People would stop for me. People just don't want to reproduce with me. People are happy to talk to me and take my help, too. Because I'm useful in those other arenas, but useless to them romantically. That's how life actually works. People are alwys just using each other. Every interaction is really a kind of transaction. It's sad.

I didn't mean he was person A literally. It was more like as an example. I didn't mean to insult him at all. I like Tobias he's a good poster, and has offered me good advice before. Please don't misinterpret my words. I'm not rationalizing away social norms. I follow them. I fake smiles. I say please and thank you. I play the fuking game. I'm just tired of it is all.

Again, this thread is not about me aside from my search for a definition. People often say to improve social skills, but they don't really know what they mean by that. When scrutinized, I suspect it ultimately boils down to "have more desirable genetics". I realize you're mad, and fukking lol, but whatever man. This thread was just to illustrate my point that when people tell others to "work on social skills" they have no idea what they are really asking the person to do...

Also, regarding "what a person truly is", that is a separate matter of philosophical debate. Are we the same people we were 5 years ago? Are we defined by our genetics and our experiences up to the current time? That's a totally differnet debate that also brings religious views in, so I'd rather avoid that. I do think that pretending to be someone you aren't for long enough will eventually fail though. It's hard to maintain a lie.

Maybe your standards are unreasonably high then. There are some disgusting pig men with no teeth living in poverty who have managed to have 5+ kids. You're either a complete mutant that isn't recognizable as a human male (unlikely) or you're not going after women you can reasonably expect to see results with. I was semi-aesthetic early on in college but hadn't developed good social skills yet, and I was often amazed at the DYEL twinks and obese neckbeards in my dorm who had girlfriends spending the night in their rooms regularly. The most autistic, fedora-wearing nerd weirdo I encountered lived in my dorm and regularly had super loud sex with girls in his room such that the RAs had to knock and ask them to please stop screaming and rattling the bed. If that guy can do it, anyone can.

That's simply not true. There are breeders and there are those who do not reproduce. There is differential sexual selection at work. Not every person gets to reproduce. Some people are truly undesirable. You might not understand why that guy was considered attractive, and it is because attraction may be rooted in various genetic factors that are not obvious to people yet, but they are definitely present. The flip example is the Chadcel phenomenon, where there are a few rare people who seem amazing on paper and look physically attractive but have no success with women. They are not useful romantically because something aside from their physical appearance makes them unattractive (perhaps their mental state, or some other thing). My point is that a lot of these things are rooted in genetics, so when you tell someone to "improve their social skills", it can (but not always I guess) boil down to "improve your genetics" which is a pretty ridiculous thing to ask someone. It's like asking someone to be smarter.

To be fair.. I think "shouldnt reproduce" is like legitimately retarded and deformed. Not someone of your intelligence

Now, you could be truly hideous but if youre that smart you can still figure it out

Also, misc is fairly toxic. A lot of "oneupsmanship" and blatant lying due to the competitive environment. Even the dudes that are successful. Prob taking the competitive environment by trying to make themselves feel better about gloating even more

If you even had a really good looking guy or something theyd prob try to take him down a notch

This seems pretty accurate

People have raised the concern with you more than once in this thread that you come across as entitled, unreasonable, and self-centered. I think it's pretty obvious what people are trying to tell you when they warn you about your social skills: your reluctance to think about the needs and perspectives of others in your interactions and your tendency to dismiss it as fake and meaningless. That's what social skills are, "understanding" what's going on between people, as opposed to merely "talking". If people are actually telling you that you have good conversational skills and bad social skills, it's definitely because they're picking up on your lack of awareness about what is appropriate and what is happening.

Instead, you wan to blame your struggles on "genetics" so that it isn't within your control and you don't need to change. Even any attempt to talk to you about whether or not youshouldwork on it is dismissed as being about "religious views", so you'd "rather avoid that".

