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Forum » The Dark Side Of Meditation (Long Post w/ videos)
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Thread: The Dark Side Of Meditation (Long Post w/ videos)

post 1587135141 09-02-2019, 04:08 PM
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I trust scientists over youtube propaganda

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition...ation#section2
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post 1587153221 09-02-2019, 09:37 PM
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Some of you normies are in over your head itt and it is showing. OP is specifically talking about what is referred to as ego death when he says dissolving of the self or w.e.

There are many drugs you can take to experience this, not that I advocate for it. But it is not a joke. It is fukd up shyt to have your entire sense of self dissolve.

I personally had no idea meditation could do this. Fwiw ego death is also a great thing and something people chase via going on these trips. It has helped people with disorders like OCD and strange manifestations of anxiety (checking in, had an OCD symptom that manifested in the form of social anxiety. Was by far the worst thing I've ever suffered and still do at times today).

Tldr ego death not bad but fukn powerful. Question is likelihood of experiencing ego death from fuking meditation and without drugs. If it is real, then do your research and see if that's something you wanna fuk with
post 1587153501 09-02-2019, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
I hope you watch the video, the guy presents studies and case studies, which you can Google and read for yourself.

Like he says, Mindfulness meditation is now an estimated multi-million dollar industry (combined with Yoga it's an estimate billion dollar industry), and only the positive effects are spoken about.

The idea of there being a 'dark side' to meditation is something that a lot of people don't seem to be aware of, because the mainstream media only talk about the positives.
Bottom line is: it fails to get what meditation is about. It adds things to it to attack as the strawman. You can't make a video about something if you've misrepresented it in the first place. The positive and the negatives won't be correct, and the discussion is a waste of time.
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post 1587153661 09-02-2019, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted By KirkMcquest⏩
I have been meditating for YEARS and have experienced only good, positive changes. I belonged to a Zen center for a couple of years, met dozens of long-time meditators [ 30 years or more of serious/intense daily meditation ] and never heard any of the stories you mentioned.

To be honest the whole thing seems like a Christian extremist who is trying to take a dump on meditation to push christianity and prayer in its place....which is stupid because meditation and prayer are complimentary and not at all at odds with each other. Likewise Buddhism/Taoism are not at odds with Christianity either.
OP literally thinks WiFi is bad for you. Dude is a fuking idiot literally.
post 1587153881 09-02-2019, 09:50 PM
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Agree, a strong ego is what you need to be a well functioning member of society. It is essential for your spirit.
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post 1587155101 09-02-2019, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted By supeg⏩
how do you fix this? I feel like this happened to me...
Well there are different schools of thought. Some believe that once you're in it the only way out is through, others think that it is brought on by meditation and will fade with time spent not meditating.

The pragmatic dharma folks that I'm familiar with think that once you pass the A&P, you will be cycling through the Dark Night until you achieve stream entry or you die. However the effects linger in the background but can be exacerbated by practice. So often the advice is to focus on keeping your life stable and meditating as much as you can WITHOUT destroying that stability.

Check out the Dharma Overground forums if you want a deeper dive, they have a specific sub-forum called Dealing with the Dark Night which is geared towards those who are stuck in difficult territory.
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post 1587155221 09-02-2019, 10:24 PM
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post 1587155321 09-02-2019, 10:26 PM
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Brah this is a bit spooky, I was just watching this video yesterday. Even if you don't believe in God meditation becomes dangerous through logical reasoning, you're basically a 2 year old attempting to program a highly complex computer, think about it.
post 1587155611 09-02-2019, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted By irollurmom⏩
I trust scientists over youtube propaganda

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition...ation#section2
And why do you trust scientists, you realise scientists have different views upon things right? Or are you trying to say because one study says something is true it means it's true, in which case you're saying you trust any study that fits YOUR view and not the others dismissing it?
post 1587155801 09-02-2019, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted By 20Mavs11⏩
1. Youtube only allows what they want you to see. They don't care about you. They care about pushing agendas.

2. The way the world is moving, they DON'T want you to meditate. This is why people can't even stay off their cell phones while traveling 75 mph on a phucking high way. They're addicted to constant brain stimulation.

3. TV is designed to be over stimulating. With constant commercials and or apps like netflix that give you hours of useless, but brain stimulation.

