So when people don't trust the government funded system to teach their children, the government now forces them?

Healthcare is already free, it's called diet and exercise. No one cares when a drug addict overdoes, no one cares when someone else dies due to health issues.

Get ****ed

The "right" part is the part where a person has ajust claim, or entitlement,to said service.

A luxury spa massage is a service, but I have no just claim to use it, I can only use it if I pay for it.

Legal counsel is a service, but I do have a just claim to it, whether I can pay for it or not, or whether I have ever paid a single dime in tax or not, and this will be mandated and enforced by the legal system.

This is the same definition of right which you so kindly provided for us on the previous page:



So if someone has a just claim (ie. they are not considered to be doing something immoral, or illegal in the process) to use a service such as legal defense, then that is a right,as per your own definition.

It's obvious that you are not an intelligent person, but if you can't even stay consistent with your own argument for just one or two pages, then you really have no business being here.

You have the "right" to a court appointed public defender to defend yourself against the government in criminal cases. You do not have that right in civil cases.

People in custody/incarcerated usually receive "free" medical care. the custodian (county or state law officers, etc.) is responsible for payment of medical charges.

"

It's almost like rights are whatever the **** we want them to be, like I've been arguing all along

The fact that rights can have conditions and limitations has absolutely no bearing on the issue being discussed here.

No, actually, it's very relevant. So you blab about how you want a "right to healthcare". You said you want it to be like the right to representation. Thanks to me now you know how right to representation works: some people volunteered for the job and you have to wait as long as it takes for one of them to have the time to represent you.
So the right to healthcare just like the right to representation you demand is: some people volunteer for the job, and you have to wait as long as it takes for them to have the time to represent you.
But... that's how it already works! You can go to charity funded care, and get in line until they can serve you.
So... you are asking for what you already have? You don't even know what it is you have and what it is you are asking. And which part of that makes you not dumb?



Oh don't be so buttsore. I know, you had no idea what you were talking about, all you wanted was to cloak your parasite mentality with some legitimacy. Now all you are left with is the parasite mentality and even someone like you realizes you should be vaguely ashamed about it. But only vaguely, because once a parasite, always a parasite.

Q: Can the government force anyone to work for it?
A: NO.Forced labor is illegal. 18 U.S. Code § 1589.
Whoever knowingly provides or obtains the labor or services of a person--
(1) by threats of serious harm to, or physical restraint against, that person or another person;
(2) by means of any scheme, plan, or pattern intended to cause the person to believe that, if the person did not perform such labor or services, that person or another person would suffer serious harm or physical restraint; or
(3) by means of the abuse or threatened abuse of law or the legal process,
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

Q: So how does the government get public defenders?
A: there are 2 ways. Lawyers hired by public defender's office, a government-funded agency that provides legal representation to indigent defendants, and external lawyers who have agreed to represent indigent defendants, with appointment being either on a contractual basis, through which the lawyer accepts an agreed number of cases from the court for the term of the contract, or a case-by-case basis. These people arehirednotforced

Q: But what if they can't get enough lawyers to agree to be public defenders?
A: welcome to today's world, where the scarcity of public defenders is a very well known problem. If it was as easy as forcing people to do the job we wouldn't be having this problem, would we now?

Q: So what if there's nobody available to represent me?
A: there are 2 possibilities:
1) Request for a case dismissal or a mistrial. That's done routinely when the constitutionality of a trial comes into question. Examples are when evidence was obtained illegally (4th Amendment, search and seizures), when the trial would result in double jeopardy (5th Amendment), when the defendant was forced to self incriminate (5th Amendment), when the trial is taking too long (6th Amendment, speedy trial).
2) If the trial is still to proceed, you will do what millions of people are doing right now: sit in jail waiting for a public defender to become available. This can easily mean months.

Q: Wouldn't that violate the constitutional right to a speedy trial?
A: bingo! Now you understand the problem of calling "right" something that can only be afforded by taking away another "right".

Q: So the right to representation is not a good example of being entitled to other people's work?
A: it would be if things worked the way isingmodel thought it worked. The way it actually works, no.

Q: So isingmodel calls himself an expert but doesn't know any of these things?
A: clearly the word "expert" doesn't mean what he thinks it means.

