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Forum » Practicing medicine now, I see just how immune doctors are from AI/automation (srs)
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Thread: Practicing medicine now, I see just how immune doctors are from AI/automation (srs)

post 1596708581 01-30-2020, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted By Hardlifter9⏩
? Even if you had your supergod AI here today, market acceptance would take decades.
Exactly. And these guys arent even close to describing the complexity of the brain

I think were seeing lots of inferiority complexes, self-hate and personal vendettas itt. How any human is a proponent for "self-driving" cars or "doctor robots" is simply a byproduct of their own inadequacy. That idea is straight up disgusting
post 1596708661 01-30-2020, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted By TappingTheZen⏩
I don't really get this self driving car argument others are peddling... Googles's self driving car did 1 + million miles on public roads without a single accident using a machine learning algorithm, and this was years ago. Of course in the infancy in the technology they are going to have some accidents, but they are still already better drivers and make better decisions than most people.

It's had something like 30 minor accidents, and one where it was at fault in 8+ million miles logged. Accidents would go down massively if all cars were self driving, not just because they're better but also because they can have data fed to each other about positions of other cars near them. Imagine if every car was self driving, it wouldn't even need to see, each car would be feeding cars in it's vicinity data about it's position, speed, everything you can think of. In fact, if all cars were self driving there's a good chance accidents would nearly be eliminated entirely, or at least in accident situations the cars can crunch numbers in milliseconds and take the best course of action.. one of the most powerful things about machines is that they can read the data, and formulate the optimal course of action in milliseconds... something humans simply can't do.

Make nearly any human drive a million miles and they will have at least one accident where they are at fault. (data that we have shows on average humans cause crashes 4.2x per million miles)
So are you going to outlaw driving by humans?
If not, then any accidents caused by self driving cars are human error + X. So you get unnecessary deaths due to X which could have been prevented if you didn't have self driving cars.

You also ignore the liability factor. We can take a drunk driver into court and put him in jail. The level of justice isn't the same with taking a company owner to court. Hence the very slow rate of market acceptance.
Originally Posted By Scarrdbutsmartr⏩
It isnt imminent its already here..I believe it was Google that claimed 70% of all human interactions would be handled by AI bots (specifically chat bots) by 2019. The last stat I heard was that we hit 83% in December..

People have no clue when they are engaging with an AI fueled bot anymore..The company I work for has had AI/Machine learning in place for about three years now. I engage with AI Ops daily making business decisions and improving customer service. I bet not a single one of my internal customers realizes they are impacted by continuous improvement from AI...

You can literally go on-line and buy AI in a "white box" at this point (depending on your industry).
And every customer service interaction has me pulling my hair out trying to get to an actual person. It took 20 minutes to solve an issue with an automated machine for a call that should have been solved within 1 minute tops.

Hence it's laughable to think AI is going to treat even the simplest cough or cold anytime soon. It would take half an hour to input symptoms into a computer (unless you have a humanoid robot super AI) for a visit that would take me 2 mins.
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post 1596708791 01-30-2020, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted By AltarOfPlagues⏩
you are case in point why the medical community would rather people die than adopt a new tool for early cancer screening because they dont understand it.
Why don't you actually answer the question I asked in bold? You fully ignore it because you don't have an answer.
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post 1596708911 01-30-2020, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted By AltarOfPlagues⏩
its neat to save lives with your hands and its even neater to prevent the need for surgery because you were open minded to new technologies.


how much push back did semmelweiss get when he advised his colleagues to wash their hands after handling cadavers?


dogma must be proportional to money spent on bona fides
What are you on about? New technology preventing need for surgery. Yeah sure, why would anyone disagree or not want that. How is it related to AI/ automation though?

