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Forum » You can only pick one martial art
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Thread: You can only pick one martial art

post 1572997631 02-06-2019, 03:24 AM
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#181
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bjj for sure is number 1

boxing is close second - I would actually put it first but to get good at it you need to spar and im not a fan of head truma

lol at krav maga load of ****
post 1573018161 02-06-2019, 10:09 AM
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#182
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Originally Posted By Train_Harder⏩
LOL, not everyone has a weak jaw, and not every striker has KO power at their will.

You're 20 years too late on this theory. The evolution of the UFC/MMA proved that pure wrestlers will beat pure boxers in a full contact fight most of the time. There may be a fluke knockout here and there by a striker, but most of the time the wrestler can eat a shot going in and/or the striker doesn't hit hard enough for a one punch KO, then he gets slammed on the ground. It's worse on the street, as getting slammed on concrete is a helluva lot more destructive than getting slammed on a mat.

Do you really think Floyd Mayweather, the arguably greatest boxer for his weight of all time, could beat an Olympic wrestling champion of his own weight in a full contact fight? Seriously?
MMA fighters also train to strike, so they know at least a thing or two about striking, no matter if they're pure wrestlers or not. In that instance ofc the MMA fighter will win almost every time. I'm talking about a wrestler whod had never learned to strike, never had a striker pop him a good one in the mouth or eaten a proper leg kick.

And yes, I think Mayweather will KO the wrestler 99% of the time, unless that wrestler has experience with MMA or a striking martial art.
Originally Posted By KENKONG⏩
wrong
Wrong
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post 1573018451 02-06-2019, 10:14 AM
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I consider myself a brawler with strong punches

I can take a punch too my jaw is pretty much cabbage lol

If I could pick one to excel at is probably Choose wrestling
post 1573019111 02-06-2019, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted By Azn00Superman⏩
MMA fighters also train to strike, so they know at least a thing or two about striking, no matter if they're pure wrestlers or not. In that instance ofc the MMA fighter will win almost every time. I'm talking about a wrestler whod had never learned to strike, never had a striker pop him a good one in the mouth or eaten a proper leg kick.
Did you completely miss the early years of the UFC?

The had enough striker vs grappler matches, that it became the consensus that 9/10 the grappler will win.

(Dan Severn used to throw strikers around like rag dolls, if you think I'm lying, check him out.)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l5HMcYReUc

Then the strikers began training grappling defence, and then the game began to change.
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post 1573019801 02-06-2019, 10:29 AM
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#185
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
Did you completely miss the early years of the UFC?

The had enough striker vs grappler matches, that it became the consensus that 9/10 the grappler will win. (Dan Severn used to throw strikers around like rag dolls, if you think I'm lying, check him out.)

Then the strikers began training grappling defence, and then the game began to change.
Early UFC never had elite strikers. Even now theres only a handful of top strikers and everyone else strike at the level of an amateur boxer, but UFC had always attracted top wrestling/grappling talents. And idk why you keep mentioning UFC, no one gets to fight in the UFC only knowing how to strike or grapple. You can pull Brock ****ing Lesnar fresh from WWE and not teach him how to fight/defend against strikes/grapple, he would get ****ed by a middleweight.
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post 1573024381 02-06-2019, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted By Azn00Superman⏩
Early UFC never had elite strikers. Even now theres only a handful of top strikers and everyone else strike at the level of an amateur boxer, but UFC had always attracted top wrestling/grappling talents.
K1 tier strikers have been in the UFC and Pride FC.

Literally a K1 champion Alistair Overeem, went to the UFC after he climbed to the top of K1. He never became a UFC champion.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhjK3KzSgtY

I hope you aren't going to tell me that K1 is a non top-tier striking competition.
And idk why you keep mentioning UFC, no one gets to fight in the UFC only knowing how to strike or grapple.
Modern UFC yes.

Early UFC no.

There were pure strikers and pure grapplers.
You can pull Brock ****ing Lesnar fresh from WWE and not teach him how to fight/defend against strikes/grapple, he would get ****ed by a middleweight.
Lesnar was NCAA Division 1 Heavyweight wrestling champ, so that was a really bad example.