If you do the opposite of what they're pushing it will lead you to meditation. I've heard religious quacks say it's the devils work to meditate. This false propaganda is just giving them ammunition to say "I TOLD YOU SO!!!" While they shove popeye's sandwiches down their fat throats.
So basically the only two options in life are to be a sluggard or one who practices meditation... Meditation is a gatekeeper for prayer
post 1587156391 09-02-2019, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted By DassItMan⏩
Some of you normies are in over your head itt and it is showing. OP is specifically talking about what is referred to as ego death when he says dissolving of the self or w.e.

There are many drugs you can take to experience this, not that I advocate for it. But it is not a joke. It is fukd up shyt to have your entire sense of self dissolve.

I personally had no idea meditation could do this. Fwiw ego death is also a great thing and something people chase via going on these trips. It has helped people with disorders like OCD and strange manifestations of anxiety (checking in, had an OCD symptom that manifested in the form of social anxiety. Was by far the worst thing I've ever suffered and still do at times today).

Tldr ego death not bad but fukn powerful. Question is likelihood of experiencing ego death from fuking meditation and without drugs. If it is real, then do your research and see if that's something you wanna fuk with
lmao ego death is something only the weak seek, which is why so many druggies rave about their doped out "enlightenment"

good sleep habits are all that is required for a healthy mind. All the "benefits" of meditation are given by good sleep but without the side effect of becoming an "enlightened" hippie lmao
post 1587156601 09-02-2019, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted By gluon⏩
lmao ego death is something only the weak seek, which is why so many druggies rave about their doped out "enlightenment"

good sleep habits are all that is required for a healthy mind. All the "benefits" of meditation are given by good sleep but without the side effect of becoming an "enlightened" hippie lmao
Unless you're constantly on drugs or live in a mountain top forever, long term ego death is just about impossible. It will keep regenerating itself regardless. It's the human condition to structure the world, it's a subconscious need. Anyone that says otherwise are blowing smoke up your ass
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post 1587157941 09-03-2019, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted By MitchGreene⏩
christians are the only religion who are obsessed with disproving every other faith. why is this? how insecure are these phukkers that they can't just practice their own pagan inspired faith and shut the phuck up?
HAH holy chit THANK YOU!

I didn't even have to open the thread and I already knew it was some nonsense with a pro-christianity agenda.

I had a post planned out but you already summed up everything I was going to say, lol.
post 1587158491 09-03-2019, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted By Maestro⏩
HAH holy chit THANK YOU!

I didn't even have to open the thread and I already knew it was some nonsense with a pro-christianity agenda.

I had a post planned out but you already summed up everything I was going to say, lol.
There are plenty of Christians who practice meditation and plenty of atheists who are opposed to it. You don't have to be Christian to realise the dangers of meditation, it just makes it easier as the bible speaks against it. Also it's funny how you're speaking against Christians as being 'pushy' when Muslims literally behead people and Christians face persecution at genocidal levels... Not to mention atheists are just as pushy if not more with their approach, the difference being Christians believe your eternal life is at stake where as atheists do it for the sake of it.
post 1587160621 09-03-2019, 02:50 AM
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Originally Posted By irollurmom⏩
I trust scientists over youtube propaganda

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition...ation#section2
OK... The guy in the video show studies, he clearly shows the title of the studies, so you can Google them for yourself.

If you trust scientists, then you will trust the studies... Right?
If You Don't Like To Talk About Your Feelings, This Might Help...
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Bitcoin And 'The Elite' - Why Bitcoin Is Not Revolutionary
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post 1587160711 09-03-2019, 02:54 AM
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Originally Posted By DassItMan⏩
Some of you normies are in over your head itt and it is showing. OP is specifically talking about what is referred to as ego death when he says dissolving of the self or w.e.
Even though I disagree with you saying that ego death is a good thing, you seem to be one of the few people who understand specifically what I'm talking about.

I have literally promoted a video which talks about when focus on nature, sounds, sights, touch, etc, to quiet the mind. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

However, mindfulness/vipassana/Echkart Tolle stuff is literally about detaching from any and every thought, which can fundamentally change the structure of the mind (i.e. ego death). That's what the vid the OP, and the text in the OP is referring to.
If You Don't Like To Talk About Your Feelings, This Might Help...
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178926621

The Most Heartbreaking Thing That I've Learned About 'The Elite'.
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Bitcoin And 'The Elite' - Why Bitcoin Is Not Revolutionary
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=179820783
post 1587160841 09-03-2019, 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted By Silencespeaks⏩
You don’t need to do 2 hours and you can do it anywhere. You really only need a single moment, the present moment. It’s just a shift in perception of yourself and the world, an awakening arguably. You don’t need time for it.