LOL at comparing this situation to Semmelweiss's situation and all that. Making it sound like some kind of a revolution that the pro-OP folks ITT are resisting. The idea iirc was that this profession will be near impossible to substitute because of the types of complexities involved. There is nothing concrete on the ground to suggest otherwise right now, not in the foreseeable future too.
post 1596709061 01-30-2020, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted By Hardlifter9⏩
Why don't you actually answer the question I asked in bold? You fully ignore it because you don't have an answer.
no i dunno what you're asking. you seem to complain a lot about people with minor issues coming in to see a doctor when you have a lot of patients with complex issues.

theoretically if i know my symptoms and i can sign some waver and put them into a kiosk and get my flexiril scrip, why isnt that better than coming to see you, since my organs arent failing. my medical history is in some theoretical system and i punch in my symptoms.


my strategy for arguing is this:

chose the simplest thing you do on a daily basis. and now imagine its automated by a machine with more data than your brain could ever hold.
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post 1596709101 01-30-2020, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted By JoshLV⏩
No doctor but isn’t what y’all do an algorithm exactly?
Rash? Yes
Fever? No
Itch? Yes
Puss? Yes
Etc
Add in the fact of having access to all the CURRENT literature. Keep in mind its database will be continually uploading and storing new studies and trials, where as you graduated med school in 2020 and will be outdated in 2050, that new medical kiosk will have access to all of it.
post 1596709131 01-30-2020, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted By Evlve⏩
Quoted for truth.

The biases and overconfidence that make doctors/surgeons ITT so sure they won’t be replaced are the very reasons why humans are so easily replaced professionally
The people that claim they cant be replaced dont understand AI at all. Its clear from their comments about data sources in this thread. The common perception that I've seen in this thread is that good data makes for intelligent action. That isnt AI...thats actually the exact OPPOSITE of AI...

AI wants ALL of the data including what people might think is "bad data". The entire point is that AI looks at the data across verticals and then has the ability to look at multiple data stores, learn patterns that required hundreds/millions of hours to find if humans were involved.....and when it identifies predictability patterns it can automate a response....

This is the hubris which causes people to think they cant be replaced..The idea that you have an intuition and therefore you cant be replaced is exactly WHY you will be replaced. Their hunch is a data pattern..It isnt mystical. The more a job relies on hunches the sooner it will be automated.
post 1596709161 01-30-2020, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted By BloodFireDeath⏩
What are you on about? New technology preventing need for surgery. Yeah sure, why would anyone disagree or not want that. How is it related to AI/ automation though?

LOL at comparing this situation to Semmelweiss's situation and all that. Making it sound like some kind of a revolution that the pro-OP folks ITT are resisting. The idea iirc was that this profession will be near impossible to substitute because of the types of complexities involved. There is nothing concrete on the ground to suggest otherwise right now, not in the foreseeable future too.
you're a brainlet and ill have to triage comments and address the most salient first, im sorry.
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post 1596709201 01-30-2020, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted By propreffered7⏩
Exactly. And these guys arent even close to describing the complexity of the brain

I think were seeing lots of inferiority complexes, self-hate and personal vendettas itt. How any human is a proponent for "self-driving" cars or "doctor robots" is simply a byproduct of their own inadequacy. That idea is straight up disgusting
Right.

So if you have foresight to see computers will take over, it's bEcAuSe yOu hAtE yOuRsElF.

Hmm, let's look at real world examples.

Computers have been around how long now?

And how many household things now have computers?

Fridge? Check. Phone? Check. Stove? Check, etc etc.

You have to be insanely deluded to think that trend will just stop because the reality makes you uncomfortable.
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At least it will thunderstorm tonight, and we know how they feel about water. :)
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post 1596709611 01-30-2020, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted By Hardlifter9⏩
And every customer service interaction has me pulling my hair out trying to get to an actual person. It took 20 minutes to solve an issue with an automated machine for a call that should have been solved within 1 minute tops.

Hence it's laughable to think AI is going to treat even the simplest cough or cold anytime soon. It would take half an hour to input symptoms into a computer (unless you have a humanoid robot super AI) for a visit that would take me 2 mins.
With all due respect you dont know what you are talking about and you are talking to someone that does....You are referencing IVR (Interactive Voice Routing). There is almost no intelligence behind IVR and its exactly why it drives everyone insane..IVR has nothing to do with AI and has been in place for 15 years or more. Can AI fuel IVR and improve it, Yes. To say you have frustrations with IVR shows a complete lack of understanding of how AI will improve or replace IVR...

