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Forum » Wincel still p4p biggest scumbag on here
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Thread: Wincel still p4p biggest scumbag on here

post 1566948781 11-23-2018, 01:03 PM
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#271
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
...yes...and? My point was that infertility itself makes people very unhappy, and there is a good reason for that. Do you really think it is the common causes of infertility themselves and not the fact that one might never have kids that is leading to the depression? Really?
Your lack of objectiveness is showing, I am showing you it is not a foregone conclusion with many variables and you are playing the game of "yeah but it must be this because I feel a certain way" without any evidence to support your claim or actual rebuttal.

Your argument has gone from "infertility is the cause of suicide" to "my point was that infertility itself makes people very unhappy" when I'm literally shown you being infertile is one of many bodily processes involved in the process of becoming infertility that would make someone depressed and unhappy.

You've changed your argument in 2 posts, flip flopping. Which is it? Is it directly the cause or one of the things involved in someones ongoing depression, and how can you make the distinction? What evidence do you have? My scientifically backed point is that people with infertility caused by other conditions would be depressed BEFORE becoming infertile and this depression would remain as the condition (which caused the infertility and depression in it's own right) is on going and there is no way to tell what drove them to suicide, unless you are of course incredibly biased about it with an emotional viewpoint/confirmation bias.

Rather than get to the bottom of something you just show your confirmation bias massively in every area that props up your world view. Your ego overrides any logic you have and unfortunately denies anyone the chance of actual discourse, logic or reason with you.And you flip flop your arguments constantly.
post 1566948801 11-23-2018, 01:04 PM
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#272
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Life isn't about anything. It propagates because the method in which it sustains itself is cyclic and composed of feedback. We think we live to feel, and we think we feel to live. Neither fukkin matters, but you can never detach yourself from that. It appears to be trending backwards as far as this branch of intelligence goes.

But, asking the ultimate question is begging for an increase in scope, which just automatically reduces everything to arbitrary terms. And reducing the scope of conversation to it's smallest constituent parts turns it into petty notions of materialism.

Wincel has narrowed the topic to a discussion of evolution, but really even that's just a latch.

We're all coping, life is arbitrary, kids dying only feels bad but the universe doesn't care, hope your turkey was burnt.

So what do I do? I try to find the deepest experience in life I can that is authentic and joyful. It does seem to line up with conventional values. I can see why the angst arises in those who are frustrated with nu-fem tyranists stating everyone is a rapist before they can even resolve for themselves how to speak to a woman.
Boycott foodservice industry crew
post 1566949041 11-23-2018, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
I'm not passing any moral judgment. I am saying that not having kids directly reduces your biological fitness. This is, by definition, an irrational life strategy.
How did you determine what is and isn't a rational life strategy?

It's not conducive to the continuation of his individual genetic legacy, but how is that irrational. What literally it make it irrational?

There seems to be a hidden presupposition, that we ought to do things conducive to survival and reproduction, based on observation of nature (which is what prompted me to ask you, if you've heard of the is-ought problem).

Otherwise, on what basis are your determining what strategy is rational and irrational?

Without an objective, on what are you using to determine what is and isn't a rational strategy?







If You Don't Like To Talk About Your Feelings, This Might Help...
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178926621

The Most Heartbreaking Thing That I've Learned About 'The Elite'.
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178536851

Bitcoin And 'The Elite' - Why Bitcoin Is Not Revolutionary
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=179820783
post 1566949091 11-23-2018, 01:09 PM
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#274
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Originally Posted By DirtyDon123⏩
Your lack of objectiveness is showing, I am showing you it is not a foregone conclusion with many variables and you are playing the game of "yeah but it must be this because I feel a certain way" without any evidence to support your claim or actual rebuttal.

Your argument has gone from "infertility is the cause of suicide" to "my point was that infertility itself makes people very unhappy" when I'm literally shown you being infertile is one of many bodily processes involved in the process of becoming infertility that would make someone depressed and unhappy.

