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Forum » Practicing medicine now, I see just how immune doctors are from AI/automation (srs)
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Thread: Practicing medicine now, I see just how immune doctors are from AI/automation (srs)

post 1596553561 01-28-2020, 09:56 AM
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#91
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Originally Posted By AltarOfPlagues⏩
yes the structure of medical and scientific revolutions have always revolved around liability.

to hold your hand: the same people get sued who get sued now. medical practitioners, insurance providers, and in the future, programmers. everyone gets sued.

you have an extreme meatbag bias

do you find most doctors are arrogant pricks or is it just that those are the ones who do all the talking?
So you're not actually replacing anyone, just putting in another tool. Gotcha.
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post 1596553641 01-28-2020, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted By Hardlifter9⏩
So you're not actually replacing anyone, just putting in another tool. Gotcha.
you are just a collection of tools. in the future a fat guy who needs blood thinners wont need to talk to a guy who can stitch up wounds.

this is a good thing.
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post 1596553761 01-28-2020, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted By Hardlifter9⏩
Truth is, the *real* patients have simultaneous multi-organ disease (in the clinic or in the hospital), have 2 dozen issues and are on 30 medications at once.
Just end it at that point, srs. 200 years ago those people would have died anyways. At some point it's time to go or accelerate the process a bit with exit like we do here in switzerland.
post 1596553791 01-28-2020, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted By AltarOfPlagues⏩
you are just a collection of tools. in the future a fat guy who needs blood thinners wont need to talk to a guy who can stitch up wounds.

this is a good thing.
Yup we should all be behind improving efficiency and reducing wasted effort


Pretty sure OP just wanted an excuse to talk about being a doctor tho. We get it OP, you do medicine
post 1596553841 01-28-2020, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted By ExiledFromFit⏩
Just end it at that point, srs. 200 years ago those people would have died anyways. At some point it's time to go or accelerate the process a bit with exit like we do here in switzerland.
in america we treat our own family members worse than we do our dogs by insisting they remain alive at almost any cost and with little to no regard to quality of life
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post 1596554131 01-28-2020, 10:04 AM
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I agree that doctor will not be replaced by ai but I think that ai will be a huge help in biotech drug discovery research
post 1596554161 01-28-2020, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted By ExiledFromFit⏩
Just end it at that point, srs. 200 years ago those people would have died anyways. At some point it's time to go or accelerate the process a bit with exit like we do here in switzerland.
Complex bioethical discussion. Some of these patients don't necessarily have a prognosis of <1 year and to respect patient autonomy we have to manage them. We also drag sick patients along for years pretty often.
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post 1596554471 01-28-2020, 10:09 AM
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I like how people that aren’t in the field are trying to pretend like they know what AI will be able to do.

If you think that engineers can’t break down what anyone does into a series of smalls steps with accompanying requirements and come up with a solution that’s more effective then humans then I don’t know what to tell you. Engineers do it for rockets, spacecraft, planes, cars, augmented senses and artificial limbs.

Doctor roles won’t be the first few jobs replaced by AI systems, but almost all jobs will be taken over eventually. Unless we all kill each other before then trying to militarize some form of AI.

Ban engineers
post 1596554811 01-28-2020, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted By NVious⏩
AI already figured out chess and poker.

Problem is unless you understand very specific innovation concepts like punctuated equilibrium and non-linearity, you think AI progresses like:

2-4-6-8

In reality it's like:

1-2-4-6-8-12-24-48-96-300-600-3000-9000-100,000

Just 60 years ago there were computers weaker than the thing the average person pays for 10-20 hours of labor (smartphone) that were the size of a room. Innovation is only going to get crazier once quantum computers are a thing.

There's no reason to worry because if you are a doctor you have proven yourself to be high IQ and industrious, but no one is safe in the least.
STRONG This op and other idjits in thread have no real knowledge or understanding of AI/ML.