And lets be clear IVR is a technology that will be entirely replaced with the next generation...Who wants to actually call anyone to make a move/add/change - NO ONE..hence your comments above. Chat bots will completely replace IVR or call centers for the next generation.
post 1596709791 01-30-2020, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted By AltarOfPlagues⏩
no i dunno what you're asking. you seem to complain a lot about people with minor issues coming in to see a doctor when you have a lot of patients with complex issues.

theoretically if i know my symptoms and i can sign some waver and put them into a kiosk and get my flexiril scrip, why isnt that better than coming to see you, since my organs arent failing. my medical history is in some theoretical system and i punch in my symptoms.


my strategy for arguing is this:

chose the simplest thing you do on a daily basis. and now imagine its automated by a machine with more data than your brain could ever hold.
Lol dude we already have that. It's called tablets and we give them to patients to answer questionnaires while they wait. Half the time they input a bunch of nonsense and I spend unnecessary time going through and deleting it and other half the time they can't even read or write or explain their issues properly. Or they answer "yes" to everything. Some 50 year old guy who had some mild chest discomfort last week answers "yes" to chest pain in your kiosk and now gets a full cardiac workup because the robot thought he could be having a heart attack even though he has a cold.

It's astounding how you view the world. Not everyone is capable of answering medical questions, many can barely read, others would lol @ the idea of even touching a computer. And that includes young people.
Your entire model, just for the simple medical issues, still requires a trained human to input everything. The entire process is now 20x slower.

And I'm not complaining about minor issues. They involve intellectual challenge even though your doctor doesn't verbalize it because they processed everything in seconds while talking to you. We rule out sinister disease when someone comes in with a cough or rash every time.
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post 1596710081 01-30-2020, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted By Hardlifter9⏩
Lol dude we already have that. It's called tablets and we give them to patients to answer questionnaires while they wait. Half the time they input a bunch of nonsense and I spend unnecessary time going through and deleting it and other half the time they can't even read or write or explain their issues properly. Or they answer "yes" to everything. Some 50 year old guy who had some mild chest discomfort last week answers "yes" to chest pain in your kiosk and now gets a full cardiac workup because the robot thought he could be having a heart attack even though he has a cold.

It's astounding how you view the world. Not everyone is capable of answering medical questions, many can barely read, others would lol @ the idea of even touching a computer. And that includes young people.
Your entire model, just for the simple medical issues, still requires a trained human to input everything. The entire process is now 20x slower.

And I'm not complaining about minor issues. They involve intellectual challenge even though your doctor doesn't verbalize it because they processed everything in seconds while talking to you. We rule out sinister disease when someone comes in with a cough or rash every time.
i guess youre right we will need infallible human doctors (who "get a vibe") forever and all technology introduced into medicine should have stopped a few years ago.
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post 1596710151 01-30-2020, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted By Scarrdbutsmartr⏩
The people that claim they cant be replaced dont understand AI at all. Its clear from their comments about data sources in this thread. The common perception that I've seen in this thread is that good data makes for intelligent action. That isnt AI...thats actually the exact OPPOSITE of AI...

AI wants ALL of the data including what people mike think is "bad data". The entire point is that AI looks at the data across verticals and then has the ability to look at multiple data stores, learn patterns that required hundreds/millions of hours to find if humans were involved.....and when it identifies predictability patterns it can automate a response....

This is the hubris which causes people to think they cant be replaced..The idea that you have an intuition and therefore you cant be replaced is exactly WHY you will be replaced. Their hunch is a data pattern..It isnt mystical. The more a job relies on hunches the sooner it will be automated.
Uhh so why is the creator of the supercomputer most closely resembling the brain. Notice how i said "most closely resembling the complexity of the brain" as weve introduced multiple things throughout the thread that are more complex than data/ algorithms/ patters. There are supercomputers more powerful but they are specifically designed to be more powerful however they dont approach the malleability/ efficiency/ dexterity of the brain. Can the "data" point to itself and say "i am that"? I mean thats just the very, very tip of even recognizing oneself as conscious. The spinnaker creator said:
Even with a million processors, we can only approach 1 percent of the scale of the human brain, and that’s with a lot of simplifying assumptions
More:
An advanced machine such as SpiNNaker can still manage only a fraction of the communication performed by a human brain, and supercomputers have a long way to go before they can think for themselves, Furber wrote in the email.
Btw, none of the advancements in "computing" even matter if we dont know information about our own brain. I have posted hundreds of problems still unknown about our consciousness yet.. Supposedly we can fully replicate it without knowing how it works lol