Plus they do experience pain and injuries in the WWE (it's a very physically demanding job, even though it's 'fake', it's like real-time stunt work).

My money is on Lesnar against a middleweight, even with minimal extra training.

Athletically he's a beast, combined with the extremely high collegiate wrestling ability that he had, combined with a high pain threshold... Dude would be a nightmare for even the middleweight champ, as a raw heavyweight.
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post 1573029081 02-06-2019, 12:35 PM
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#187
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Yoga, idiots.
post 1573029691 02-06-2019, 12:44 PM
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There were strikers in early ufc

After the early tournament days it became more grapple based for awhile with guys like Coleman, Kerr and Severn.

The one to stray from the pack were Liddell and wand

That’s how I remember it growing up anyway
post 1573032411 02-06-2019, 01:08 PM
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#189
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Originally Posted By Azn00Superman⏩
And yes, I think Mayweather will KO the wrestler 99% of the time, unless that wrestler has experience with MMA or a striking martial art.
What in the fu@k? You seriously think Mayweather could beat an Olympic Gold Medalist wrestler in a full contact fight?

You do realize that Mayweather isn't a big 'one punch' KO artist, or KO artist at all, right? Mcgreggor ate shots from him for numerous rounds, standing face to face, fighting him at his own game. A pure wrestler (who's 100x better at takedowns than Mcgreggor) would pull a Randy Couture vs James Tony and simply do a low single leg, eat anything that may come his way and take Mayweather down in seconds. Mayweather would be useless on the ground, like a fish out of water.

Royce Gracie proved the value of grappling 20+ years ago against pure strikers, and it was well known Royce couldn't strike well, so those early days of the UFC served as a decent proving ground for 'pure' martial art vs 'pure' martial art, and the grapplers dominated. Now everything is different because the secret is out, you have to have a good base in grappling and also everything else.

Someone used the example earlier of Chuck Liddell as a striker who dominated in the UFC. What they didn't mention was that he was a College Wrestler. He effectively used his wrestling for takedown defense. Takedown defense at his level is a skill all on its own, and any pure striker without any grappling experience would be @hit at trying to defend any chain-wrestling attacks.

You've never wrestled have you?

I've spent 6 years wrestling and 1 year boxing. Not much at all, but I can tell you for a fact that even 1 year of wrestling sets you apart by a lot by someone who has zero experience in grappling. 1 year in boxing just gives you a slight bump up from a good natural striker. That's how much of a difference wrestling knowledge comes into play.

I'm sure any miscers who were good in high school wrestling can vouch for how easy it was/is whenever they wrestled around with a non wrestler at a party or were in a street fight to take the opponent down. It's ridiculously easy.
post 1573035481 02-06-2019, 01:44 PM
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#190
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
K1 tier strikers have been in the UFC and Pride FC.

Literally a K1 champion Alistair Overeem, went to the UFC after he climbed to the top of K1. He never became a UFC champion.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhjK3KzSgtY

I hope you aren't going to tell me that K1 is a non top-tier striking competition.



Modern UFC yes.

Early UFC no.

There were pure strikers and pure grapplers.



Lesnar was NCAA Division 1 Heavyweight wrestling champ, so that was a really bad example.

Plus they do experience pain and injuries in the WWE (it's a very physically demanding job, even though it's 'fake', it's like real-time stunt work).

My money is on Lesnar against a middleweight, even with minimal extra training.

Athletically he's a beast, combined with the extremely high collegiate wrestling ability that he had, combined with a high pain threshold... Dude would be a nightmare for even the middleweight champ, as a raw heavyweight.
I said before that a wrestler needs to have some striking skill to win against a striker, your examples dont prove me wrong. You're listing MMA fighter with wrestling specialty vs MMA fighter with striker specialty, the one with wrestling emphasis wins, which I never disputed. My point pertains to what martial art to train for a regular person. If you grab a good high school wrestler and make him fight a high schooler who trains Muay Thai and has fights under his belt, the second kid will destroy the wrestler kid almost every time. Now if you take the wrestler kid and put him in a Muay thai gym, get him a few fights and he will win almost every time against the pure muay thai kid.
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post 1573036101 02-06-2019, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted By Azn00Superman⏩
I said before that a wrestler needs to have some striking skill to win against a striker, your examples dont prove me wrong.
The early UFCs do.

