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The Dark Side Of Meditation (Long Post w/ videos)
09-03-2019, 06:16 AM
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#91
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Isn't mindfulness meditation supposed to teach us to be mindful of our thoughts and actions and how they affect the self and others? If that's the case and it's a 1.5 billion dollar industry why do I see so much selfishness and disregard for others in this world?
I believe most people that "practice" buddhism do so to make themselves look better in the eyes of others. Purely ego driven and bull**** if you ask me.
I use meditation to better myself. To be more understanding of the pain others feel and to not lash out at the world when I feel pain.
I believe most people that "practice" buddhism do so to make themselves look better in the eyes of others. Purely ego driven and bull**** if you ask me.
I use meditation to better myself. To be more understanding of the pain others feel and to not lash out at the world when I feel pain.
09-03-2019, 06:18 AM
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#92
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Originally Posted By ljusticel⏩
Let me tell you about my spiritual program and meditation techniques, just buy my book and subscribe to my seminars for $59.99 a year. On your way to healing!Isn't mindfulness meditation supposed to teach us to be mindful of our thoughts and actions and how they affect the self and others? If that's the case and it's a 1.5 billion dollar industry why do I see so much selfishness and disregard for others in this world?
I believe most people that "practice" buddhism do so to make themselves look better in the eyes of others. Purely ego driven and bull**** if you ask me.
I use meditation to better myself. To be more understanding of the pain others feel and to not lash out at the world when I feel pain.
I believe most people that "practice" buddhism do so to make themselves look better in the eyes of others. Purely ego driven and bull**** if you ask me.
I use meditation to better myself. To be more understanding of the pain others feel and to not lash out at the world when I feel pain.
09-03-2019, 07:05 AM
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#93
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So DP/DR can happen due to meditation but they are inevitable outcomes and should be viewed more like injuries during weightlifting. You wouldn't tell everybody to avoid working out at the gym just because there's a risk of tearing a pec or herniating a disc.
We just need better systems and teachers who can guide people and teach them good form to minimize the risk of negative outcomes. Right now we have people trying out all sorts of spiritual teachings and are learning based on trial and error, but the benefits can be enormous just as a solid gym routine can change a person's life.
It's great that people are beginning to talk about the downsides of meditation because this will improve our overall knowledge about the ways in which we can train our minds to operate in a healthy fashion.
We just need better systems and teachers who can guide people and teach them good form to minimize the risk of negative outcomes. Right now we have people trying out all sorts of spiritual teachings and are learning based on trial and error, but the benefits can be enormous just as a solid gym routine can change a person's life.
It's great that people are beginning to talk about the downsides of meditation because this will improve our overall knowledge about the ways in which we can train our minds to operate in a healthy fashion.
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09-03-2019, 08:28 AM
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#94
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09-03-2019, 08:51 AM
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#95
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Originally Posted By Silencespeaks⏩
IDK - there's something to be said about and benefits to be found in seeing how the sense of self and perception interact to create reality.Well the Eastern/ET perspective is the only one that has intellectually made sense to me after searching for truth for many years in other philosophical theories and religions.
From when I was a young teenager I’ve always searched for truth and true identity and I read a huge amount of books and articles etc to consider different theories, took philosophy classes, considered different religions, searched for truth in science and many other perspectives. So it was a search across many different perspectives and theories and philosophies.
None of them seemed intellectually correct and all encompassing to me until I came across Eastern philosophy/ET. Their perspective is the only one that seems to me to fully explain the truth and the self.
So I was a not blank slate searching for meaning and Eastern philosophy/ET was not the only one to suggest a truth. I had considered and rejected MANY other philosophies/truths/perspectives previously during my search. Eastern/ET was just the only one to really make sense to me.
So I still believe it’s the truth. But I don’t like to intentionally keep going further into that direction because nobody else is really there so you’ll lose touch with other people and normal society and normal life if you go too deeply that way.