I use it daily for cybersec for user behavior analytics and I'm developing my own threat models in python.
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post 1596554821 01-28-2020, 10:14 AM
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no computer can replace human judgment. just lmao at the cucked CS/IT bras who have no idea
post 1596555641 01-28-2020, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted By r0bo⏩
no computer can replace human judgment. just lmao at the cucked CS/IT bras who have no idea
It already has, the best chess player in the world gets raped by AI, like an excellent result is a draw.

Same thing with poker which is even more complex than chess.
post 1596556051 01-28-2020, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted By Hardlifter9⏩
So then implement it. There's a difference between lab experiments and real life market utility. What you're talking about goes beyond the scope of our generation.

FYI, why ignore my critical liability question? Who gets sued? Until you can answer that and make legal and logistic sense, it's a moot point.
I wouldn't say beyond the scope of our generation.. the algorithms are there you need data scientist with enough knowledge in medicine to effectively use the correct data to solve specific issues. I think there's a lack of bioinformaticians currently and this is why we aren't seeing enough progress in the applications of ai in the medical field
post 1596556101 01-28-2020, 10:31 AM
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Anyone have any idea why women are starting to become the majority of medical students?
post 1596556191 01-28-2020, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted By NVious⏩
It already has, the best chess player in the world gets raped by AI, like an excellent result is a draw.

Same thing with poker which is even more complex than chess.
medicine = poker. got it.
post 1596556321 01-28-2020, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted By r0bo⏩
medicine = poker. got it.
AI stops advancing with poker. got it.
post 1596556611 01-28-2020, 10:36 AM
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We like to believe that humans have some intangible ability to innovate or imagine or whatever you want to call it, bestowed upon us by our consciousness. I'm not so sure -- feed the same amount data into software and I don't see why AI wouldn't be able to achieve the same thing
post 1596556861 01-28-2020, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted By Destor⏩
We like to believe that humans have some intangible ability to innovate or imagine or whatever you want to call it, bestowed upon us by our consciousness. I'm not so sure -- feed the same amount data into software and I don't see why AI wouldn't be able to achieve the same thing
They recently had a situation where they filed patents that an AI discovered in the name of the AI lol.
post 1596557031 01-28-2020, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted By anonkunbrah⏩
Anyone have any idea why women are starting to become the majority of medical students?
Because it's easy and they can flex by mentioning it. You just gotta diligently memorize in medicine.
I'm not saying the profession of a medical doctor is easy at all, just the studying in school.
post 1596557381 01-28-2020, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted By ExiledFromFit⏩
Because it's easy and they can flex by mentioning it. You just gotta diligently memorize in medicine.
I'm not saying the profession of a medical doctor is easy at all, just the studying in school.
That's an oversimplification you don't just memorize as a doctor you actually have to problem solve with people that have specific conditions or multiple conditions and figure out the proper treatment plan
post 1596557741 01-28-2020, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted By Hardlifter9⏩
No, because it's an art. It's grey area. And there is no right answer. Algorithmic approaches only work when it's A or B.
That's where you hit a roadblock though with your logic though. "human" creativity and therefore art can be theoretically reproduced/improved upon with AI.

We're in the infancy of the AI boom, just barely breaking the surface.


Then again, once AI can be entirely creative, all jobs will be replaceable soon after. Doctors will be some of the last to go. I'm guessing in the next few decades AI will be used to pre-screen though since it can do plenty of things doctors cant at a much faster rate
Originally Posted By Destor⏩
We like to believe that humans have some intangible ability to innovate or imagine or whatever you want to call it, bestowed upon us by our consciousness. I'm not so sure -- feed the same amount data into software and I don't see why AI wouldn't be able to achieve the same thing
oversimplifying it a lot but basically this. Now imagine if you feed the AI more data on an order of magnitude. 10x as much. 100x as much. All the data that exists.
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post 1596557761 01-28-2020, 10:50 AM
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It is my expert opinion that everyone has over estimated the use of AI. Self driving trucks probably won't be used for another 20-30 years. Not the 5 like some say. They can barely get the self checkouts at walmart to work without saying "please remove the last bagged item" every 2 minutes.

If anything in medicine gets automated it will be pharmacists. But then again that's what lobbyists and the huge barrier to entry prevents anyways.