You've changed your argument in 2 posts, flip flopping. Which is it? Is it directly the cause or one of the things involved in someones ongoing depression, and how can you make the distinction? What evidence do you have? My scientifically backed point is that people with infertility caused by other conditions would be depressed BEFORE becoming infertile and this depression would remain as the condition (which caused the infertility and depression in it's own right) is on going and there is no way to tell what drove them to suicide, unless you are of course incredibly biased about it with an emotional viewpoint/confirmation bias.

Rather than get to the bottom of something you just show your confirmation bias massively in every area that props up your world view. Your ego overrides any logic you have and unfortunately denies anyone the chance of actual discourse, logic or reason with you.And you flip flop your arguments constantly.
I'm not saying it must be that way. I am saying it makes a lot more sense to me that infertility itself causes depression in people since not being able to have kids is a huge disappointment and source of emotional pain for a lot of people. I never said it HAD to be this way. You are strawmanning my position. It seems reasonable to me, but it could be that the underlying common cause to the infertility is causing the depression. It just seems quite farfetched to me. It's not flipflopping if people misinterpret and strawman my points over and over again. Everything I said was consistent.
post 1566949141 11-23-2018, 01:09 PM
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#275
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My Dad used to tell me he was just stupid enough to be happy. Y'all should take that chit to heart.
Train hard, train smart, have fun!

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post 1566949211 11-23-2018, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
How did you determine what is and isn't a rational life strategy.

It's not conducive to the continuation of his individual genetic legacy, but how is that irrational. What literally it make it irrational?

There seems to be a hidden presupposition, that we ought to do things conducive to survival and reproduction.

Otherwise, on what basis are your determining what strategy is rational and irrational?

Without an objective, on what are you using to determine what is and isn't a rational strategy?
I am judging what is a rational life strategy by what strategy maximizes an organism's biological fitness. As I said before, if one doesn't care about his or her biological fitness, then it doesn't matter. I am saying that "if one cares about maximizing one's biological fitness, one ought to use a different strategy." That is all I am saying. I have not given any reason "why" one ought to care about maximizing one's biological fitness, but I have argued that if one deliberately chooses not to reproduce, then that individual's genes won't be passed on.
post 1566949281 11-23-2018, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
I am judging what is a rational life strategy by what strategy maximizes an organism's biological fitness.
OK, so what justifies using that specific basis for determining a rational life strategy?
If You Don't Like To Talk About Your Feelings, This Might Help...
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178926621

The Most Heartbreaking Thing That I've Learned About 'The Elite'.
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178536851

Bitcoin And 'The Elite' - Why Bitcoin Is Not Revolutionary
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=179820783
post 1566949331 11-23-2018, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
I'm not passing any moral judgment. I am saying that not having kids directly reduces your biological fitness. This is, by definition, an irrational life strategy. Lifeforms that employ this strategy will not reproduce, and their genes won't be passed to the next generation. That's all I am saying.



It matters if biological fitness matters to you. If it doesn't, then, whatever. But I am not sure it makes sense to attribute anything else as more important than biological fitness for a lifeform.

Again, if happiness is a goal, one can simply do drugs and medicate oneself to that state. I am not sure it is a sensible goal as a lifeform. The "purpose" of life really does seem to be survival and replication. So, it would make sense to take actions to promote that. Granted, we could argue there is no "purpose" and that it doesn't matter, etc. Fair enough. There is no instruction manual that tells you how to live your life. The survivors are the only ones keeping the genetic score merely by existing, and if you don't care about the scoreboard, then it doesn't really matter much what you do.
yes, but that only increases temporary happiness but decreases overall happiness (due to neurochemical compensatory negative feedback mechanisms in the brain). this is principally why drug use is self-defeating. it's the happiness area under the curve, plotted over the course of your entire life, that determines your success or failure.