Nobody itt is suggesting these computers cant be complex, were suggesting they are nowhere near the complexity of the brain
post 1596710211 01-30-2020, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted By Hardlifter9⏩
Lol dude we already have that. It's called tablets and we give them to patients to answer questionnaires while they wait. Half the time they input a bunch of nonsense and I spend unnecessary time going through and deleting it and other half the time they can't even read or write or explain their issues properly. Or they answer "yes" to everything. Some 50 year old guy who had some mild chest discomfort last week answers "yes" to chest pain in your kiosk and now gets a full cardiac workup because the robot thought he could be having a heart attack even though he has a cold.

It's astounding how you view the world. Not everyone is capable of answering medical questions, many can barely read, others would lol @ the idea of even touching a computer. And that includes young people.
Your entire model, just for the simple medical issues, still requires a trained human to input everything. The entire process is now 20x slower.

And I'm not complaining about minor issues. They involve intellectual challenge even though your doctor doesn't verbalize it because they processed everything in seconds while talking to you. We rule out sinister disease when someone comes in with a cough or rash every time.
You dont need a kiosk or to gather data..The data stores already exist...All it requires is access to the data and layering AI on top as a first phase. This is where 80% of the value is found...If you want to improve your data stores and find additional logic, all you have to do is increase your data stores with additional information...

Thats the beauty of AI - The data almost always exist across numerous data stores..You just have to mine it. Want more data, expand the data store.

AI will explode because the data exist..All it takes is for someone to write the code to mine the data for relevant data and then build in automation. Its just time to roll it out to all industries and continue to improve it.
post 1596710221 01-30-2020, 11:54 AM
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imagine not using a machine learning algorithm for early cancer screening because you are confused about who the patient is gonna sue

i think thats part of the hippocratic oath.
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post 1596710441 01-30-2020, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted By MBisonSon⏩
Right.

So if you have foresight to see computers will take over, it's bEcAuSe yOu hAtE yOuRsElF.

Hmm, let's look at real world examples.

Computers have been around how long now?

And how many household things now have computers?

Fridge? Check. Phone? Check. Stove? Check, etc etc.

You have to be insanely deluded to think that trend will just stop because the reality makes you uncomfortable.
As useless gimmicks sure.
Originally Posted By AltarOfPlagues⏩
you're a brainlet and ill have to triage comments and address the most salient first, im sorry.
You sound extremely butthurt, doctor **** your mom or something?
post 1596710611 01-30-2020, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted By propreffered7⏩
Uhh so why is the creator of the supercomputer most closely resembling the brain. Notice how i said "most closely resembling the complexity of the brain" as weve introduced multiple things throughout the thread that are more complex than data/ algorithms/ patters. There are supercomputers more powerful but they are specifically designed to be more powerful however they dont approach the malleability/ efficiency/ dexterity of the brain. Can the "data" point to itself and say "i am that"? I mean thats just the very, very tip of even recognizing oneself as conscious. The spinnaker creator said:



More:



Btw, none of the advancements in "computing" even matter if we dont know information about our own brain. I have posted hundreds of problems still unknown about our consciousness yet.. Supposedly we can fully replicate it without knowing how it works lol
I have no clue what you are talking about from a technical perspective. Current super computers can conduct a single one and zero based decision at a time. Quantum computers can do dozens, thousands, millions at a time based upon future growth models. If you point a machine that can conduct thousands of decisions a minute, give it data, let it watch patterns and then make decisions...You can do things that would take thousands/millions of years in just a few seconds.

Googles Quantum computer just figured out a math equation in just over 200 second...The same equation that IBMs engineers state that their top super computer would have taken 169 days (if memory serves me right) to figure out.

The reason why the brain is superior to a computer is that the brain can make several decisions at once. It can think and adjust thousands of parameters a minute and some of those decisions are automated. Quantum computing throws the limitations of a computer out the window...as in 100% of the supremacy of the human brain out the window.