Q: How is he going to react to being shown to be completely wrong and ignorant about something he thought he was an expert of?
A: he's going to throw a tantrum like a 5 year old, stomp his feet, scream and call me names. It's ok, on my way home from work I bought a box of crayons, he can take them to his safe space until he's over his tantrum.

"Gideon was charged with breaking and entering with the intent to commit a misdemeanor, which is a felony under Florida law. At trial, Gideon appeared in court without an attorney. In open court, he asked the judge to appoint counsel for him because he could not afford an attorney. The trial judge denied Gideon’s request because Florida law only permitted appointment of counsel for poor defendants charged with capital offenses."

Way to sideskirt the fact that you can't keep up with your own definitions in an argument, with more meaningless vomit.

You are getting more triggered by the minute. It's really entertaining to watch. Soon enough you are going to howl at the moon





You really are profoundly ignorant of pretty much everything you comment on. Here's yet another "here's how things actually work in real life" lesson: charity hospitals cannot turn you away. At all. You will sit down with everyone else, and wait like everyone else, and when it's your turn you will be seen and taken care of. I know, astonishing, I know, go howl at the moon a little more.



I am still waiting for you to explain why you have a "just claim" to free healthcare. And no, "because free legal representation" is not an argument. I have a right to a free Ferrari because "free legal representation? Don't be retarded.

So it's taken you a full 10 or so posts to finally contend with the fact that you backtracked on your own definition of right,

I didn't. Nice try tho.



So is food. So we should make it a free public service. Amidoinitrite?



Actually I vote, so what I think about it counts just fine, thank you for not understanding the concept of democracy. So your argument boils down to "I want free stuff to be made into a law because I want it". Just like I thought from the very beginning. Not even original frankly.
You know, slavery was law too, at some point. Clearly if we make the violation of a right into a law it stops being a violation of a right, according to your infantile understanding of rights.



Gawd you have the reading comprehension skills of my cat. Seriously. I won't even bother repeating myself for the 100th time. You are just triggered because your parasite mentality has been called out. I understand it, I am sure you truly believe you should help yourself to other people's money. Again, not really original thinking, moochers have existed since the beginning of humanity.

Q: Can the government force anyone to work for it?
A: NO.Forced labor is illegal. 18 U.S. Code § 1589.
Whoever knowingly provides or obtains the labor or services of a person--
(1) by threats of serious harm to, or physical restraint against, that person or another person;
(2) by means of any scheme, plan, or pattern intended to cause the person to believe that, if the person did not perform such labor or services, that person or another person would suffer serious harm or physical restraint; or
(3) by means of the abuse or threatened abuse of law or the legal process,
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

Q: So how does the government get public defenders?
A: there are 2 ways. Lawyers hired by public defender's office, a government-funded agency that provides legal representation to indigent defendants, and external lawyers who have agreed to represent indigent defendants, with appointment being either on a contractual basis, through which the lawyer accepts an agreed number of cases from the court for the term of the contract, or a case-by-case basis. These people arehirednotforced

Q: But what if they can't get enough lawyers to agree to be public defenders?
A: welcome to today's world, where the scarcity of public defenders is a very well known problem. If it was as easy as forcing people to do the job we wouldn't be having this problem, would we now?

Q: So what if there's nobody available to represent me?
A: there are 2 possibilities:
1) Request for a case dismissal or a mistrial. That's done routinely when the constitutionality of a trial comes into question. Examples are when evidence was obtained illegally (4th Amendment, search and seizures), when the trial would result in double jeopardy (5th Amendment), when the defendant was forced to self incriminate (5th Amendment), when the trial is taking too long (6th Amendment, speedy trial).
2) If the trial is still to proceed, you will do what millions of people are doing right now: sit in jail waiting for a public defender to become available. This can easily mean months.

Q: Wouldn't that violate the constitutional right to a speedy trial?
A: bingo! Now you understand the problem of calling "right" something that can only be afforded by taking away another "right".

Q: So the right to representation is not a good example of being entitled to other people's work?
A: it would be if things worked the way isingmodel thought it worked. The way it actually works, no.

Q: So isingmodel calls himself an expert but doesn't know any of these things?
A: clearly the word "expert" doesn't mean what he thinks it means.

