UK says

warmer temps negatively impact some viruses, so it will be interesting to see if that holds true for this. i hope that is the case.

K-12 public schools closed minimum 2 weeks. Guess I'll be working minimum 14 straight with everybody calling out to stay home with kids. yay

Also banned freedom of assembly. But fear will make people give up their rights. Probably turn in all my firearms on Monday and just get it over with.

just got back from golfing scottsdale TPC champions course, absolutely beautiful. everyone was having a good laugh about everyone scared to leave their house.

Golf is the most frustrating sport. I'm at least decent at every other sport I've tried, and would get better with practice. But not golf. I used to go with my dad, who is very good and spent a lot of time trying to teach me. I sucked and never improved even a little. Wish I was good enough to enjoy it.

it takes practice for sure. i shot 94 today which is bad, but i actually played pretty good the score just didnt reflect it. had a couple blow up holes. im just barely good enough to enjoy it

mirin, how much did that cost?

What I've really been waiting for, for a little while now, is a back in stock notification on the CBC/Magtech 77gr OTM from anywhere I signed up for those, waiting awhile, no dice...looks like that window has closed. Hence the IMI purchase. Pretty sure the CBC costs less AND is more accurate/consistent, but...IMI razorcore for 70 CPR (total cost) was the right play I guess. Probably not going to be a good deal for awhile now if that specific round even shows up in stock. Was waiting on back in stock alert for 44 CPR PPU 223 75gr BTHP Match too...guessing that's off the table. Ike I don't know a damn thing about that aussie weird ass 69 thing (lol)...WTF is that?

Bro, you need to calm the mother**** down.Golf is super hard. I hate it and love it at the same time.


ETA:

Is the P365 gtg yet???

Golf sucks.

All I hear is how calming it is . . . but if you are new to the game, all you get it marhshalls constantly pressing you to play faster. It's anything but relaxing when that bs is going on and you are new and trying to learn. Golfers are their own worst enemy.

i have played about 15 rounds in my life. 12 of them in the last two years. i normally take a day off work and play when it's pretty empty. it's so much better than having people up your ass.

I seriously will probably never play again. I tried to play five or six times and all my experiences were the same. I've got better things to do with my time.

If I could get a semi-consistent stroke, instead of being all over the place, I wouldn't mind a high score so much.
brb scavenging the tree line because I ran out of balls again. lolI wanted to love it for years. Gave up a long time ago but maybe I'll hit up a driving range.

I hope that in 2 or 3 months ammo availability and prices go back to what they were a few weeks ago. Give me at least a month or two window from like July-Sep to buy a **** ton of ammo. Needa get my damn house sold to free up some of that cash.

Alright fellas. If a first time gun buyer asked you where to start what would you say? I've got lots of friends who shoot/hunt regularly and I want to at least be able to feel at ease with what I've got before I go shooting with people. Do you think it is better to start with a pistol or could I grab a rifle and figure it out equally as fast?

I'm bored as hell and I have caffeine in my late at night and I'm just an all around handsome good guy, so I'll type up a long response with my shiity opinions but I think most here will agree in general. It's not well written and the format it's written in evolves as I write it lmao

Depends on your budget. If you have a budget of like $750 (+/- $100), and you can conceal carry where you live, and you intend to do so in the near future, then get a compact sized handgun chambered in 9mm. Anyone that says other than 9mmis wrong, just appeal to authority here:http://www.tactical-life.com/gear/45.../#bsum-9mm-win

Compact handguns are like $550, the other $200 in the budget is for mags, ammo, holster (all necessary).

Later on when you have more money you should absolutely get an AR-15. A solid AR-15 that I'd trust my life to will run about $1000-$1400, that price range is just dependent upon what you want, and that is for only the rifle itself (no optics/ammo/mags/sling). Some people will chime in and say "You can get a great reliable AR15 for like $600-$900", and they are absolutely right about that, but imo it's worth it to just save another 3 or 4 hundred for an objectively better rifle that isn't unreasonably expensive nor frivolous.

IMO the best value, that is readily available (lol sorry Geissele even though you're TST), is BCM. Get these when/if in stock, it's extremely good value:

https://www.primaryarms.com/bravo-co...r-mcmr-15-16in
https://www.primaryarms.com/1+Lower-...-Manufacturing
https://www.primaryarms.com/bravo-co...-group-bcm-bcg
https://www.primaryarms.com/bcm-vlto...-gfh-mod4b-556

Ikeman has made great "so you want to buy an ar15?" threads with great advice for different price ranges. But I suggest, and it's just my shiit opinion, that you should get something in that BCM tier quality for like $1200 the first time. Buy once cry once. Unless you're a poor then just gtfo, jk, idk that's your budget and for you to decide.

