Great song. The David Allen Coe (ya his music is racist af but I don't think he's serous) version is hilarous btw if you haven't heard it.

Everybody likes to talk if they relate to the person they are talking to. Problem with INTJ and introverts is they relate to very few. I would bet you like to talk to your close friends if it's just them and not other people......nobody likes to be completely alone.

For us we want to go out and talk but we just find it draining as hell, and are not interested in most people. We can talk to one person just fine but when it comes down to real socializing around groups and meeting new people we suck at it.

I socialized a lot today at work and i'm exhausted. None of it was good conversation imo but at least i tried. But it's the same old song and dance for me. I can never make a connection.

good social skills isn't about just holding a convo

you have to know how to relate the topic to the person you're talking to and have them feel engaged

ive seen very attractive bros of mine fail with biches becuz of their autistic conversational skills.

So what is that you thought wassupposedto happen? That people should form groups with a total disregard for whether or not they are needlessly miserable, feckless kents who drag the group down?

If you want to talk about "real" and "fake", solders in a warzone keeping each others' spirits up joking around and laughing aren't being "fake", they're helping each other stay on task and get home alive, which is avery realgoal. The whining POS who tries to be "real" with everyone,even if he's right, is making a bad situation worse for everyone for no reason other than to stroke his own ego by feeling smart and ends up being socially rejected because he's annoying AF, droning on about things that don't actually matter right now.

This isn't sad. It's the entire reason we are able to form bonds and cooperate effectively instead of wallowing in our own chit. People's emotional responses to social interactions are as real and vital to their ability to function as gas in a car, you can't just dismiss them as something you don't want to understand and expect everything to just keep working out for you without it.

it isnt just about social skills, its also about CONNECTION with the other person...

I agree. What you're saying makes perfect sense. It just is said that ultimately, you are expected to hide your pain and make everyone else feel better. You have to fake your own feelings to make other people like you.

Havent read thread since the beginning. But yea, i dont think men realize what providers they are.

Since women have the power in yes and no, men are their monkeys (regarding sex). "Provider" and "useful" go hand in hand imo. Even the bk's. Because the bk's are doing it because it gets them poosy. If it didnt get them poosy, they wouldnt do it. Theres not a time where the woman doesnt get what she wants (not orgasms. The scenario of sex), unless youre talking about forced sex

By the same token somebody who has something vs. Somebody who doesnt. Which is more attractive. Clearly somebody who has nothing brings nothing to the table and is therefore not doing anything to "attract" anything

I still think my mirror neurons point is good. That means people arent "mean" or anything its that due to existence of mirror neurons youre making them uncomfortable and theyre acting out of self interest or, rather, self preservation

Like i said, if you feel like chit youre gonna make others feel like chit

Social kills are developed when you're a kid, see my thread on thishttps://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showt...hp?t=175692811
Having the skill to converse without stuttering and looking people in the eye is really good.

You're missing a nuance here, though. Keeping something to yourself is not the same as faking.

People aren't expected to robotically serve the needs of others. If you were, thenpeople on the autism spectrum would function easily, since everyone would be more than happy to listen to long monologues about fictional worlds or irrelevant details. In reality, there's a give and take, and most communication isnotactually about expressing your inner voice.

It's OK to do that sometimes. There's a time and a place for that and the right people to do that with, but there's a real world outside your head in which there's a give-and-take going on to make real things happen. It isn't that you're expected to "fake your feelings" and "hide your pain", it's that everyone around you has their own private feelings and pain, too. Yours isn't more important or more real than theirs, and it can unintentionally come across as very selfish to assume that other people should take as much of an interest in your problems as you do. They have their own problems, too, and keep it to themselves.

Failing to consider the perspective of others is actually a very typical description of the social problems that come with the autism spectrum. It comes through in your complaints: you're actually annoyed that people don't want to hear about your pain and complaining that you don't think anything bad happens to happy people.