OK. If you'd rather avoid learning to form meaningful relationships, that's on you, but don't BS us. You're struggling because you're not willing to accept that you're sending social signals that warn people away from youin a very real way. You said it yourself:It is not from looking at you, touching you, or smelling you. They see you and think "I'll bet this guy fuks". It's from the way you present yourself once they start trying to engage with you. Everything is fine until you cross some boundary that raises a flag. I don't know what that is, because I'm not there to coach you, but this isabsolutelysomething you can learn and address.

Didn't read LOL.

OP last weekend I met two dudes who both seemed to have pretty good social skills but were still ultimately autists. They could talk at length about stuff and crack jokes but they weren't really engaging people. Ultimately they sorta ended up just jerking each other off while everyone else zoned out. You have to be playful, positive, engaging, fun etc. Just being smart and a conversationalist isn't always enough to get people to really like you.

[QUOTE=wincel post_id=1550070941]I can out converse just about anyone on this planet. I'd like to know what bad "social skills" are because I always see this meme plastered everywhere. People always say "oh yeah you should work on your social skills" to other people on here. As if somehow their personalities are defective and they are unable to discuss topics, and that's why they aren't good with women. I find that a bit ridiculous. In fact, a lot of people with supposedly "bad" social skills are just ugly and people act bored and uninterested around them because they do not find those people attractive. I've also noticed a lot of classically attractive people behave extremely erratically and do and say awful things and are given a free pass. Do they have "good social skills?"

What about this kunt? Does she have "good social skills"?

[youtube]oSK0JFVTUc0[/youtube

A lot of people will reference "game" and say you have to have "game." However, I can show you tons of examples of "game" that is pretty pathetic and unsophisticated which sloots still responded positively to when the guy was attractive to them so I think that's pretty much a load of horsechit. I think "social skills" is pretty much a euphemism for being attractive, barring extreme cases of autism where some dude can't pick up on social cues or is literally too shy to talk.

Can you *******s show me an example of someone with "good" social skills? Also, show me someone with "good social skills" who isn't considered hot.

Also a lot of "social skills" seems to be feigning happiness and enthusiasm in everything. The people best at this are seasoned narcissists and psychopaths who are extremely good at manipulating others. It reminds me of the faux enthusiasm you see in media people during interviews. Are these examples of "good social skills" or is this just being an emotionally manipulative, fake twat?[/QUOTE]You're discussing a lot of different issues here under the umbrella of "social skills".

Most of the time it's a term people use that refers to a host of issues based on context. It means someone has a shortcoming in socially communicating with others, but doesn't really indicate the nature of the shortcoming.

There are definitely cases where people who are either ignorant or delusional equate being ugly with being socially inept. That stems from either them not understanding or not wanting to admit that someone's physical looks definitely has an impact on how their social value is determined. Someone who looks great will always have more leeway than the ugly person. The scale of this leeway depends on many factors.

There are definitely some people who try to completely fake the conversation for their own gain. Some of these people may have narcissistic tendencies. This also relates to what you wrote about having "game" in that some people will basically try to say whatever they need to in order to get some pussy.

However, being enthusiastic in conversation or having "game" doesn't have to be fake or come from a place of narcissism. Just because your depressed and your life sucks doesn't mean you cant have a conversation with someone where you are genuinely interested and enthusiastic about learning about the person and sharing in the joy they feel in life. In fact, it's pretty narcissistic to believe the conversation has to revolve around how you personally feel and that feeling enthused by conversing with another person is not in the realm of possibility if you happen to be feeling like chit in your personal life.