Have you watched them?
You're listing MMA fighter with wrestling specialty vs MMA fighter with striker specialty, the one with wrestling emphasis wins, which I never disputed.
You spoke about top tier strikers not being a part of the UFC, when K1 strikers have entered UFC and Pride FC. They didn't all dominate, despite their elite striking level.

Do you disagree that top tier strikers have been in the UFC and Pride FC?
My point pertains to what martial art to train for a regular person. If you grab a good high school wrestler and make him fight a high schooler who trains Muay Thai and has fights under his belt, the second kid will destroy the wrestler kid almost every time.
My money is on the good high school wrestler 9/10.

A take down will effectively nullify the Muay Thai kid.

I also know that the high school wrestling training is tough and systematic.

(I used to train Muay Thai. Only for 8 months, but I have trained.)
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post 1573036451 02-06-2019, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted By Train_Harder⏩
What in the fu@k? You seriously think Mayweather could beat an Olympic Gold Medalist wrestler in a full contact fight?
Lol the one who should say "what the ****" is me. You're gonna tell me one of the best boxers of all time will lose to someone whose experience with combat is hugging and throwing people around? Lol
You do realize that Mayweather isn't a big 'one punch' KO artist, or KO artist at all, right? Mcgreggor ate shots from him for numerous rounds, standing face to face, fighting him at his own game.
Of course youd believe this baloney. Mayweather carried Mcgregor for the entire match, period.
A pure wrestler (who's 100x better at takedowns than Mcgreggor) would pull a Randy Couture vs James Tony and simply do a low single leg, eat anything that may come his way and take Mayweather down in seconds.
Couture is an MMA fighter. He knows how to strike. Not the same as what I said.
Royce Gracie proved the value of grappling 20+ years ago against pure strikers, and it was well known Royce couldn't strike well, so those early days of the UFC served as a decent proving ground for 'pure' martial art vs 'pure' martial art, and the grapplers dominated.
There are too few if any elite strikers in the UFC back then. Also way lower level of competition.


I've spent 6 years wrestling and 1 year boxing. Not much at all, but I can tell you for a fact that even 1 year of wrestling sets you apart by a lot by someone who has zero experience in grappling. 1 year in boxing just gives you a slight bump up from a good natural striker. That's how much of a difference wrestling knowledge comes into play.
You boxed for 1 year. One year. In a martial art that uses a quarter of striking weapon.
I'm sure any miscers who were good in high school wrestling can vouch for how easy it was/is whenever they wrestled around with a non wrestler at a party or were in a street fight to take the opponent down. It's ridiculously easy.
And anybody who's half decent at striking can tell you how ridiculously easy it is to KO any random guy in a street fight. Most of the time it doesnt take more than a 1-2 combo
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post 1573036951 02-06-2019, 02:03 PM
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#193
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
The early UFCs do.

Have you watched them?
Yeah, they literally allow anyone to fight, even wing Chun guys.

You spoke about top tier strikers not being a part of the UFC, when K1 strikers have entered UFC and Pride FC. They didn't all dominate, despite their elite striking level.
Again, mma fighters with striking emphasis will lose to mma fighters with wrestling emphasis most of the time. Why do I have to keep repeating myself?
Do you disagree that top tier strikers have been in the UFC and Pride FC?
A few.

My money is on the good high school wrestler 9/10.

A take down will effectively nullify the Muay Thai kid.
Yeah, if the wrestler knows how to fight. The muay thai kid only have to lift his knee at the takedown and its game over.
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post 1573037241 02-06-2019, 02:08 PM
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#194
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Not so fast:

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post 1573037691 02-06-2019, 02:14 PM
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#195
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Originally Posted By Azn00Superman⏩
Yeah, they literally allow anyone to fight, even wing Chun guys.
OK...