the only way to really fail at life is to knowingly make decisions counter to what makes you happy. to unknowingly do so is also failure, but not necessarily your fault. the number of people who think having kids will make them happier but who find it does the opposite is massive.
Make Europe Germany Again
post 1566949411 11-23-2018, 01:13 PM
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#279
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
I'm not saying it must be that way. I am saying it makes a lot more sense to me that infertility itself causes depression in people since not being able to have kids is a huge disappointment and source of emotional pain for a lot of people. I never said it HAD to be this way. You are strawmanning my position. It seems reasonable to me, but it could be that the underlying common cause to the infertility is causing the depression. It just seems quite farfetched to me.
Thats fair enough brah but its purely your opinion,especially given the breakthroughs in IVF treatments and other ways to inseminate artificially. It's far from a foregone conclusion imo given that people nowadays have different avenues to have children, adoption being another example.

I'm not saying it's one way or the other but the multitude of factors make it impossible to tell
post 1566949421 11-23-2018, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted By redraider86⏩
My Dad used to tell me he was just stupid enough to be happy. Y'all should take that chit to heart.
I'll be glad to make him my father in law one day, my Jewish princess.
If You Don't Like To Talk About Your Feelings, This Might Help...
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178926621

The Most Heartbreaking Thing That I've Learned About 'The Elite'.
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178536851

Bitcoin And 'The Elite' - Why Bitcoin Is Not Revolutionary
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=179820783
post 1566949711 11-23-2018, 01:18 PM
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#281
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Originally Posted By Ratfish⏩
yes, but that only increases temporary happiness but decreases overall happiness (due to neurochemical compensatory negative feedback mechanisms in the brain). this is principally why drug use is self-defeating. it's the happiness area under the curve, plotted over the course of your entire life, that determines your success or failure.

the only way to really fail at life is to knowingly make decisions counter to what makes you happy. to unknowingly do so is also failure, but not necessarily your fault. the number of people who think having kids will make them happier but who find it does the opposite is massive.
So, if there were a machine that would permanently leave you in a state of happiness, would that be the end goal of your life? I don't think happiness is the goal of life at all. As I said, I think all life seems to survive and reproduce, and I think if we must attribute any sort of goal to our own existence, it would make a lot of sense to set that as our goal rather than some other thing, since our intelligence is itself an adaptive trait that persisted due to its advantages in helping us survive and reproduce.
post 1566949741 11-23-2018, 01:19 PM
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#282
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
I'll be glad to make him my father in law one day, my Jewish princess.
im just gonna have to point out the strength in the post to username correlation.
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post 1566949871 11-23-2018, 01:20 PM
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#283
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
. I have not given any reason "why" one ought to care about maximizing one's biological fitness, but I have argued that if one deliberately chooses not to reproduce,then that individual's genes won't be passed on.
On what basis are you calling that rational, and desire to not pass on one's genes irrational?

It sounds like it was this...

Survival and reproduction is universal to all life forms.

Therefore that ought to be the basis for determining what is and isn't a rational life strategy.

Is that correct?
If You Don't Like To Talk About Your Feelings, This Might Help...
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178926621

The Most Heartbreaking Thing That I've Learned About 'The Elite'.
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178536851

Bitcoin And 'The Elite' - Why Bitcoin Is Not Revolutionary
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=179820783
post 1566949891 11-23-2018, 01:21 PM
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#284
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
OK, so what justifies using that specific basis for determining a rational life strategy?
Intelligence and thought itself persisted only because of its advantage to survival and reproduction. It seems to be the common theme for all life. It would make sense to set that as your rational life strategy. Of course, you are free to set it to whatever you want it to be. I will never argue for how something "ought" to be in general because there is no way to determine such a thing. I can only say how it ought to be given certain assumptions, and I made those assumptions clear.
post 1566950061 11-23-2018, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted By hoganrulz⏩
im just gonna have to point out the strength in the post to username correlation.
How you gonna play me like this?