Q: How is he going to react to being shown to be completely wrong and ignorant about something he thought he was an expert of?
A: he's going to throw a tantrum like a 5 year old, stomp his feet, scream and call me names. It's ok, on my way home from work I bought a box of crayons, he can take them to his safe space until he's over his tantrum.

fuking Rekt

sy in here wrecking these clowns lulz, good chit girl

a live look at you two idiots congratulating each other for being stupid

You a public defender, or a private attorney?

private brah!

but if i was in a small county without a public defender, or the public defender got sick or whatever, the court would unilaterally, involuntarily appoint a private attorney from the county to defend a defendant if he/she couldnt afford one. the county would pay that appointed attorney the base fee that a public defender would earn for the work. the defendant would pay $0

it's that simple

the right to have an attorney defend you - even if you cant afford one - is enshrined right in the 6th amendment. i dont know why sy keeps arguing about it.

Dictionary definition of "right": something to which one has a just claim (Merriam Webster)

the worst part is that it's a right by her own definition of right which she provided for us here:



is she trying to now argue that peopledon'thave a "just claim" to legal counsel? what is her basis for that argument, given that it is enshrined in the highest law of the land and a central tenet of our legal system?

or did she just forget the definition that she herself cited a few pages back, due to her mental deficiencies?

sy is a big fat mess

You being a piece of **** doesn't mean everyone is, stop presuming to speak for others

TIL wanting to raise your own children, the way you want, makes you a piece of chit.

Public schools are already a complete failure, and your answer to that is to force parents who can afford real education for their child to send them to public schools?

tis she trying to now argue that peopledon'thave a "just claim" to legal counsel? what is her basis for that argument, given that it is enshrined in the highest law of the land and a central tenet of our legal system?

she's definitely not capable of admitting she was wrong. there's just no way.

Again, reading comprehension of a table lamp.
I already answered that, try to keep up, mkay?

Q: So the right to representation is not a good example of being entitled to other people's work?
A: it would be if things worked the way isingmodel thought it worked. The way it actually works, no.




Still waiting to hear what makes your claim to free healthcare a "just claim". No, "cuz I want me free stuff" is not a "just claim".

no you derp

my point is that if you force parents who can afford [private] education (lol at saying that only rich people get a real education) to send their kids to public schools, including all the rich corrupt politicians in washington, then you better believe they'd work hard to improve those public schools and make them great again

they'd have to MAGA the schools bro

and then everyone would get a "real" education - not just the wealthy

dont you get it?

Again, reading comprehension of a table lamp.
I already answered that, try to keep up, mkay?

Q: So the right to representation is not a good example of being entitled to other people's work?
A: it would be if things worked the way isingmodel thought it worked. The way it actually works, no.




Still waiting to hear what makes your claim to free healthcare a "just claim". No, "cuz I want me free stuff" is not a "just claim".

what is this? sy - this isnt even a response. i have no idea what youre talking about. do you agree that defendants have a right to legal counsel, regardless of whether or not they can afford it? thats what we're talking about here. if not, is it because you dont feel that right isjust?

Yawn, as I said, I already answered that.

So what does "right to representation mean"? Does it mean you just show up one day at a lawyer's office and yell "You must represent me! For free! Because it's my right!" No. Feel free to try it, but I can tell you right now, no. But I do know that's what you intend with "right to health". You want to just walk into a doctor's office and expect to be treated without paying. And the answer is, again, no.




LOL so that's your answer to "why is it a just claim"? Because you say you want free chit? As I said, you are a parasite. Change my mind.



You mean they are afforded certain public services.




You still don't understand how right to legal representation works, do you? See above, I already explained it to you. Also, since you say you want "free healthcare just like free legal representation", you still haven't answered this question I asked a while ago:

So you blab about how you want a "right to healthcare". You said you want it to be like the right to representation. Thanks to me now you know how right to representation works: some people volunteered for the job and you have to wait as long as it takes for one of them to have the time to represent you.
So the right to healthcare just like the right to representation you demand is: some people volunteer for the job, and you have to wait as long as it takes for them to have the time to treat you.
But... that's how it already works! You can go to charity funded care, and get in line until they can serve you.
So... you are asking for what you already have? You don't even know what it is you have and what it is you are asking. And which part of that makes you not dumb?

I love it how all I have to do is quote what I already said, makes it really easy. And fun.