We are talking hardware designs that are already in place. It may be "designed around a human brain" - I have no idea what that means. I've seen real life quantum computers and have talked to the scientist that have worked on them..and from my very indepth understanding they dont fucntion, operate or have the same requirements as a human brain...The human brain does not require super cooling...
post 1596710661 01-30-2020, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted By AltarOfPlagues⏩
imagine not using a machine learning algorithm for early cancer screening because you are confused about who the patient is gonna sue

i think thats part of the hippocratic oath.
Again shows how much these topics differ.

What are you proposing? Screening for what exactly? Blanket screening?

If a tool is useful it will be used. Screening is sensitivity, specificity, ppv, npv and so on. How does AI play into it? Curious
post 1596710691 01-30-2020, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted By propreffered7⏩
Uhh so why is the creator of the supercomputer most closely resembling the brain. Notice how i said "most closely resembling the complexity of the brain" as weve introduced multiple things throughout the thread that are more complex than data/ algorithms/ patters. There are supercomputers more powerful but they are specifically designed to be more powerful however they dont approach the malleability/ efficiency/ dexterity of the brain. Can the "data" point to itself and say "i am that"? I mean thats just the very, very tip of even recognizing oneself as conscious. The spinnaker creator said:



More:



Btw, none of the advancements in "computing" even matter if we dont know information about our own brain. I have posted hundreds of problems still unknown about our consciousness yet.. Supposedly we can fully replicate it without knowing how it works lol

Nobody itt is suggesting these computers can be complex, were suggesting they are nowhere near the complexity of the brain
What about what you just posted ITT has to do with anything?

The fact that you post such simple questions, that you think are complex, says it all.

Why is the supercomputer modelled after the human brain?

HuRr dUrR, maybe cause the human brain is the most complex thing we know?

Any other tough questions you need answered?

I feel like a lot of people ITT are now droning on cause they have this misconception that they won't be viewed as being wrong so long as they have something to say.

Seriously keep asking questions that have nothing to do with this thread, other than having the word computer somewhere in there.

Strong autistic tendencies there Timmy.
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post 1596710801 01-30-2020, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted By mandarino⏩
If a tool is useful it will be used.
this isnt always the case. sometimes a lot of people die before people start washing their hands after handling dead bodies.

its because they dont know how the tool works and they dont know who the patient is gonna sue in case the tool is hypothetically bad.

edit- study published earlier this month that ai already outperforms humans on cancer screening. is this shocking?

Abstract
Screening mammography aims to identify breast cancer at earlier stages of the disease, when treatment can be more successful1. Despite the existence of screening programmes worldwide, the interpretation of mammograms is affected by high rates of false positives and false negatives2. Here we present an artificial intelligence (AI) system that is capable of surpassing human experts in breast cancer prediction. To assess its performance in the clinical setting, we curated a large representative dataset from the UK and a large enriched dataset from the USA. We show an absolute reduction of 5.7% and 1.2% (USA and UK) in false positives and 9.4% and 2.7% in false negatives. We provide evidence of the ability of the system to generalize from the UK to the USA. In an independent study of six radiologists, the AI system outperformed all of the human readers: the area under the receiver operating characteristic curve (AUC-ROC) for the AI system was greater than the AUC-ROC for the average radiologist by an absolute margin of 11.5%. We ran a simulation in which the AI system participated in the double-reading process that is used in the UK, and found that the AI system maintained non-inferior performance and reduced the workload of the second reader by 88%. This robust assessment of the AI system paves the way for clinical trials to improve the accuracy and efficiency of breast cancer screening.
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post 1596710941 01-30-2020, 12:06 PM
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#351
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Originally Posted By BloodFireDeath⏩
As useless gimmicks sure.


You sound extremely butthurt, doctor **** your mom or something?
Talk to someone with a legit smart home.

Is the computer in your car also a useless gimmick?

Applications will be refined, new ones will be discovered, etc.

Kinda like how first video games sucked and now we're on the verge of VR.

I bet 30 years ago there were plenty of people saying computers would never catch on.
The billionaire and the beggar both have 24 hours in a day.

That's why grandma's apple pie rocks and yours sucks.
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn
At least it will thunderstorm tonight, and we know how they feel about water. :)
^^^Racist police officer who also cries about how racism doesn't exist, also cries reverse racism and typifies the stupidity of the racist right, referring to black people as "they" and regurgitating racist stereotypes.
post 1596711671 01-30-2020, 12:16 PM
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#352
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Originally Posted By MBisonSon⏩
What about what you just posted ITT has to do with anything?