ETA:

Lmaowhat am I doing with my life?

Going to separate this into two posts...

Part 2:
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showt...post1599823941

~~~~~Most important info right here:~~~~~

You must understand and follow gun laws and use-of-force/self defense laws. Look up applicable laws in your area. It's more important than training.

Not going in too much depth here, but to get you started...

Watch all of this, there's many good infos throughout:



Read this:
https://www.amazon.com/Deadly-Force-...dp/1440240612/

Maybe watch youtube videos on shootings, idk, others can chime in here. But that book is really good. Take a class from that author if you can.

~~~~~Hand Gun info~~~~~~

Budget:
1) Handgun about $550
2) Extra 2 or 3 mags about $50-75
3.a) Like 100 rounds of self defense ammo: about $50
3.b) 1000 rounds of 9mm: about $200
4) Holster: about $75

Total idk like $900 but you could buy less ammo at beginning though.

Things that you will need:
1) Handgun
2) Magazines
3) Ammo
4) Holster(s)

Things you need to do:
1) Again, understand law
2) Train

Glock 19 is the defacto choice compact-size handgun, can't go wrong with it, but I like CZ P-01 a lot, CZ P10C is great too. There are other solid choices that other posters will chime in with.

"Compact" sized handgun is:

1) Small enough to be concealable in most garb
2) Big enough that it isn't too difficult to get a good grip on, and has a good length slide for weight and sight radius (distance between front/rear sights). This is important to be able to shoot fast and accurate.
3) Generally "Compact" sizes will have like 14/15/16 round mags (+1 in chamber). Without getting into it too much, this is important, you want to carry as big as mags as you comfortable can conceal.
4) More on mag capacity: This is in general... You're probably gonna need to get, at minimum, like 3 solid central nervous system (CNS) hits to stop a human. A trained shooter will probably have CNS hit rate of like 20%,at best(most likely much worse), in a life or death situation. So having a mag of less than 15 rounds isn't ideal. Just try to stack the deck in your favor. There's a lot of empirical evidence supporting this, more or less, but I'm too lazy to get into it that much here and cite sources. JUST BELIEVE ME REEEEEE

Other sizes of handguns:

"Full Size" e.g. Glock 17
"Sub compact" e.g. Glock 26
"Single stack sub compact" e.g. Glock 43

Other manufacturers have comparable offerings in those sizes too. Those three other sizes have their places, but for your first handgun should just be a compact (Glock 19).

~~~Magazines (handgun)~~~

Glock 19 Gen 5 comes with three 15 round magazines, I'm pretty damn sure. It would be 2 mags minimum though for sure.

You should buy at least 2 or 3 extra magazines. So let's say now you have 6 mags total.

What you'll do is test fire 2 or 3 of those magazines to make sure they work well with practice ammo then with your self defense ammo (more on that later), then after that you just set those 2 or 3 mags aside and keep them loaded up with the self defense ammo then basically never use them again. These mags will be considered your "carry" mags. These are what you'll carry and you don't train with them because you've verified that they work without malfunctions and now you baby them so they don't get hurt (but maybe once a year you retest them just to be sure).

Then the remaining 3 or 4 mags that you have you will use those as your "training" mags. These mags you don't care about, I mean don't be retarded about it and do stupid ****, but you just don't worry about them getting beat up when training.

~~~Ammo~~~

You need good quality self defense ammo. These are hollow points. They're usually like $0.50/round. You only need like 100 to 200 rounds starting off. What you'll do is, what I mentioned earlier, you'll test your "carry" mags with like 100 rounds. Maybe more or less rounds, people have varying opinions, but at minimum a full mag of the the self defense ammo through each "carry" mag. Then after you test that full mag, you load the carry mags back up and just leave them be, then you have like 50-100 extra sitting around on hand ready for boogaloo.

The defacto two choices (though there are other options, just depends on gun) for a Glock 19 are:

Speer Gold Dot 124gr+P
Federal HST 147gr

Personally I use Speer Gold Dot 124gr+P.

Beyond self defense ammo, you'll have a separate tier of "training" ammo. This is basically just FMJ cheap ammo to train with. Usually in ideal ammo economy it's like $0.18/round for 9mm. There's many good options out there for brands, CCI Blazer, Speer Lawman, etc many many options ask others.