I'll give you an example that illustrates my point:

The other day I was on the train, and there were these two reasonably attractive sloots sitting near me talking with their phones out. Anyway, this MASSIVE, like we are talking 400+ lb dude with weird casts on both his legs, and fat rolls sticking out from under his shirt (I'm not exaggerating.) walks up, huffin and puffin, and flops down on a seat across from the girls. The guy smiles over and says "phew hot day out." Sloots just ignore him. He has some headphones, and as he is putting them on, he drops them. He's like "Oh man! I hope these aren't damaged. These cost me $300!" Literally nobody on the train reacts except me, and I give him a smile and a nod. The sloots are literally just pretending he doesn't exist. He's sitting there 3 feet from them, and they also have these expressions of utter disgust on their faces. Why? Because he has no use to them whatsoever. Obviously, they would never want to fuk him. They also don't want to be his friend because they would never want a friend who looks like that. They won't even humor him. They are so disgusted by his presence that he can't even provide 10 mins of entertaining conversation during the train ride. There he was being very social and pleasant, and jovial. Seemed like a nice guy. But he was just too damn ugly and unattractive. He was projecting a fake aura of niceness. I know when he goes home everyday, he probably thinks about killing himself. I used to be fat (not nearly that fat though), and I know how it feels. Those women wouldn't even entertain small talk with this poor, lonely, fat guy, and he was putting effort in. When I see things like this, it makes me realize how it all boils down to people using each other. I bet that guy tries real hard everyday to put out that fake persona of niceness. It's not going to get him anywhere in life.

That's why I think it's bullchit. To me, that guy has great social skills in the sense of ability to converse etc, it's just he's not genetically good enough to be useful in most settings. So, he will be an outcast regardless of how hard he tries to be nice to people.

1) Obesity is not typically genetics, and many people do view it - rightly or wrongly - as a major indicator of a person's character.

2) Two friends having a personal conversation don't want to be interrupted by a stranger trying to convince them he has money. By default, people ignore train weirdos. Do you not see how socially awkward this guy obviously is? If this story isn't trolling, it reveals what people are trying to tell you when they say you have poor social skills. Obesity aside, even an attractive guy would struggle with that kind of annoying, needy introduction.

In that guy's case, it had to be genetics bro. Who the fuk can eat to 400+ lb without it having some genetic component to it as well? Srsly...I could eat everything I wanted like a total pig, and I'd get back to where I was at before which was around 300.

The two friends weren't having a conversation. They were sitting there with their phones out and then they stopped. One of them was just sitting there. One of them even gave the other a sort of half "eww" look. Way to make excuses for the pretty girls, and way to call the guy socially awkward. He was NOT a train weirdo. He was trying to be friendly. I love how you are spinning this to vindicate them. I didn't see it as needy at all. LOL You're right, we should all just sit there in silence on the train awkwardly. That's a lot more social and demonstrating good social skills than to make small talk.

I have seen train weirdos. One example was a guy who stared at me for like 5 mins (I didn't say a word and just started back arms crossed), and then said that I had worms in my head. THAT is a train weirdo. This guy was just an ugly fat guy trying to make some idle banter.

You'd have to be there. It's seriously funny how you spin this to side with the pretty people in this situation though. Fukking lol.

This thread.. these videos..

So you give an example of a 300lbs disgusting ******* and two airheaded sloots on a train to illustrate what exactly? Looks DEFINITELY have an impact on social value. So does context and environment.

But the fact remains that many people lack social skills. Yes there are cases while the term is misused by people who are ignorant or delusional as I stated above. And yes there are cases of decent looking people who have terrible social skills that puts them socially below an uglier guy who has excellent social skills.

I don't really understand the point of this circular discussion, other than you wanting miscers to confirm your assertion that you are not getting laid due to circumstances beyond your control. All of this nonsense goes back to the fact that you want everyone to say: yes wincel you are an A+ guy, such good conversation and the only reason why you're not a great success with your dik inside a cooch right now and a hunred millie in your bank account is because you're ugly and not genetically gifted like chad.

Stop coping, start living bro. You deserve better than to live in Copeland (capital city of the Republic of Delusional Denial). Come join the rest of us and have a good time. I'd love for you to step out of the funk and I say that genuinely not because I'm a narcissistic psychopath who wants something from you.

Commending respect/fear.