The fact that you post such simple questions, that you think are complex, says it all.

Why is the supercomputer modelled after the human brain?

HuRr dUrR, maybe cause the human brain is the most complex thing we know?

Any other tough questions you need answered?

I feel like a lot of people ITT are now droning on cause they have this misconception that they won't be viewed as being wrong so long as they have something to say.

Seriously keep asking questions that have nothing to do with this thread, other than having the word computer somewhere in there.

Strong autistic tendencies there Timmy.
Soo.. These computers represent something nowhere near the complexity of the brain but are supposed to supplant jobs such as doctors? Lmao

Why would you suggest thats good?

Hey we have this machine that is essentially way less complex than humans, but.. They should replace our jobs

Btw, notice how im not taking anything personal. Strong projections on your part
post 1596711701 01-30-2020, 12:16 PM
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...and for all of those in this thread that feel your job is safe and that AI is decades away - You will be the first to be replaced.

At my current company we implemented AI. AI, within five months, took a vertical within our company that had a job growth trajectory of a 25% increase year over year to a zeroed out hire rate. Within a year 85% of the department (that had been growing at 25% annually) were retrained and moved into other areas...

The repetitive trait I watch over and over was that those that refused AI were the first to be made obsolete. The ones that embraced AI and found ways to benefit AI and improve the company based on the data set, survived...

So resist it...fight it...and you will be the first to be a dinosaur
Embrace it...get out in front of it..learn to use it to your advantage - You will survive or at least for the time being.
post 1596711851 01-30-2020, 12:18 PM
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#354
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Originally Posted By MBisonSon⏩
Talk to someone with a legit smart home.

Is the computer in your car also a useless gimmick?

Applications will be refined, new ones will be discovered, etc.

Kinda like how first video games sucked and now we're on the verge of VR.

I bet 30 years ago there were plenty of people saying computers would never catch on.
Youre the one talking out your azz. Your stance is essentially "we will get there"

While people itt are pointing out specific contention

Then you just resort to ad hominem
post 1596711971 01-30-2020, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted By AltarOfPlagues⏩
this isnt always the case. sometimes a lot of people die before people start washing their hands after handling dead bodies.

its because they dont know how the tool works and they dont know who the patient is gonna sue in case the tool is hypothetically bad.

edit- study published earlier this month that ai already outperforms humans on cancer screening. is this shocking?

Abstract
Screening mammography aims to identify breast cancer at earlier stages of the disease, when treatment can be more successful1. Despite the existence of screening programmes worldwide, the interpretation of mammograms is affected by high rates of false positives and false negatives2. Here we present an artificial intelligence (AI) system that is capable of surpassing human experts in breast cancer prediction. To assess its performance in the clinical setting, we curated a large representative dataset from the UK and a large enriched dataset from the USA. We show an absolute reduction of 5.7% and 1.2% (USA and UK) in false positives and 9.4% and 2.7% in false negatives. We provide evidence of the ability of the system to generalize from the UK to the USA. In an independent study of six radiologists, the AI system outperformed all of the human readers: the area under the receiver operating characteristic curve (AUC-ROC) for the AI system was greater than the AUC-ROC for the average radiologist by an absolute margin of 11.5%. We ran a simulation in which the AI system participated in the double-reading process that is used in the UK, and found that the AI system maintained non-inferior performance and reduced the workload of the second reader by 88%. This robust assessment of the AI system paves the way for clinical trials to improve the accuracy and efficiency of breast cancer screening.
Im happy with that. I mean that is nice and clear. No disagreements here. This will be used sooner rather than later and the stats prove it.
But again, screening and diagnosing a scan/image is not the same as performing some of the tasks mentioned itt.
post 1596712021 01-30-2020, 12:20 PM
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#356
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Originally Posted By Scarrdbutsmartr⏩
You dont need a kiosk or to gather data..The data stores already exist...All it requires is access to the data and layering AI on top as a first phase. This is where 80% of the value is found...If you want to improve your data stores and find additional logic, all you have to do is increase your data stores with additional information...