Do you remember;

Royce Gracie (BJJ) vs Art Jimmerson (boxing)?

Ken Shamrock (Shoot fighting trained, but he only used submission wrestling in the first UFC) vs Patrick Smith (Kickboxer).

(In case you don't know Patrick Smith was a good enough striker that he knocked out Andy Hug in K1, and only lost to the Legendary Peter Aerts in the semi final.)

Remember how both those fights went?

There's no need to theorize about 'what if', we know what happens when grapplers and strikers meet in a one on one match. Unless the striker gets a good shot or combo off, once they clinch or get taken down... They are phucked.
Again, mma fighters with striking emphasis will lose to mma fighters with wrestling emphasis most of the time. Why do I have to keep repeating myself?
That didn't answer the question.
A few.
There's been more than 'a few' K1/Glory/Muay Thai fighters who have tried their hands at UFC/Pride FC/MMA over the years.
Yeah, if the wrestler knows how to fight.The muay thai kid only have to lift his knee at the takedownand its game over.
How often does that happen in MMA competition?

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but why is the go to defence for strikers when it comes to takedowns sprawling or checking the shoulders?

Why not a knee to the head?

The K1 fighters didn't have a high enough skill level to pull it off?
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post 1573037811 02-06-2019, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted By Mr.PissShivers⏩
Not so fast:

Yeah, not so fast.

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post 1573038351 02-06-2019, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted By Azn00Superman⏩
Yeah, not so fast.

Cyborg was never known for his wrestling skills dude.

Never.

He was known for a having Muay Thai + BJJ style.
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post 1573038451 02-06-2019, 02:26 PM
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#198
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
OK...

Do you remember;

Royce Gracie (BJJ) vs Art Jimmerson (boxing)?

Ken Shamrock (Shoot fighting trained, but he only used submission wrestling in the first UFC) vs Patrick Smith (Kickboxer).

(In case you don't know Patrick Smith was a good enough striker that he knocked out Andy Hug in K1, and only lost to the Legendary Peter Aerts in the semi final.)
.Jimmerson lost pretty much every single fight he fought before joining the UFC for a paycheck. The guy is over the hill.

Patrick Smith is a nobody, his victory over a Andy Hug was Hug's 3rd kickboxing fight of his career, he fought a green and inexperienced Andy Hug.




How often does that happen in MMA competition?

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but why is the go to defence for strikers when it comes to takedowns sprawling or checking the shoulders?

Why not a knee to the head?

The K1 fighters didn't have a high enough skill level to pull it off?
Not the ones you posted about apparently
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post 1573038491 02-06-2019, 02:27 PM
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[QUOTE=Azn00Superman post_id=1573037811]Yeah, not so fast.

[Youtube]-VplnCL0zfs[/youtube[/QUOTE]
Oh yes the legendary wrestler Cyborg Santos...who was countered off the right hand, not while going for a take down btw.

You made is sound so simple as if it happens all the time. Of course it does happen, but my point is that its not as automatic as you would lead people to believe.
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post 1573038551 02-06-2019, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
Cyborg was never known for his wrestling skills dude.

Never.

He was known for a having Muay Thai + BJJ style.
And MVP was never an elite striker
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post 1573038691 02-06-2019, 02:29 PM
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#201
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Originally Posted By Mr.PissShivers⏩
Oh yes the legendary wrestler Cyborg Santos...who was countered off the right not while going for a take down btw.

You made is sound so simple as if it happens all the time. Of course it does happen, but my point is that its not as automatic as you would lead people to believe.
Never led people to believe anything. Not sure why the UFC even came up, even though I said 3x now that mma fighters with wrestling emphasis will win over another fighter who's only good at striking.
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post 1573039161 02-06-2019, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted By Azn00Superman⏩
.Jimmerson lost pretty much every single fight he fought before joining the UFC for a paycheck. The guy is over the hill.

Patrick Smith is a nobody, his victory over a Andy Hug was Hug's 3rd kickboxing fight of his career, he fought a green and inexperienced Andy Hug.
3 time world Champion James Toney (41 years old) vs Olympic alternative level wrestler Randy Couture (47 years old).