It’s basically just focusing only on your presence and awareness and realizing that is your true identity. Recognizing thoughts as things that are separate from you. Recognizing that you are not your thoughts or your activities or your body or your worldly identities. You are just awareness.

Just simple presence. Nothing else is really real. Then that’s where derealization/depersonalization can come in which is arguably the goal but not a pleasant experience and can be counterproductive to your other goals in life.
I think I've said this to you before, but the notion that awareness is your 'true identity' is a philosophical perspective (particularly an Eastern one)... It's not necessarily 'the truth' about our identity.

I know you have come to that conclusion, but I believe you've also state (after I asked) that was after reading/listening to Eckhart Tolle and other 'non-duality' people.

Baiscally you IMO you were 'primed' to come to that conclusion. And the intent of it is to fundamentally change your sense of identity and the structure of your mind.

I'm not saying that if a person has been primed for a conclusion, that means that the conclusion is false (because I don't believe that).

I am glad at least that you are warning people the derealization/depersonalization can occur (and did occur for you after doing that meditation practice, after Eckhart Tolle's teaching)... Hopefully people will google and see that derealization/depersonalization is something to stay away from.
If You Don't Like To Talk About Your Feelings, This Might Help...
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178926621

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Bitcoin And 'The Elite' - Why Bitcoin Is Not Revolutionary
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=179820783
post 1587160891 09-03-2019, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted By MyBaddBrah⏩
Bottom line is: it fails to get what meditation is about. It adds things to it to attack as the strawman. You can't make a video about something if you've misrepresented it in the first place. The positive and the negatives won't be correct, and the discussion is a waste of time.
What has he misrepresented?

The research he presents in the first video are actual scientific studies. Regardless of if you think meditation is misrepresented or not, those studies show that there can be seriously negative consequences to long term meditation practices.

What do you think of those studies?
If You Don't Like To Talk About Your Feelings, This Might Help...
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178926621

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Bitcoin And 'The Elite' - Why Bitcoin Is Not Revolutionary
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=179820783
post 1587161051 09-03-2019, 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted By gadawada⏩
There are plenty of Christians who practice meditation and plenty of atheists who are opposed to it.
That is 100% true.
You don't have to be Christian to realise the dangers of meditation, it just makes it easier as the bible speaks against it.
Exactly.

And not only that, Christianity has a long history of 'demonlogy' or investigation regarding 'evil spirits'.

Even if someone thinks the concept of the supernatural is nonsense, the important point is that Christianity does not teach that things like; recurrent and strong suicidal thoughts, having entities appear in front of you and try to hurt you, etc, are an OK consequence spiritual practices, those things would clearly be taken as a sign of something wrong.

Whereas in modern meditation thought, it's just something to 'accept as a consequence of being on the path of spiritual awakening'.
If You Don't Like To Talk About Your Feelings, This Might Help...
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178926621

The Most Heartbreaking Thing That I've Learned About 'The Elite'.
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Bitcoin And 'The Elite' - Why Bitcoin Is Not Revolutionary
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=179820783
post 1587161081 09-03-2019, 03:13 AM
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Originally Posted By gadawada⏩
Brah this is a bit spooky, I was just watching this video yesterday. Even if you don't believe in God meditation becomes dangerous through logical reasoning,you're basically a 2 year old attempting to program a highly complex computer, think about it.
Exactly...Literallymessing with the structure of your mind, is not advisable.
If You Don't Like To Talk About Your Feelings, This Might Help...
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178926621

The Most Heartbreaking Thing That I've Learned About 'The Elite'.
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178536851

Bitcoin And 'The Elite' - Why Bitcoin Is Not Revolutionary
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=179820783
post 1587161091 09-03-2019, 03:14 AM
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Originally Posted By supeg⏩
I did long ago...
Good on you.

What exactly is going on then, buddy?
If You Don't Like To Talk About Your Feelings, This Might Help...
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178926621

The Most Heartbreaking Thing That I've Learned About 'The Elite'.
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Bitcoin And 'The Elite' - Why Bitcoin Is Not Revolutionary
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=179820783
post 1587161621 09-03-2019, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
That is 100% true.
Even if something thinks the concept of the supernatural is nonsense, the important point is that Christianity does not teach that things like; recurrent and strong suicidal thoughts, having entities appear in front of you and try to hurt you, etc, are not seen as an OK consequence of a spiritual practices, those things would clearly be taken as a sign of something wrong.