When I'm trying to get into her DMs?
If You Don't Like To Talk About Your Feelings, This Might Help...
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178926621

The Most Heartbreaking Thing That I've Learned About 'The Elite'.
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178536851

Bitcoin And 'The Elite' - Why Bitcoin Is Not Revolutionary
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=179820783
post 1566950161 11-23-2018, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
How you gonna play me like this?

When I'm trying to get into her DMs?
we've all been there homie
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they call me Don Taters
NYM
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WE GONNA WIN THE FUKING SUPERBOWL SOON BAYBEH
Hala Madrid
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This is all OJ's fault
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First I romance the pie maker, then I romance the pie
post 1566950251 11-23-2018, 01:26 PM
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#287
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
Intelligence and thought itself persisted only because of its advantage to survival and reproduction. It seems to be the common theme for all life. It would make sense to set that as your rational life strategy.
Makes sense on what basis?

That's what I've getting at, though you answer that in the following quote.
I can only say how it ought to be given certain assumptions,and I made those assumptions clear.
Exactly.

That's the is-ought problem.

Your notion of what is and isn't a rational life strategy is conditional. Based on assumptions, presuppositions, and/or sentiment.
If You Don't Like To Talk About Your Feelings, This Might Help...
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178926621

The Most Heartbreaking Thing That I've Learned About 'The Elite'.
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178536851

Bitcoin And 'The Elite' - Why Bitcoin Is Not Revolutionary
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=179820783
post 1566950281 11-23-2018, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
So, if there were a machine that would permanently leave you in a state of happiness, would that be the end goal of your life? I don't think happiness is the goal of life at all. As I said, I think all life seems to survive and reproduce, and I think if we must attribute any sort of goal to our own existence, it would make a lot of sense to set that as our goal rather than some other thing, since our intelligence is itself an adaptive trait that persisted due to its advantages in helping us survive and reproduce.
there is such a machine, it's called a computer lolz. i'm so happy day to day that the thought of increasing my happiness doesn't really occur to me srs.

you're making the mistake of concocting a simplistic view of a very complex system and ascribing very human constructs to it. win/lose/goal/fail are all silly. life is simply energy flowing from the sun and being temporarily trapped in organisms before it eventually flows out of them. the more macro your viewpoint, the more silly you will find it that you have created rules in order to make yourself feel unhappy. you will find that should you achieve these arbitrary goals, happiness will be even further from your reach.
Make Europe Germany Again
post 1566950351 11-23-2018, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
On what basis are you calling that rational, and desire to not pass on one's genes irrational?

It sounds like it was this...

Survival and reproduction is universal to all life forms.

Therefore that ought to be the basis for determining what is and isn't a rational life strategy.

Is that correct?
Add the words "assuming the lifeform is seeking to maximize its own biological fitness" at the end of the therefore sentence. One is always free to write off something as unimportant. If that happens, there is no way for me to make the argument that it matters.
post 1566950761 11-23-2018, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
Add the words "assuming the lifeform is seeking to maximize its own biological fitness" at the end of the therefore sentence. One is always free to write off something as unimportant. If that happens, there is no way for me to make the argument that it matters.
Yep.

That's what people have been arguing with you about, since you came into this thread basically.

Everyone else has a different foundational set of values, presuppositions and assumptions to you when looking at the world.

You're entire foundation seems to solely be based on... "assuming the lifeform is seeking to maximize its own biological fitness", and no other consideration.

That seems to be the sole basis by which you determine a good life or not. Everyone here disagrees, and you don't seem to understand why. They value things other than"being a lifeform seeking to maximize its own biological fitness".
If You Don't Like To Talk About Your Feelings, This Might Help...
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178926621

The Most Heartbreaking Thing That I've Learned About 'The Elite'.
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178536851

Bitcoin And 'The Elite' - Why Bitcoin Is Not Revolutionary
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=179820783
post 1566950801 11-23-2018, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
Makes sense on what basis?