How much training ammo wat means?See next section

~~~Holster(s)~~~

You for sure must get at least 1 holster. The only two types you should look at getting are: inside waistband (IWB) or outside waistband (OWB). Both are designed to carry on a belt.

Quick note on belts, they're important, but I don't want to start a whole new section and get off topic. You should eventually (it's not top priority, but it's important) get a good quality belt for carrying a gun. A good quality belt that you can carry with every day is likely going to be 1.5" width and made of sturdy material that doesn't flex/bend.

A good quality leather belt:https://www.thebeltman.net/

Or a belt made of scuba webbing or similar material. I really like this belt, have used for like 6 years:
https://www.aresgear.com/index.php?m...roducts_id=454

Any ways, holsters...

IWB or OWB are designed to attach (via loops) to belt. We refer to the belt line positions with an analog clock. Up "front" (under your naval) would be 12:00, directly to your right is 3:00, behind 6:00, etc. You will carry the holster on your strong-arm side.

Sorry, I'm all over the place but this is basically stream of conscience and I'm too lazy to edit this, let's back up a bit.

A good quality holster is gonna be like $50-$75, depending on options. You should get one made of kydex. There's a lot of great manufacturers out there these days, off top of my head google "trex arms" "anrdesigns", idk there's just a lot of good options ask around

Ideally, you should get both and IWB and OWB holster, but if can only afford one for now then get an IWB so that you can conceal carry it.

Oh yeah, also there is "appendix inside waistband" these are meant to be carried up front at about 1:00 (if you're a right handed shooter). It's superior position to carry for brief explained reasons: easier to conceal, easier to access, just cause bro accept it. You won't shoot your dink off, just don't be stupid.HOWEVER...make sure you train so you don't actually shoot your dink off. Be careful, don't try to get sub one second instagram draw times.

~~~Training~~~

If you're being introspective, intentional, and deliberate with your training you should have a plan at the range of what to practice. You don't got to the gym to just dick around and wander from smith machine to smith machine. You have a program, you lift free weights, do compound movements, etc. Dicking around at the range is when you just go do full mag dumps, you shoot prone or bench from 25 yards with your .22lr, etc stupid shiit.

When I go to the range I write down specific warm up and drills I'm going to practice. When I am training efficiently I am going through about 100rds/hour. E.g. I start with handgun in holster, on shot timer buzzer I draw, fire a shot, reholster; all of that is "1 rep". I do like "3 sets of 10" of that for a warmup. Obviously I'm not the arbiter of what is effective training, but I don't think I'm too far off base with maybe about 100rds/hour. I bring that rds/hour number up because you can then figure out about how much ammo you need over a period of time to become proficient with shooting.

This is what you should do to get gud at shooting

1) Buy your handgun
2) Watch youtube vids on gun safety
3) Unload gun, practice manual of arms and other functions of the gun (hammer, safety, trigger, mag release, mags, etc), get a good feel for the gun
4) Watch youtube for how to take apart, clean, and lube gun. Have a decent understanding of it.
5) Keep practicing safe gun handling
6) Dry fire a lot
7) Go to the range, be safe, shoot like 50-100 rounds. Familiarize yourself
8) Watch youtube vids and follow social media (instagram) accounts of good firearms instructors (I'll provide a non-definitive list below). Get tips and tricks and what not from them
9) Start trying to practice the stuff that instructors talk about. Start slow, build up
10) Progressively do more and more drills
11) Repeat any of these steps as necessary
12) Once you feel like you can "crawl",take a class from one of those instructors.
12.b) Take classes
13) Continue to train
14) Start doing competitive shooting. It's a lot of fun, gives you something to strive for to get better at, good way to measure yourself.

Oh yeah and get a shot timer to train with when you have the $ to do so. It's an extremely good training tool.https://www.amazon.com/Competition-E...dp/B008KMOSAI/

Starting off as a noob, then progressing to like step 9 or 10... I'd say that if you spend at least 3-6 hours at the range per month, ideally in two separate trips, then you'd improve at a very very good rate. You'd be doing more than like 95% of others.

In addition to live fire range time, if you were to spend like 60-90 minutes/week doing dry fire practice at home (and you can split that up over 2 or 3 days), then you'd be a man among boys as dry fire is what separates them, but I digress... 3-6 hours/month, after like 3 to 6 months of doing that then taking a class from a good instructor you'd be better than like 95% of people.