Whereas in modern meditation thought it's just something to 'accept as a consequence of being on the path of spiritual awakening'.
Is this what "modern meditation" teaches as a whole, or what one random YouTuber spits out? Do the Westboro Baptists represent all Christ's believers? I wonder how today's world would react to old crazy Abraham taking his son up a mountain based on some command from a higher being, hmmm....

Fascinating subject. I've tried and failed many times, this convinces me it's worth another shot.
Virtue is its own reward.
post 1587161851 09-03-2019, 03:55 AM
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It is scary letting go of the self. I imagine completely letting go only occurs at death. That's why an ego death feels like an impending physical death. Ego is a vehicle we use to navigate this dimension. All things should be in balance, don't try to destroy an integral part of your humanity.
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post 1587161891 09-03-2019, 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted By Johnez⏩
Is this what "modern meditation" teaches as a whole, or what one random YouTuber spits out?
It's commonly accepted that there may be a 'healing crisis' or 'dark night of the soul' period via meditation.

Here is very well respected meditation teacher Shinzen Young talking about it...

"This phenomenon, within the Buddhist tradition, is sometimes referred to as “falling into the Pit of the Void.” It entails an authentic and irreversible insight into Emptiness and No Self. What makes it problematic is that the person interprets it as a bad trip. Instead of being empowering and fulfilling, the way Buddhist literature claims it will be, it turns into the opposite. In a sense, it’s Enlightenment’s Evil Twin. This is serious but still manageable through intensive, perhaps daily, guidance under a competent teacher. In some cases it takes months or even years to fully metabolize, but in my experience the results are almost always highly positive"

https://www.shinzen.org/the-dark-night/

Combine what he just said, with the studies that the brah in the video shows... Which shows that long term Buddhist meditators (people who had surpassed 10,000 hours) reported a variety of negative experiences via meditation.

So, it's not just that Leo guy on youtube saying that.
Do the Westboro Baptists represent all Christ's believers?I wonder how today's world would react to old crazy Abraham taking his son up a mountain based on some command from a higher being, hmmm....
I've no idea if that story is even literal.

A lot of the Old testament seems to be a mixture of myth, historical fiction, archetypes, poetry and prayers.
Fascinating subject. I've tried and failed many times, this convinces me it's worth another shot.
I'm genuinely curious what made you come to that conclusion?
If You Don't Like To Talk About Your Feelings, This Might Help...
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178926621

The Most Heartbreaking Thing That I've Learned About 'The Elite'.
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Bitcoin And 'The Elite' - Why Bitcoin Is Not Revolutionary
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=179820783
post 1587162201 09-03-2019, 04:09 AM
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meditation and yoga are basically just ways to subvert christianity even more. just pray and stretch but nooo


just let go of yourself so demons can waltz right in right? For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
post 1587162231 09-03-2019, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
I'm genuinely curious what made you come to that conclusion?
Thank you for taking the time to reply.

It's been my experience that whenever there is complete agreement, something is amiss. Wherever there is heated debate, there is an element of truth somewhere to be found.
Virtue is its own reward.
post 1587162741 09-03-2019, 04:28 AM
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lmao, no it's because if young people living in modern cities believe in hippy **** like that it's no wonder they've got all their problems. Any **** I used to see on ******** who follows that meditation, yoga crap or "motivational groups" are the kind of people who were already ****ed up. It looks like they've joined a cult or pyramid scheme most of the time.
post 1587163121 09-03-2019, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted By Devils⏩
lmao, no it's because if young people living in modern cities believe in hippy **** like that it's no wonder they've got all their problems.
The brah in the video covered that, so did I in the OP (under 'secular reasons').

Basically meditation can break down 'defence mechanisms' of the mind, releasing repressed trauma. And if that happens in an instant, then it can lead to a nervous breadown (there are a number of cases of that happening on meditation retreats).

Trauma is usually best uncovered and healed gradually.
If You Don't Like To Talk About Your Feelings, This Might Help...
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post 1587163521 09-03-2019, 04:59 AM
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#89
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lol at dark side of meditation.
Look at the history, millions of people lost their lives in name of Inquisition.
Christinity and Islam are the 2 most genocidal religions on the planet.

post 1587163621 09-03-2019, 05:03 AM
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#90
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Originally Posted By Wamrage76⏩
lol at dark side of meditation.
Look at the history, millions of people lost their lives in name of Inquisition.
Christinity and Islam are the 2 most genocidal religions on the planet.

the inquisition was like the first cia dude. stop being a pacificist cuck
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