I grew up poor as hell in rural coal country in a single-parent home. I've carried a murdered friend's casket. I've had a court battle with a shady contractor running for a year now. The sun's been out for about four days in the last three months. Bad things happen to everybody, but I'm not "faking" feelings when I'm treating people kindly and pleasantly, I'm just treating people kindly and pleasantly because it'snot all about meand nobody else deserves to have me spew childish chit about the evils of the world at them, nor would I even want to. They already know, because they all have their own lives, too. It's a shared, unspoken piece of knowledge about adult life.

It's not all about you, either. The sooner you internalize how unreasonable it is for you to expect it to be and to imagine that it's "sad" that other people don't prioritize your needs above all else, the sooner you'll be able to accept new knowledge about your social skills.

Fair enough. But it still all boils down to being useful to other people.

Everybody is selfish. Even when people say "I don't want anything from you, I just want to be around you", they are deriving pleasure or happiness from your existence.

We hang out. We pay for our own beers. I don't make you laugh, I don't have any skills I can pass onto you. I don't let your air your grievances because they bore me, and I don't help you get a girl's number because I'm a terrible wingman. In fact when you do speak to people, I'm so socially awkward that they make an excuse and leave. On top of that, I just complain about work, about life in general and I don't listen to any feedback you have.

Hell, you have to take a bus back because I don't drive.

Now I erase your memory. Next time I buy you a round, even though I'm a tight bastard. I come equipped with stories and anecdotes and a sense of humour, even though I might dramatising everything and I was sobbing an hour prior and had been doing so for a few hours. In spite of being bored by the problems of others I let you vent. I miraculously help you get a girls number because I read some PUA book or something. I keep my mouth shut when you talk to someone else. I leave my work issues at home, I try to sound optimistic about life and I let you give feedback even though I don't want it.

I still can't drive but I arrange an Uber for you.

Now are you going to say I was better in scenario B because I was "useful"? Or just an overall better person?
Maybe you'd prefer me in scenario A, where it was the real me. Would you hang out with me again in A, because you don't care about what I bring to the table?

In which scenario do we have a better time? In which scenario do we part ways and feel like the time was well-spent and we'll have some short term happiness? Which scenario generated more rapport between us? Which scenario was more productive?

I think theres a bigger issue at play here.. And it has to deal with the macro

Think of like the community as a whole. Everybody is bishing and whining and complaining.. What would that do? You think the community would be successful? I think theres some type of productivity mechanism in that humans know that if that were the baseline wed be fuked. So, everybody keeps everybodys morale up or discusses things that would be productive as opposed to not as if its indoctrinated on a large scale its prob more conducive to laziness.

I fully see it as lying - you know when people ask "hey how are you" and you go "im good" when it could be a lie. But i think the lying serves a purpose

The community remains upbeat and productive and anything not conducive to that is "taboo"

In your description, usefulness to other people and being a better person seem to be the same thing. However, once the facade is dropped, person A is really who you truly are. That's why so many people have fake friends, but still feel very lonely and disconnected. Because they are really person A pretending to be person B, and eventually person A shines through. Probably why many relationships fail too. At first you seem like this happy guy. Then you eventually reveal yourself to be what you are, and they nope out. Or maybe the other way around.

It's cope. it's because life really sucks. Everyone IS lying. We are all on a rock hurling towards our deaths. We are fukd. Truly, srsly fukd. Every relationship is conditional. There is no unconditional love. Even your own children can grow up and murder you. It's like we are all forced to live one big fuking lie in order to make each other feel better. It's like when you smile and tell your kids Santa visited. There is no fuking Santa. We're all fukd. I'd honestly rather hear and deal with people's problems. I'd rather see the real them. I'd rather know and understand their pain and share in mine, and not be fake af. It's fuking depressing smiling. Whenever someone asks "How are you?" and you say "Fine!" rather than "I was just thinking about when I'm going to blow my brains out." Like I said, eventually the fake niceness of people wears off. It really all boils down to being useful to other people and being lucky enough to not have too many bad things happen to you to make you "weird and depressing." There used to be a balance of suffering and joy. People understood death...perhaps because they were exposed to it so much. We live now in a materialistic, hedonistic society where people project these fake personas constantly. Like the happy looking IG thot that hops from dick to dick for validation and goes home and cuts herself and takes drugs at night because she knows her life has no meaning...