That said, it isn't necessary to spend 3-6 hours/month (but the more you can the better). If you were to do like 1 trip to the range per month and spend at least 1.5 - 3 hours there, you'd progress at a great rate as well. The next "step down" would be like 3 hours per quarter (3 months), any less than that and your shooting skill is defnitely decaying (it's a very perishable skill). I'd say 3 hours/quarter is just to maintain a semi-decent proficiency; it'd be like going to the gym only 60-120 minutes/week.

So back to when I brought up training rounds per hour rate (say about 100/hr):

3-6 hours/month is like 300-600 rounds per month. 2-3 hours/month is 200-300 rounds. So plan on going through at least about 2500 rounds/year. You should buy ammo in bulk online, probably 1000 rounds minimum per order. sgammo.com targetsportsusa.com You can usually get 1k rounds of 9mm for like $200 shipped.

~~~Miscellaneous things~~~

Great instructors that I've taken classes from:

Travis Haley[instagram]https://www.instagram.com/haleystrategicofficial/[/instagram]
Frank Proctor[instagram]https://www.instagram.com/frankproctorshooting/[/instagram]
Pat McNamara[instagram]https://www.instagram.com/tmacsinc/[/instagram]

Look up their youtube channels too. Also search them on youtube because other people's channels have good tips/tricks/instructional vids of them.

[URL=https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-g-wn12tbmgzcKNF8UXnyA]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-g...bmgzcKNF8UXnyA[/URL]
Sage Dynamics is great. He explains concepts with great detail.

There's a lot of other great instructors, too many to list. Just ask around in this thread, or honestly just look at who those three instructors associate with... not saying that if they aren't buddies with someone then that someone isn't a good instructor. There's just so much great info out there that you can get simply by following the many different great instructor's youtubes and instagramses.

~~~End~~~
I ran out of steam. good luck to you and your firearms goals of 2020 take a multi lift heavy you'll be Travis Haley in no time

Step 1: Buy Glock 19
Step 2: Read what Millz posted
Step 3: Re-read what he posted
Step 4: When you have specific questions or want to know fair current pricing on something and a source, come back here and ask them

Millz, that was very thorough

Ike has a current AR thread:

https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showt...hp?t=178133871

I partly take back my post about ammo availability.

Target Sports does have (10 day shipping delay) PPU 75gr BTHP Match (very good ammo) for 44 CPR free shipping with Prime

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/prvi...2232-p-65.aspx

^ picked up some

Would you get this over the IMI 77 gr or that ADI 69 gr? My barrels are all 1/7 twist so I’d be fine with the heaviest bullets.

I'd get the P365XL. Same grip footprint as a shield, but holds 12+1.

I dont know how Siggah Slouhuwer does it, but my p365XL shoots softer and flatter than a ported P&C shield.

12+1 flushfit

15 round mag back up in a lighttuck iwb mag pouch
15 round mag back up in a greenforce gear mag pocket carrier

47 rounds of 9mm EDC

you'd have to carry like 9 shield mags to get that capacanty!

Stopped at the proshop yesterday to pick up my auction winnings (we do a used gun quarterly auction for employees that mostly consists of trade show guns) and it was complete chaos. Sold out completely of M400 Tread (our budget oriented AR) and not a lot of the high dollar stuff left either. Background checks on pistol taking upwards of 2 hours in NH right now.

Edit: And Meatie is right, XL all day unless you're looking for something that will work in a pocket holster. XL has a better grip, higher capacity, and minimal size difference between the standard.

Panic buying guns is obviously dumb right now but, I’m glad the gun industry is getting a boost right now. Everything has been slow and easy. I’m sure everyone from the local gun stores to the ammo companies and manufactures could use an infusion of cash.

You sound like my old man. "I can find more fun things to do than chase a little ball around a field."

the x5 legion is pisseningly fun to shoot. about 500 rounds in now and was nailing bill drills at 2.20-2.29 all day with it and probably can only get better (second time taking it out on the range).


Also, what did Phil Straders face look like when he saw WILSON COMBAT making P320 frames?

The IMI Razorcore is what I'd rather have in my rifle, but, it's 70 CPR vs 44 CPR. The PPU 75gr is a great accuracy vs price and also has better terminals than bulk FMJ. I've been buying the 75gr PPU for three different box styles/colors over the years now lol (green, blue, gold)

I see. Target Sports has the PPU 69gr in stock too but that’s a little more expensive. I might get a case of that 75gr.

Cheapest 9mm online for hoarding? Looked around but looks like I missed the bus not buying the last couple of months. Most sites have a shipping delay type notice.

Gonna try some stores later today to see if I can scrape up a few hundred rounds.