Normal people and normal society revolves around ego and a very superficial (false) perspective of the world and the self. It’s an illusion but that’s where everyone is. If you detach yourself and move too far toward truth you lose connection with the rest of society and you lose your normal superficial (false) self that you need to function in this society.
So do I think depersonalization/derealization is the ultimate truth - YES. I think that is what you experience in your final moments before death as your true identity and true understanding of reality. Do I think it’s a good direction to seek if you want to function as a normal happy person in normal society - NO.
From when I was a young teenager I’ve always searched for truth and true identity and I read a huge amount of books and articles etc to consider different theories, took philosophy classes, considered different religions, searched for truth in science and many other perspectives. So it was a search across many different perspectives and theories and philosophies.
None of them seemed intellectually correct and all encompassing to me until I came across Eastern philosophy/ET. Their perspective is the only one that seems to me to fully explain the truth and the self.
So I was a not blank slate searching for meaning and Eastern philosophy/ET was not the only one to suggest a truth. I had considered and rejected MANY other philosophies/truths/perspectives previously during my search. Eastern/ET was just the only one to really make sense to me.
So I still believe it’s the truth. But I don’t like to intentionally keep going further into that direction because nobody else is really there so you’ll lose touch with other people and normal society and normal life if you go too deeply that way.
Normal people and normal society revolves around ego and a very superficial (false) perspective of the world and the self. It’s an illusion but that’s where everyone is. If you detach yourself and move too far toward truth you lose connection with the rest of society and you lose your normal superficial (false) self that you need to function in this society.
So do I think depersonalization/derealization is the ultimate truth - YES. I think that is what you experience in your final moments before death as your true identity and true understanding of reality. Do I think it’s a good direction to seek if you want to function as a normal happy person in normal society - NO.
You don't need to be taking a chainsaw to your "self" in meditation, when done correctly it's about clarifying the accuracy of the way you see reality. It minimizes the distance between your maps and the territory, and teaches you that you can utilize multiple maps as necessary instead of becoming bogged down in a singular brittle reality tunnel.
It's 100% correct to say that the ego is necessary to function in society. It's even necessary for our survival in a state of nature. There are traditions that don't hold the ego and self to be a thing to be completely destroyed, but seen through so that it causes less suffering.
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09-03-2019, 09:19 AM
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#96
OP I just drove 3.5 hours for work. 2 of those hours were spent meditating with some theta wave chit in the background while driving these winding roads through the woods on this rainy morning.
I feel loose like I just got a massage and I'm 100% calm, collected and focused. How is your mental state this morning? I hope you aren't more than 1 coffee deep or anxious.
I feel loose like I just got a massage and I'm 100% calm, collected and focused. How is your mental state this morning? I hope you aren't more than 1 coffee deep or anxious.
09-03-2019, 09:35 AM
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#97
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Originally Posted By Silencespeaks⏩
Why were you seemingly primarily focused on identity, as opposed to other concerns like; happiness/fulfillment, social welfare, ethics, etc?Well the Eastern/ET perspective is the only one that has intellectually made sense to me after searching for truth for many years in other philosophical theories and religions.
From when I was a young teenager I’ve always searched for truth and true identity and I read a huge amount of books and articles etc to consider different theories, took philosophy classes, considered different religions, searched for truth in science and many other perspectives. So it was a search across many different perspectives and theories and philosophies.
None of them seemed intellectually correct and all encompassing to me until I came across Eastern philosophy/ET. Their perspective is the only one that seems to me to fully explain the truth and the self.
From when I was a young teenager I’ve always searched for truth and true identity and I read a huge amount of books and articles etc to consider different theories, took philosophy classes, considered different religions, searched for truth in science and many other perspectives. So it was a search across many different perspectives and theories and philosophies.
None of them seemed intellectually correct and all encompassing to me until I came across Eastern philosophy/ET. Their perspective is the only one that seems to me to fully explain the truth and the self.