True friendships and connections with people aren't forged over small talk. That may start it, but really, eventually, each party has to drop their guard and accept each other for what they really are. Eventually the niceties have to be dispensed, and the real chit has to come out.

I don't think negativity or pessimism necessarily lead to a lack of productivity. Actually, it's the opposite. When you're in the chit, you do everything you can to find solutions to get out.

Maybe person A is who I am and I'm working on trying to be person B, because that's far more conducive for all purposes? We can argue being true to oneself vs trying to mold themselves into a more likable person all night but the question is what is more conducive for all parties involved. Should I stay unlikable because that's the real me but remain miserable, or should I acknowledge I need to find a healthy balance and in doing so perhaps find a better me which can derive happiness from this world and give happiness unto others?Ask someone to call you everyday and say those exact words to you. I give you 5 days before you get sick of it and that's why when people know the world sucks they avoid repeating it ad nauseum.You lose a lot of friends and even your family resent having you around.

You say it boils down to being useful for other people. I say it boils down to being miserable vs not being miserable, plus garnering positive feelings in others vs bringing everyone down constantly.

But how can you change who you really are? IDK. Maybe it will lead to enough positive experiences that eventually you will change. You definitely can change based on experiences. I remember I used to be optimistic lmao....when I was like 3. Anyway, you are probably right. Some people can do it, and others can't. Eventually, the mask wears thin. That's probably why so many old people over the age of 70 are fuking miserable. At that point, you drop the facade. By then, you realize it is fuking over, and everything you ever did was just a means to spawn out some offspring. lol

I still, though, hold on to one single bleak truth: no one is safe, nothing is redeemed. Yet I am blameless. Each model of human behavior must be assumed to have some validity. Is evil something you are? Or is it something you do? My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact, I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape. But even after admitting this—and I have countless times, in just about every act I’ve committed—and coming face-to-face with these truths, there is no catharsis. I gain no deeper knowledge about myself, no new understanding can be extracted from my telling. There has been no reason for me to tell you any of this. This confession has meant nothing….”

I think this is sort of right, although it's worthwhile to distinguish one frame of reference from another.

When you're chatting with strangers/acquaintances on the street, in the bar, in your office lunchroom, etc., you don't burden them with your bitching about your chitty life circumstances or how miserable you're feeling on that day. Some mild commiserating about the weather or about what's going on at your mutual place of employment, etc., is fine. In that sense, yes, it's "taboo" to tell a stranger in line behind you at Chipotle that your life sucks and you're a loser.

Once you've developed a meaningful relationship with someone, those things aren't "taboo" anymore,althoughpeople are still going to avoid you if you bring nothing to the table but negativity on a regular basis (which I suspect is OP's principal problem, but he never responded to my earlier effortpost ITT). I used to have a similar problem - I was sarcastic and complained about stuff a lot, and that wasn't sufficiently offset by me being smart or funny. Of course, I can rely on my fiancee or good friends to listen to me complain about a job situation or family health issues or whatever, but it's also important that I'm not just a drain that uses them to vent or hear my random thoughts without ever also making them feel good and building them up.

The macro you're talking about is probably partially an evolutionary thing that keeps our productivity chugging along, but the more fundamental and useful take-away for OP is that everybody wants to be happy as much of the time as possible. Girls weren't just approaching Zyzz in some of his vids because he was shredded. It also had a lot to do with the fact that he was out at some festival or wherever with a group of his buddies dancing around and appearing to have a really good time. That attracts people who also want to have a good time. OP wants to be around people who will make him feel happy, and the people OP wants to be around also want the same thing. Some attractive girl is not going to want to go on a bunch of dates with a guy who isn't making her feel like she's happy being there, and no attractive girl (or at least 99%) is going to feel happy listening to some guy opine at length about science, video games, anime, obscure chit, etc.