Beaten using basic wrestling. Have you seen the fight?
Not the ones you posted about apparently
I'll repeat the questions...

How often does that happen in MMA competition?

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but why is the go to defence for strikers when it comes to takedowns sprawling or checking the shoulders?

Why not a knee to the head?

The K1 fighters didn't have a high enough skill level to pull it off?

I'll add a question...

If you watched much MMA, have you ever considered that a knee to the head isn't the go to defence for takedowns, due to the timing and distancing? (ie. it requiring phenomenal timing against a good wrestler).
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post 1573039281 02-06-2019, 02:37 PM
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#203
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Originally Posted By Azn00Superman⏩
And MVP was never an elite striker
He had practiced a striking art his whole life.

He came from striking to MMA.

Cyborg had not come from wrestling to MMA, so your point doesn't counter anything.

Take the L.
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post 1573039631 02-06-2019, 02:42 PM
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#204
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
3 time world Champion James Toney (41 years old) vs Olympic alternative level wrestler Randy Couture (47 years old).

Beaten using basic wrestling. Have you seen the fight?



I'll repeat the questions...

How often does that happen in MMA competition?

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but why is the go to defence for strikers when it comes to takedowns sprawling or checking the shoulders?

Why not a knee to the head?

The K1 fighters didn't have a high enough skill level to pull it off?

I'll add a question...

If you watched much MMA, have you ever considered that a knee to the head isn't the go to defence for takedowns, due to the timing and distancing? (ie. it requiring phenomenal timing against a good wrestler).
Srsly dude wtf
Originally Posted By Azn00Superman⏩
Again, mma fighters with striking emphasis will lose to mma fighters with wrestling emphasis most of the time. Why do I have to keep repeating myself?
.
Originally Posted By Azn00Superman
MMA fighters also train to strike, so they know at least a thing or two about striking, no matter if they're pure wrestlers or not. In that instance ofc the MMA fighter will win almost every time.
You're intentionally being dense
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post 1573039771 02-06-2019, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted By Azn00Superman⏩
And MVP was never an elite striker
Something was bothering me, when I typed the previous response to this, so I Googled...

MVP was an ISKA and British kickboxing champion before his teens.

He also won multiple Gold and Silver in semi-contact world championships.


Not impressed?
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post 1573039781 02-06-2019, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
He had practiced a striking art his whole life.
.
Which part of that made him an elite striker?
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post 1573039841 02-06-2019, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted By Azn00Superman⏩
Never led people to believe anything. Not sure why the UFC even came up, even though I said 3x now that mma fighters with wrestling emphasis will win over another fighter who's only good at striking.
Just to clarify, the reason I used Ben Askren as an example is because he the most one dimensional fighter there is. He is not a "mma fighter with an emphasis on wrestling", he is a wrestler with CM Punk level striking wrestling and smashing guys.
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post 1573039871 02-06-2019, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted By Azn00Superman⏩
You're intentionally being dense
You didn't answer the questions.

Why isn't a knee to the head, a common tactic against takedowns?

Why don't you answer that question?

You presented a knee to the head as the hypothetical Muay Thai kid's defence against a wrestler's takedown... If it's that simple (you believe a Muay Thai kid will defeat a good high school wrestler), why don't elite strikers use it?
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post 1573039961 02-06-2019, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted By Azn00Superman⏩
Which part of that made him an elite striker?
Why did you post him as a response if it means nothing?

Cyborg is never known as a wrestler, and doesn't come from a wrestling background.

You posted that as some kind of response to a video with someone with an actual wrestling background, ploughing through a knee attempt to the head. So why?
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post 1573039971 02-06-2019, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
Something was bothering me, when I typed the previous response to this, so I Googled...

MVP was an ISKA and British kickboxing champion before his teens.

He also won multiple Gold and Silver in semi-contact world championships.


Not impressed?
Semi-contact means point fighting, not a real fight. ISKA is a karate organization, which means no punches to the face., which takes away a huge part of striking. None of this means hes elite at striking
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