So I was a not blank slate searching for meaning and Eastern philosophy/ET was not the only one to suggest a truth. I had considered and rejected MANY other philosophies/truths/perspectives previously during my search. Eastern/ET was just the only one to really make sense to me.
I didn't say you were a blank slate, what I said was that you were primed to have the experience that you did.You already intellectually believe it, so when you went into meditation you were already primed to interpret the experience in a particular way.
So, instead of interpreting depersonaliztion/derealizaiton as psychological pathology triggered by meditation, you interpreted as 'the truth'.
So I still believe it’s the truth. But I don’t like to intentionally keep going further into that direction because nobody else is really there so you’ll lose touch with other people and normal society and normal life if you go too deeply that way.
Normal people and normal society revolves around ego and a very superficial (false) perspective of the world and the self. It’s an illusion but that’s where everyone is. If you detach yourself and move too far toward truth you lose connection with the rest of society and you lose your normal superficial (false) self that you need to function in this society.
So do I think depersonalization/derealization is the ultimate truth - YES. I think that is what you experience in your final moments before death as your true identity and true understanding of reality.Do I think it’s a good direction to seek if you want to function as a normal happy person in normal society - NO.
That's a very different perspective to say Christian spirituality, where The Truth leads to fulfillment and the fruits of the spirit...Normal people and normal society revolves around ego and a very superficial (false) perspective of the world and the self. It’s an illusion but that’s where everyone is. If you detach yourself and move too far toward truth you lose connection with the rest of society and you lose your normal superficial (false) self that you need to function in this society.
So do I think depersonalization/derealization is the ultimate truth - YES. I think that is what you experience in your final moments before death as your true identity and true understanding of reality.Do I think it’s a good direction to seek if you want to function as a normal happy person in normal society - NO.
Galatians 5:22-23 New International Version (NIV)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
According to you, this is what the truth leads to....
"Symptoms of depersonalization include:
Feelings that you're an outside observer of your thoughts, feelings, your body or parts of your body — for example, as if you were floating in air above yourself
Feeling like a robot or that you're not in control of your speech or movements
The sense that your body, legs or arms appear distorted, enlarged or shrunken, or that your head is wrapped in cotton
Emotional or physical numbness of your senses or responses to the world around you
A sense that your memories lack emotion, and that they may or may not be your own memories
Symptoms of derealization include:
Feelings of being alienated from or unfamiliar with your surroundings — for example, like you're living in a movie or a dream
Feeling emotionally disconnected from people you care about, as if you were separated by a glass wall
Surroundings that appear distorted, blurry, colorless, two-dimensional or artificial, or a heightened awareness and clarity of your surroundings
Distortions in perception of time, such as recent events feeling like distant past
Distortions of distance and the size and shape of objects
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/syc-20352911
In constrast 'The Truth' according to Christian mystic and Christian spirituality is compatible with a 'mundane' life; where you work, have relationships with family and friends, have a partner, cook, clean, pay bills, etc.
Also, in Chrisitian mysticism and spirituality, encountering 'the Truth' (i.e. Christ) will lead to benevolence and compassion expanding in your heart.... What does depersonalization/derealization lead to?
If You Don't Like To Talk About Your Feelings, This Might Help...
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178926621
The Most Heartbreaking Thing That I've Learned About 'The Elite'.
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178536851
Bitcoin And 'The Elite' - Why Bitcoin Is Not Revolutionary
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=179820783
09-03-2019, 09:39 AM
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#98
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Originally Posted By arod204⏩
Serious suggestion... Maybe try contemplating humility and compassion?OP I just drove 3.5 hours for work. 2 of those hours were spent meditating with some theta wave chit in the background while driving these winding roads through the woods on this rainy morning.
I feel loose like I just got a massage and I'm 100% calm, collected and focused. How is your mental state this morning? I hope you aren't more than 1 coffee deep or anxious.
