors, validity of the initial argument, potential funding influences etc. There are dozens of ways to rank evidence. Why is this important? Well because the quality of the research dictates the likelyhood of the data collected being accurate.

This is why, if you ever go to a meta-analysis (a research paper that collects multiple papers on one area and compares the result to generate a conclusion) you will see that they routinely exclude studies in the area based on certain metrics they deem decrease the quality of evidence.

So, yes. You can find a study to support a view. But, you then open yourself up to being ridiculed by the scientific community when you post your resource and they point out all the reasons that the study is dog chit.
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post 1549570641 04-20-2018, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted By JUGGERNAUT1333⏩
this video is full of good info. everyone should watch this imo
post 1549571421 04-20-2018, 07:33 AM
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OP, you wanna be a generous fellow and send the document my way? hehehe
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post 1549571531 04-20-2018, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted By arn710⏩
Eating a moderate protein, high card, moderate fat diet has been debunked? That's news to me I'd like to see that study
U wot now m8? I think you misquoted me and wanted to reply to someone else
post 1549572121 04-20-2018, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted By Schnitzl⏩
U wot now m8? I think you misquoted me and wanted to reply to someone else
Nope. Your post was vague at best. If you have specific criticisms, post them
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post 1549574171 04-20-2018, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted By arn710⏩
Nope. Your post was vague at best. If you have specific criticisms, post them
Hey Arn, what's a day of eating like for you?
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post 1549574491 04-20-2018, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted By arn710⏩
Nope. Your post was vague at best. If you have specific criticisms, post them
And you missed what I said completely. I'll make it simple for you to grasp then, instead of looking at diets as black and white, we should be looking at physiological factors influencing individual response to different foods and narrowing it down from there. Not sure why you are picking an argument since I didn't criticize the current topic.
post 1549575151 04-20-2018, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted By JUGGERNAUT1333⏩
All of the additions are recommended for a reason. The OJ, Cranberry, carrots all have purpose. They aren't fillers. It's not complicated at all, but to understand it you need to read/watch about it.

I use Iodized Salt, which is the recommendation from Stan. Getting the Iodine is key.
This is true.

I use 90% pink yuppy salt and my blood work always comes back with iodine deficiency.
post 1549579111 04-20-2018, 09:15 AM
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#120
  1. x-trainer ben
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  1. x-trainer ben
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Iceman, who asked the question, has been a member of the ov35 sub forum for some time so I know a bit about him and his injuries. Since he asked i answered with him in mind. That is where the confusion comes from, reread the thread.
Originally Posted By JUSA⏩
Right.

I'm not going to argue diet or going against orders with some 300lb fatty needing a quadruple bypass. I don't know and at that point you're walking the Razor's edge, probably dead either way.

Now, to normal people, what I will argue is this failed notion that it's "heart healthy" to adopt this failed "low fat" diet fad that has been proven up and down a failure, which has been shown to have been fallaciously pressed by the sugar industry and something that has, as it was widely adopted, let to nothing but more heart health issues, direct correlation.

X-gen is suggesting "all the studies" say this or that. ****ing noise. Here, type in "study fat heart attack diet" google. Guess what? You'll get 100 links all saying fat either does or does not cause heart attacks, all backed by studies and all (at face value) saying different things.

So, anyone who rests their Nutritional Laurels on this "Studies say so!" argument, right then and there - be very careful with anything they're saying. If you want to go the "scientific" study route, you can find any to support anything.

What I do know is, the first major study they did that started this anti-fat craze was bull**** (they looked at 50+ countries, ignored all but 16 which showed what they wanted and got a Nobel prize for their deception), that the sugar industry paid off scientists (I made a thread about this today, even) to make fat a boogeyman and that as we adopted the goddamn food pyramid, the only result has been a skyrocketing of heart problems, obesity and the like.

Here's my other thread on this:https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showt...hp?t=175661541

... so, in short, to xgen and his kind: take your scientific studies and shove them up your ass -- or at the very least, show me the *specific* one(s) you're talking about so I can verify or look at them.
There is an unspoken thing, we are iron brothers and sisters, we are to support each other and...It is our duty to support our brothers and sisters in the iron game!
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