Thats the beauty of AI - The data almost always exist across numerous data stores..You just have to mine it. Want more data, expand the data store.

AI will explode because the data exist..All it takes is for someone to write the code to mine the data for relevant data and then build in automation. Its just time to roll it out to all industries and continue to improve it.
lolwat. Who is getting the data from the patient? People who use medicine the most have minimal education, have no idea how to use anything technological and could barely read.
How is an AI getting the history from the patient? And more importantly, how is it doing this faster than a human?


The pro-AI people just can't answer these questions. You keep ignoring them and deflecting onto something else.
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post 1596712051 01-30-2020, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted By Scarrdbutsmartr⏩
I have no clue what you are talking about from a technical perspective. Current super computers can conduct a single one and zero based decision at a time. Quantum computers can do dozens, thousands, millions at a time based upon future growth models. If you point a machine that can conduct thousands of decisions a minute, give it data, let it watch patterns and then make decisions...You can do things that would take thousands/millions of years in just a few seconds.

Googles Quantum computer just figured out a math equation in just over 200 second...The same equation that IBMs engineers state that their top super computer would have taken 169 days (if memory serves me right) to figure out.

The reason why the brain is superior to a computer is that the brain can make several decisions at once. It can think and adjust thousands of parameters a minute and some of those decisions are automated. Quantum computing throws the limitations of a computer out the window...as in 100% of the supremacy of the human brain out the window.

We are talking hardware designs that are already in place. It may be "designed around a human brain" - I have no idea what that means. I've seen real life quantum computers and have talked to the scientist that have worked on them..and from my very indepth understanding they dont fucntion, operate or have the same requirements as a human brain...The human brain does not require super cooling...
Designed around the human brain means it mostly closely resembles how neurons fire in the brain

But SpiNNaker doesn’t just “think” like a brain. It creates models of the neurons in human brains, and it simulates more neurons in real time than any other computer on Earth, according to the statement.
“Its primary task is to support partial brain models: for example, models of cortex, of basal ganglia, or multiple regions expressed typically as networks of spiking [or firing] neurons
post 1596712121 01-30-2020, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted By Hardlifter9⏩
lolwat. Who is getting the data from the patient? People who use medicine the most have minimal education, have no idea how to use anything technological and could barely read.
How is an AI getting the history from the patient? And more importantly, how is it doing this faster than a human?


The pro-AI people just can't answer these questions. You keep ignoring them and deflecting onto something else.
would you use a machine learning program to screen for cancer that has been proven to outperform humans?
do not read my posts and weep, i am not there i do not sleep
i am the thousand greens that rep, i am the ban bet dutifully kept
of memes and trolls in toasted breads, i am not there, i am not dead.
post 1596712231 01-30-2020, 12:23 PM
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#359
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Originally Posted By propreffered7⏩
Youre the one talking out your azz. Your stance is essentially "we will get there"

While people itt are pointing out specific contention

Then you just resort to ad hominem
His thought pattern is factual and aligns with how technology grows and adapts. There is actually a law that demonstrates his position. The law is specific to hardware but its a generally accepted pattern within technology. Moores law...
post 1596712571 01-30-2020, 12:29 PM
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#360
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Originally Posted By propreffered7⏩
Designed around the human brain means it mostly closely resembles how neurons fire in the brain

But SpiNNaker doesn’t just “think” like a brain. It creates models of the neurons in human brains, and it simulates more neurons in real time than any other computer on Earth, according to the statement.
What is the primary function of the brain - The primary goal is to make multiple and simultaneous computations. Many of them autonomous.
What is the primary function of a computer - Its only form (at this time) is to make a single computation at a time
What is the primary function of a Quantum computer - The primary goal is to make multiple and simultaneous computations. Many of them autonomous

The power and decision making ability is limited in the human mind. The power and decision making ability is NOT limited (or at least cant be calculated) at this time in a quantum computer.

If your argument is that a human brain will always be superior to a quantum based computer, you would get laughed out of any room by legitimate scientists. Elon Musk is working on a neural link for humans to meld with computers. Why is he working on this? He knows that the computation power of a quantum computer so far exceeds that capability in a human mind that we will be obsolete within a few decades..There is no arguing this point and if your goal is to argue it, its been discredited by mathematics.

I dont know where we go from here...
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