I feel loose like I just got a massage and I'm 100% calm, collected and focused. How is your mental state this morning? I hope you aren't more than 1 coffee deep or anxious.
Imagine if I was going through an anxious phase, and you're seemingly trying to 'rub it in my face' that you feel calm? (If that's what you were doing) Why?
Feeling fine, and I don't drink coffee.
If You Don't Like To Talk About Your Feelings, This Might Help...
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178926621
The Most Heartbreaking Thing That I've Learned About 'The Elite'.
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178536851
Bitcoin And 'The Elite' - Why Bitcoin Is Not Revolutionary
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=179820783
09-03-2019, 10:18 AM
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#99
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09-03-2019, 10:21 AM
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#100
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09-03-2019, 10:24 AM
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#101
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Originally Posted By Silencespeaks⏩
Best wishes to you and your practice - the idea that the ego/self is to be completely killed or denied is causing tons of harm even though it may be rooted in genuine attempts to help people out.Yeah that sort of hybrid approach is what I aim for now. Understanding on a deeper level that the conventional self is just an illusion created by ego and conventional reality is just an illusion created by society and the human need to structure and control the world. But on a more superficial daily level to just participate in all those things like a normal human bean instead of further detaching.
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09-03-2019, 10:46 AM
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#102
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09-03-2019, 10:49 AM
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#103
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09-03-2019, 10:52 AM
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#104
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09-03-2019, 12:05 PM
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#105
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Originally Posted By triception⏩
This. Deleted IG for this exact reason. Felt it was poisoning my mind with distractions and unwarranted desires. Would rep again.Yeah man I cannot stand driving these days when 80% of the time there's a significant delay at a red light because someone is staring at their phone instead of paying attention to their surroundings.
Mindfulness may be more important now than ever since we're constantly bombarded by technologies that hijack our attention.
Mindfulness may be more important now than ever since we're constantly bombarded by technologies that hijack our attention.
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09-03-2019, 05:01 PM
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#106
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I think many people aren't truly aware of what mindfulness actually is as preached. This is one definition of mindfulness your grandparents would recognise; the quality or state of being conscious or aware of something.
And this is the version that is actually pushed by the new age; a mental state achieved by focusing one's awareness on the present moment, while calmly acknowledging and accepting one's feelings, thoughts, and bodily sensations, used as a therapeutic technique.
Instead of bringing every thought into captivity, you're detaching from them completely.
"Mindfulness also involves acceptance, meaning that we pay attention to our thoughts and feelings without judging them—without believing, for instance, that there's a “right” or “wrong” way to think or feel in a given moment."
If that isn't aligned with the SJW agenda being pushed right now, i don't know what is?
And this is the version that is actually pushed by the new age; a mental state achieved by focusing one's awareness on the present moment, while calmly acknowledging and accepting one's feelings, thoughts, and bodily sensations, used as a therapeutic technique.
Instead of bringing every thought into captivity, you're detaching from them completely.
"Mindfulness also involves acceptance, meaning that we pay attention to our thoughts and feelings without judging them—without believing, for instance, that there's a “right” or “wrong” way to think or feel in a given moment."
If that isn't aligned with the SJW agenda being pushed right now, i don't know what is?
09-05-2019, 08:52 AM
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#107
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Originally Posted By Silencespeaks⏩
"You want to become a buddha? There's no need to become a buddha! Now is simply now. You are simply you. And tell me, since you want to leave the place where you are, where is it exactly you want to go?"Like this:
To study the Buddha Way is to study the self. To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be actualized by myriad things. When actualized by myriad things, your body and mind as well as the bodies and minds of others drop away. No trace of enlightenment remains, and this no-trace continues endlessly.
Dogen
To study the Buddha Way is to study the self. To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be actualized by myriad things. When actualized by myriad things, your body and mind as well as the bodies and minds of others drop away. No trace of enlightenment remains, and this no-trace continues endlessly.
Dogen
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