That's what I've getting at, though you answer that in the following quote.



Exactly.

That's the is-ought problem.

Your notion of what is and isn't a rational life strategy is conditional. Based on assumptions, presuppositions, and/or sentiment.
Every statement is based on assumptions, dude. That doesn't really weaken anything I said. To illustrate further what you are saying:

Me: Choosing not to reproduce results in reduced biological fitness, and so, it is a maladaptive and irrational life strategy for a lifeform that seeks to maximize its biological fitness.

You: Why does maximizing biological fitness matter?

Me: I cannot answer why something ought to matter or not. I can only show you how things are happening, and make predictions about what will happen. Lifeforms that choose not to reproduce are not going to pass on their genes. Intelligence persisted due to its advantages to survival and reproduction, but in this case, it worked against the lifeform's fitness. I do think it is funny that life evolves for 3.8 billion years, and intelligence emerges in a descendant only for the descendant to voluntarily choose to end its lineage.
post 1566951011 11-23-2018, 01:36 PM
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This thread is boring as fuc.


miscer -"life is nothing more than a random collection of atoms!"

miscer - "you be wrong, life is providence itself"

miscer - "to have kids, or not to have kids, that is the question!"


How about a Christmas song and some goodwill to all men (and women)?

Sing along everyone!

Good King Wincelas looked out
On the feast of Stephen
When the snow lay round about
Deep and crisp and even
Brightly shone the moon that night
Though the frost was cruel
When a poor man came in sight
Gath'ring winter fuel

"Hither, page, and stand by me
If thou know'st it, telling
Yonder peasant, who is he?
Where and what his dwelling?"
"Sire, he lives a good league hence
Underneath the mountain
Right against the forest fence
By Saint Agnes' fountain."

"Bring me flesh and bring me wine
Bring me pine logs hither
Thou and I will see him dine
When we bear him thither."
Page and monarch forth they went
Forth they went together
Through the rude wind's wild lament
And the bitter weather

"Sire, the night is darker now
And the wind blows stronger
Fails my heart, I know not how,
I can go no longer."
"Mark my footsteps, my good page
Tread thou in them boldly
Thou shalt find the winter's rage
Freeze thy blood less coldly."

In his master's steps he trod
Where the snow lay dinted
Heat was in the very sod
Which the Saint had printed
Therefore, Christian men, be sure
Wealth or rank possessing
Ye who now will bless the poor
Shall yourselves find blessing
post 1566951121 11-23-2018, 01:38 PM
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#293
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
Yep.

That's what people have been arguing with you about, since you came into this thread basically.

Everyone else has a different foundational set of values, presuppositions and assumptions to you when looking at the world.

You're entire foundation seems to solely be based on... "assuming the lifeform is seeking to maximize its own biological fitness", and no other consideration.

That seems to be the sole basis by which you determine a good life or not. Everyone here disagrees, and you don't seem to understand why. They value things other than"being a lifeform seeking to maximize its own biological fitness".
Well, the ones who disagree and have foundational sets of values, presuppositions, and assumptions that result in them not reproducing are using the gift of intelligence that persisted precisely because of its advantage to survival and reproduction to make a decision against their survival and reproduction that would end a lineage of 3.8 billion years. I think that is a funny thing to do. I think it is dumb not to value biological fitness as a lifeform, but everyone is free to value whatever they value. The difference, as I said, is that some genes will ultimately pass on and others won't. Whether you care about it or not is your own choice.

It is easy to say "Yeah but that doesn't matter." to anything, and argue that nobody can tell you your strategy is dumb because you weren't trying to win.
"I don't care about winning anyway." The truth is that we are playing a game, and there are winners and losers. The winners are the ones with high biological fitness. The losers are the ones with low biological fitness. You can say you don't care about the outcome of the game and that is totally fine, but you are still playing, and your strategy can still be deemed good or bad based on how likely it makes you to win. You may not care that your strategy is bad, but it is still objectively bad because it means you won't win.