Everyone has pain and chitty things in their lives, even "Chad" and "Stacy." If OP's life is such a miserable disaster that he can't function, he needs serious therapy. If, on the other hand, he just projects negativity, then stop. Obviously, you can't heal serious mental pain by pretending to be happy, but on a day to day basis where you're just not feeling super upbeat, acting happy can have major positive effects. There are days I feel like total chit, but I notice that if I rock out and sing along to a good song in my car, I start feeling great. Project positivity (not necessarily that things are great, but at least they can and likely will be) and show genuine interest in other people's thoughts and feelings, and things will turn out fine.

Feel like there might be some entitlement issues here

A) i actually kinda agree about the genuineness its one of the first things i look for
B) i dont think life sucks. Life is actually pretty fuken awesome

Youve definitely got a perception of the way the world works vs. What actually happens which is a personal issue

But shiatt.. Lets break the world down to molecules or atoms or whatever. Opposites attract. Both substances carry a charge but get their fill through the opposite. Same chit everywhere

Thread isn't about me, and that's why I didn't reply to your insinuations about me bruh.

Point I made was that "social skills" seems to be equivalent to "being useful to people in the given situation", and for someone who isn't attractive, "working on their social skills" amounts to asking them to be more attractive in romantic situations. If someone is straight up ugly and undesirable, that's not going to do anything. There is sexual selection, and a significant portion of people will fail to reproduce. Their lack of "social skills" was really their lack of being genetically gifted to being useful in romantic situations.

The problem is you're focusing on the things in life that don't really matter. When I was a kid I had hopes and dreams. We all did. But over time, the daily grind gets in the way and you miss the things that really matter, even though they are right in front of you staring you in the face. I think the next time you should ask yourself, "Am I on the right track here?". I don't mean to be rude, but people like you I really pity. So maybe you could use the few brain cells you have and take advantage of the knowledge I have given you now. Good luck.

Just do me a favor and remember these words when you are 90, and ask yourself if you feel the same way. Every track ends the same way.

I do think that things are conditional. Way more than people think

But im gonna provide an example where i wasnt useful but someone helped.

It actually happened multiple times. Back when i was low on money my car battery kept giving out. One time i broke down at a turn for a light and like 5 people stopped to ask to help me

This happened another time at a turn. A guy got out, and pushed the car with me

You can maybe say that they did it to make themselves feel good, but i wasnt being useful at all for them

Lol. Ok. The thread is about you to the extent you're asking everyone else to explain a concept to you that you're unable to apply properly in your life.

Not sure why you keep reverting back to attractiveness except that you seem obsessed with the concept and use it as at least a partial explanation for everything. Again, you didn't respond to anything mentioned previously about the chit ton of obese and/or ugly and/or super poorly dressed guys who seem to do pretty well even without being wealthy. It's clear that being attractive =/= having social skills, and you use your allegedly below average appearance to excuse unrelated deficiencies and shift the blame to others. *victim mentality crew*Not sure if unaware....

He's gonna come in with a reply that you WERE useful to them because you made them feel good and that no one would have stopped for him because he's ugly, which may or may not be true.

understanding social ques, having common sense, and know how to talk about stupid sh*t candidly

I think people do this to make themselves feel better and reinforce their bond with the collective. If everyone feels inclined to help each other, it promotes feelings of security and integration with the team. We formed this team of society in the first place because it tends to, at least on average (though probably not in my case), work in favor of all of us, making us all more likely to survive and reproduce.

I did explain it. I said those obese people provide usefulness to their friends and the people around them in other ways. However, you will see that many horribly obese people fail miserably romantically because they are not considered useful for mating. They may have "great social skills" with friends and "terrible social skills" romantically (aka they are romantically useless because they are considered ugly and deemed genetically inferior). That's why I think "social skills" is just a euphemism for being useful to people in whatever arena we are talking about. It's also why Chad can be a felon who beats the chit out of kids and marry a billionaire, get a modeling contract, and be considered the life of the party. He had "good social skills".

This assumption makes my point about you coming across like a self-absorbed kent nicely. That you assume Person A is a person's true nature speaks volumes about your own character.«Previous Thread|Next Thread»BookmarksBookmarks[ul]

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