My point was to argue that telling people to "work on their social skills" is a really vague thing that often amounts to telling them to "be genetically better". But like all misc discussions, this turned into an ad hominem discussion of me. Even if I were living in Copeland as you say, that doesn't negate my point at all. I'm looking for an explanation of what "social skills" actually are, and so far, it seems to be it amounts to "being useful" in whatever situation it is, and that might equate, especially in romantic situations, to "be more genetically gifted". You say you say that stuff to me because you don't want something from me. But really, if you see me "get better" on your advice, you will be able to pat yourself on the back and tell yourself "u dun gud". It will reinforce your bonds to the community and make you feel more well integrated into society. This is all happening behind the scenes, but this is why people do things for social benefit at their own apparent expense. It's because the collective benefits you more. You'll find that people who do not feel well integrated into society tend to be selfish or even take criminal actions because they do not view the collective as benefiting them.

You've been told it isn't and don't want to hear it.So if he gives you good advice and you take it, your life will get good, he'll feel good, and other people will see it as good.

It's almost as if society is set up to provide incentives to do beneficial things, while people who sit around whining about their DNA on the Misc get nothing.If you had better social skills, you'd be aware that those people are usually just blaming the "collective" for well-documented symptoms of common mental illnesses, such as poor impulse control and an inability to engage in long-term planning, and that their choices typically just make their situations even worse. There is no equivalency there.

How is it not?


Also, I fixed that last part for you.
So people who are ostracized from society are still supposed to work to create a better one for Chad, Chad's harem, and Chad's spawn? I see. Not buying it. There is no social contract if the terms of the contract aren't upheld by society. This also explains, sadly, why certain minority groups are disproportionately over represented in crime. These are typically groups that have been oppressed and do not feel well integrated into society.

Again, "social skills" means understanding social relations. You've made several comments that reveal, very clearly, that you are having trouble with this and don't believe that you are, and it's not hard to understand that this is why you're struggling to figure out how to form a bond with a woman. "Oh, I can have a conversation!" That's cool, but the first time you start rambling on about "feeling integrated into the collective", she's going to detect that you've formed some weird-o-rama ideas and run for the hills. You need to let go of this crap.

"Usefulness" is a separate issue. Useless fuks with bad genetics get married and reproduce all the time.The key is that the "dominant group" isn't getting their way because they are dominant, they are the dominant group because what they're doingactually gets results in real life. You don't want there to be a solution because it would involve effort on your part, and you don't understand why this is a warning sign to others.None of that is real. "Society" isn't doing this to you. You're just scaring women away acting dramatic about obscure internet memes.

No. They are the dominant group because their ancestors murdered a lot of people and stole a lot of stuff. And they then proceeded to set up a cultural indoctrination program that persists to this day that dictates their standards of beauty upon the world and portrays men of other ethnicities as "weird" or "effeminate". But okay. I do agree that violence gets results, and that is precisely why you see violence from the oppressed groups.

LOL Do you think I tell people my evolutionary interpretations of human behavior IRL? Fukking lol.

I've already explained everything that you repeated yet, in my original reply in this thread. I'll try again:

Social skills is an umbrella term that can refer to a variety of shortcoming as related to social interaction with other human beings. It's also possible that people who are ignorant of or reluctant to admit to the fact that looks have an impact on social perception misuse this term.

Your view of the world is informed by the lack of ability to understand that some people can be motivated beyond their personal gain and personal feelings in the moment. You think I have to have a selfish need to stroke my ego by helping you improve. It's a very 11th grader reading Ayn Rand for the first time view of the world. It tells me you havent experienced being self-less in your personal life and therefore unable to recognize this possibility in others.

The paragraph above relates to another point I brought up in the first post: there are other motivations involved in being positive in regards to other people beyond personal gain. I referenced being enthusiastic about the conversation, but the positive approach to others can be in other forms as well.