-bulldog
post 1596558101 01-28-2020, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted By GerbilFarmer⏩
BOOM. AI is needed at this point. It would cure Cancer, heart diesease, and medical errors.

Doctors now are like community college drop outs
You cant cure cancer and you cant cure heat disease you dumb kunt. What heart disease are you referring to?
post 1596558141 01-28-2020, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted By Exiled93⏩
It is my expert opinion that everyone has over estimated the use of AI. Self driving trucks probably won't be used for another 20-30 years. Not the 5 like some say. They can barely get the self checkouts at walmart to work without saying "please remove the last bagged item" every 2 minutes.

If anything in medicine gets automated it will be pharmacists. But then again that's what lobbyists and the huge barrier to entry prevents anyways.




-bulldog
God I ****ing hate that last bagged item ****

Also CS brah above that is paradimgshift bro can I please emailed you this semester with help in my programming class I am so ****ed dude haven't programmed in 2 years now I'm in an advanced c++ class can I please email you throughout the semester with help may God bless your soul please help me

@bartosh
post 1596558801 01-28-2020, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted By Exiled93⏩
It is my expert opinion that everyone has over estimated the use of AI. Self driving trucks probably won't be used for another 20-30 years. Not the 5 like some say.They can barely get the self checkouts at walmart to work without saying "please remove the last bagged item" every 2 minutes.

If anything in medicine gets automated it will be pharmacists. But then again that's what lobbyists and the huge barrier to entry prevents anyways.




-bulldog
badly written non-ai software doesn't mean ai software isn't capable lmao. 5-10 years is happening for self driving cars with the only roadblock being legislation at this point
Originally Posted By 5tfihsmgidarap⏩
God I ****ing hate that last bagged item ****

Also CS brah above that is paradimgshift bro can I please emailed you this semester with help in my programming class I am so ****ed dude haven't programmed in 2 years now I'm in an advanced c++ class can I please email you throughout the semester with help may God bless your soul please help me

@bartosh
feel free to pm me for my email, i'll see what i can do
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post 1596559141 01-28-2020, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted By ExiledFromFit⏩
Because it's easy and they can flex by mentioning it. You just gotta diligently memorize in medicine.
I'm not saying the profession of a medical doctor is easy at all, just the studying in school.
Youre nuts.

You memorise in school for the exam like crazy, but the actual textbook scenario is like 10% in actual practice in day to day medicine.
You do realise that the guidelines that are created by humans that doctors follow to treat your ‘chest infection’ or ‘blood clot’ are just guidelines right? Guidelines are not rigid nor are they followed in that way. Thats part of the grey zone opie is alluding to partly.
You
post 1596559281 01-28-2020, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted By 5tfihsmgidarap⏩
That's an oversimplification you don't just memorize as a doctor you actually have to problem solve with people that have specific conditions or multiple conditions and figure out the proper treatment plan
Brainlet tier problem solving.
post 1596559491 01-28-2020, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted By ExiledFromFit⏩
Brainlet tier problem solving.
Lmao
post 1596560311 01-28-2020, 11:24 AM
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You seem so phucking insecure about AI taking your job in the future. Just STFU you cuck and do your job. Pussy.
Sorry for my english.

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post 1596561291 01-28-2020, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted By NVious⏩
It already has, the best chess player in the world gets raped by AI, like an excellent result is a draw.

Same thing with poker which is even more complex than chess.
It beat the best chess engine, which would never lose to the top human, every single game over 1000 games. It was only close when the time controls was 30/1 for stockfish. It's also master go and was able to map proteins.
This guys whole arguement is show me a NN that can read an EKG.. that would be childsplay. Theres just no capital incentives for that yet. Show me a human who can beat Stockfish or someone who can map protein structures based on its genetic sequence or someone who can beat Lee Sedol at Go...
post 1596562591 01-28-2020, 11:58 AM
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This basically boils down to the hard problem of consciousness and why some think ai wont pose a threat

Or.. We wont ever fully replicate consciousness
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