There is also the issue that, in the absence of any information given to choose how something ought to be and to set your goals, it makes a lot of sense to look at how things are to figure out what you are "supposed" to do. After all, you rely on instinct to tell you to fuk a woman and eat. The is-ought dichotomy is mostly developed by philosophers who believed in souls and externalities to the physical universe. Someone like me will tell you that there is only really the "is" as far as we know. All your goals are also formulated by how things literally are, in terms of the configurations of the particles that comprise your brain. It sounds to me like you try to invoke some sort of freedom of choice and mind from the physical existence. I dispute that there is actually such a freedom. It seems to me to be mostly an illusion.
post 1566952091 11-23-2018, 01:58 PM
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#294
  1. JoeDelts
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Originally Posted By Ratfish⏩
yes, the desire to fukk is programmed into your dna. the desire to make a baby is programmed into your mind by other people.
You're projecting and validating your own beliefs (no desire to have kids). What's to say that your (and many others) desire NOT to have kids has been programmed into YOUR mind. We are ALL being programed incessantly, around the clock to CONSUME CONSUME CONSUME, BUY BUY BUY. STUFF WILL MAKE YOU HAPPY. And when it no longer does it's because YOU NEED TO BUY MORE/ NEWER STUFF.

The (most important) part that does not need to be stated is that you will need to work (ie. serve the system) in order to consume.
post 1566953641 11-23-2018, 02:23 PM
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#295
  1. TypeNirvash
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To the above discourse:

Regardless of whether or not something is maladaptive, does it really matter? We are literally a speck of dust in the cosmos of time, and we'll all be forgotten eventually. I find that we're all way too self-important about certain things.

It's nihilistic, sure.

But we've advanced past the point of needing adaptive strategies for survival in most scenarios. You don't have to look very far to see that. We're not really here for a long time, anyway. Do stuff that helps you extract the most enjoyment from life while you are here, and try to help your fellow humans enjoy that life too. We need to be less self-important.
Originally Posted By JoeDelts⏩
You're projecting and validating your own beliefs (no desire to have kids). What's to say that your (and many others) desire NOT to have kids has been programmed into YOUR mind. We are ALL being programed incessantly, around the clock to CONSUME CONSUME CONSUME, BUY BUY BUY. STUFF WILL MAKE YOU HAPPY. And when it no longer does it's because YOU NEED TO BUY MORE/ NEWER STUFF.

The (most important) part that does not need to be stated is that you will need to work (ie. serve the system) in order to consume.
Who is to say whether or not any original thoughts are left?

Who is to say whether or not anything is authentic anymore?

Might as well just do what you desire to do the most.
post 1566953961 11-23-2018, 02:29 PM
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#296
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ughh I hope this doesnt ruin my weekend, but someone please aware me on who died?
post 1566954041 11-23-2018, 02:31 PM
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#297
  1. W1LLW
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Have we verified if Wincel was telling the truth about his mom attempting to jerk him off in his youth?


Brain kinda nuked you all are still debating him on stuff if that brew was in fact real stew.
Kobe Forever
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post 1566954361 11-23-2018, 02:35 PM
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#298
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Originally Posted By W1LLW⏩
Have we verified if Wincel was telling the truth about his mom attempting to jerk him off in his youth?


Brain kinda nuked you all are still debating him on stuff if that brew was in fact real stew.
Wincest?
post 1566954701 11-23-2018, 02:41 PM
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#299
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Thread rated 5 stars 10/10
"In the end, we're all just chalk lines on the sidewalk, drawn only to be washed away, and in the time I've been given, I am what I am"

Starting Weight: 280lbs+ (PR 310lbs)
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post 1566954711 11-23-2018, 02:41 PM
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#300
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Cliffs of thread?
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