I can't convince you to understand this point of view. It depends on the person. It's a chicken and egg scenario: you'll keep telling me that I want to be positive with others only because it makes me feel good and I'll say that I do so because I choose to do so because it's the decent course of action.

It's very hard to get through one of your threads without remarks about yourself personally because most of the time it involves a discussion that you relate to your own life. Yes, I do think you need to get over yourself and make a change. I guess you would consider that an ad hominem by some ******* online who only wants you to improve so he can feel better for having contributed. Wish I could make you realize that is not the truth.

Everybody has social skills if they relate to the people. Bad social skills (besides people who have obvious severe anxiety or have never stepped foot out of their house) is caused from not fitting in their environment or not connecting with the people they are hanging out with.

Social skills are learning to be pleasant in any common social circumstance.

post a video of you talking and we'll tell you if you're an autist

basically, all of the value of social skills come down to whether you make people laugh when you talk to them

the fact that you say you can "out converse" people says a lot srs

True selflessness probably shouldn't exist. Your own ego is interfering with your acknowledgement of your true motivations. Human eusociality emerges precisely for the reasons I mentioned before (the collective benefits of society to survival and reproduction). You're making a lot of baseless assumptions about me, but I'm not going to play that game with you. Again, you claim there are other motivations to helping others beyond personal gain, but you ARE gaining by helping others indirectly and that is why you do it. If you truly gained nothing or it even hurt you, you wouldn't do it. I was arguing that most social interactions between human beings amount to transactional interactions. All this "social" mumbo jumbo is really about being useful.

Which "group" do you have in mind, here? There are about 70 million fathers in the United States today, which is about 80% of all adult men. Everybody's figuring out how to fuk just fine, brah.So these unspecified "oppressed groups" are behaving selfishly and violently because they don't "feel well-integrated", yet their lives still suck and the "normies" continue to prosper.

Weird. Nobody could have predicted that.Do you actually think it's possible to be this steeped in weird bullchit and not creep people out during routine conversations? Do you not think that you're missing beats about ordinary social things that others pick up on naturally and wonder "why the hell did this guy just say that" before politely excusing themselves?

It is the obvious explanation for the problem you described with women being receptive at first but ejecting once you start engaging with them on a personal level.

If you're getting interviews but no job offer, the resume is fine. If women are surprised you've never had a long-term girlfriend, youare not obviously un-dateable. Something is going wrong in the way you're interacting with people that they're trying to warn you about your social skills. Most likely that you're saying some really out-of-touch chit, even if you're saying it very nicely and very well.

You've made 10,000 posts on this site. My assumptions aren't baseless, they're based on the many comments you have made. Is it a complete and accurate picture? No of course not. But neither is it baseless.

You call our discussion a "game"... okay, that's fine, let's stop "playing". I'm sure we'll continue this discussion another day in another thread that discusses a similar scope of topics.

Oh okay.

Their lives still suck because they haven't been violent enough. If they won, things would swing more in their favor. Sad, but true. The trend is really as obvious as it seems. Wealth and dominance signals attractiveness, and poverty and subjugation signals the opposite. And this is just one factor...ethnicity is just one aspect that people get judged for. There are many others. My point is, if the combo is bad enough and the person isn't integrated into society, it will no longer make sense for them to benefit it. Anyway, this thread has gone on long enough. I'm satisfied with the result and my conclusion.

Yeah, Zimbabwe is awesome, I'm vacationing there this summer, but I thought we were talking about why some people don't get to bang.

Are you seriously arguing that black guys aren't reproducing?

That's what the chart seems to show. And that's data taken from thousands of OKC users and not an opinion. A lot of black guys struggle to get girls, yes. Anyway, I don't want to make this another race thread. Race is always a part of it, but it isn't the whole thing. I was just using it to show my point.LOL you went there. OK I see who I'm talking to now. Out.

Now I see all your posts as "Help me fuk you in the ass."

Nah, bruh. I'm good.