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» Why do tradies on this forum brag about being uneducated? (very srs)
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post 1618084341 09-30-2020, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted By wincel
Are either of you going to give arguments for why I am wrong?

Are you saying our economy rewards generalization over specialization?

We clearly live in the most specialized economy in human history. It's amazing that you dispute this.
Your opinion doesn't mean much, because there's nothing to back it up. You can't even give an example, because you've never held a job.
When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home.
post 1618084511 09-30-2020, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted By Godfrd824
Your opinion doesn't mean much, because there's nothing to back it up. You can't even give an example, because you've never held a job.
You keep saying it's an opinion. It's not. It's an observation and inference. If my observation that the economy is highly specialized is incorrect, please explain why. If my inference that this leads to hostility toward experts is incorrect, please explain how the human fear of the unknown isn't a common thing.
post 1618084601 09-30-2020, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron
Deflection upon deflecion.

I said what you said was BS after you deflected for an entire page. It's BS because you keep deflecting. There is your explanation.

Again, what are you basing that statement on?

What's so hard about answering this question?
Oh. I base it on the fact that we live in the most specialized economy in human history.
post 1618084631 09-30-2020, 10:19 PM
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#94
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Originally Posted By Godfrd824
A legitimate question, if wincel truly is a scholar, that is certainly something to brag about, so let's see it wincel, let's see what your thirst for knowledge and understanding has yielded.
dont even bother with this basement dwelling psycho. He has no job, no formal education and lives in his parents basement. I've been down this path with him.

Total fraud and failure in life and will die a virgin. Shouldnt even be on these forums after threatening the life of Trump.
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post 1618084951 09-30-2020, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted By dannyg1217
dont even bother with this basement dwelling psycho. He has no job, no formal education and lives in his parents basement. I've been down this path with him.

Total fraud and failure in life and will die a virgin. Shouldnt even be on these forums after threatening the life of Trump.
Call the FBI.

BTW this guy is a prime example. He has a degree in power engineering, but he was completely wrong about the nature of flight because he has no education in fluid mechanics.
post 1618085091 09-30-2020, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron
You're basing the statement of "In order to do anything of value these days, you must become an expert in a particular discipline" on "the fact that we live in the most specialized economy in human history".

Yup, I figured I would play along, but you've proven you're just talking out of your ass, as usual.

Oh and BTW, you're not anywhere near being a generalist.
Why is it wrong? We live in an extremely specialized economy. To do anything of value, you're usually required to specialize. Each job is usually a specific role.
post 1618085371 09-30-2020, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron
Just go sit in the corner wincel, even you must realize when you lost.
I'll come back to this later when you feel like actually explaining the point. You seem to think generalization is more valuable than specialization in today's economy. That's just blatantly false. You, danny, and godfrd should try making points rather than personal attacks.
post 1618085571 09-30-2020, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron
No you won't, because I won't entertain it past asking the same question that you haven't answered yet. And I think you are smart enough to know what my point is, because if you didn't, you wouldn't keep deflecting.
So what is your point?

You either think the economy rewards generalization or you think it doesn't. Either the economy favors specialization or it favors generalization. Which is it?

I really don't get your point.
post 1618085701 09-30-2020, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted By wincel
Call the FBI.

BTW this guy is a prime example. He has a degree in power engineering, but he was completely wrong about the nature of flight because he has no education in fluid mechanics.
keep coping, youre below every group including the minimum wagers. You will die a virgin, youre the equivalent or below a welfare queen. Lol, youre so smart but can't get any job at all

Just remember most of us have jobs, houses, friends and a family. You have none, zero and I assume it will remain that way.
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post 1618087371 09-30-2020, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron
If you didn't get my point, you'd have answered my question already. Which I've asked first I believe, and have yet to receive any answer that's not a deflection.
post 1618087851 09-30-2020, 11:12 PM
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This is the misc...ignorance and stupidity are worn like badges of honor
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post 1618171571 10-01-2020, 08:45 PM
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#102
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Originally Posted By wincel
You keep saying it's an opinion. It's not. It's an observation and inference.
If you have no real world first hand experience with it, then yeah it’s just an opinion and not a real observance.


If you did, you’d know that while specialization often gets someone a first job, being more generalized and balanced in skills and knowledge, which includes your social skills, will reward you much more than deep specialization. Being more balanced will lead to roles like leadership and management.


Which engineer is most rewarded by the economy - the super autist expert, or the pretty good engineer who played sports, makes friends easily, and has social skills?


Your “observations” about how the economy and the world of work functions are just as valid as any “observations” you would have about sex and relationships
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post 1618172541 10-01-2020, 08:59 PM
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#103
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Originally Posted By wincel
Really, it's not a question of tradies vs stemcels. It's more a question of the economy and society in general becoming overly specialized. In order to do anything of value these days, you must become an expert in a particular discipline. This necessarily means you are forced to miss out on other knowledge. Society doesn't reward generalists as much anymore. Since your job is just 1 thing and you do that for like 30+ years, you end up kind of stuck in your way of thinking. A skilled tradesman gets extensive knowledge and education in his particular trade, but misses out on the general information one would think would be relevant to a general understanding of existence. For a functional democracy, most people ought to be well versed in science, math, history, economics, art, law, psychology, business, trades, war/defense etc. It's impractical for most people to obtain this education while the economy really forces them to specialize.
I see you've studied Adam Smith
Pilot
post 1618173281 10-01-2020, 09:08 PM
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#104
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Originally Posted By IlChosenOne
If you have no real world first hand experience with it, then yeah it’s just an opinion and not a real observance.


If you did, you’d know that while specialization often gets someone a first job, being more generalized and balanced in skills and knowledge, which includes your social skills, will reward you much more than deep specialization. Being more balanced will lead to roles like leadership and management.


Which engineer is most rewarded by the economy - the super autist expert, or the pretty good engineer who played sports, makes friends easily, and has social skills?


Your “observations” about how the economy and the world of work functions are just as valid as any “observations” you would have about sex and relationships
My personal experiences are irrelevant since my point is made in any economics discussion of division of labor. We live in the most highly specialized economy in human history. Specialists tend to have higher wages than generalists. You've made no real argument.
post 1618174091 10-01-2020, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron
Just checking in to see if you've answered my question yet. I see that you haven't, as I expected, and so I am leaving satisfied.
Almost every single comment you make is an ad hominem. You practically never make any meaningful point. You hate me because you are a former mod or BobbyD. I'm pretty tired of replying to you.
post 1618174401 10-01-2020, 09:23 PM
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#106
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Anyway the point stands. The anti-intellectualism you are seeing is due to an extreme level of specialization in our economy. Most of you will die on Mount Stupid.
post 1618174701 10-01-2020, 09:25 PM
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#107
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Originally Posted By wincel
It's part of a larger trend of anti-intellectualism in the country. Since intellectualism values truth in the form of empirical truths (science) or rational truths (math) above all else, it makes sense for people who are enemies of truth to seek to destroy it. Because science and math have revealed certain things about reality that force us to exclude specific philosophies and worldviews, a growing number of people on both the right and the left are becoming hostile to education itself as a way to control the perception of reality. No one can change reality itself so the next best thing is to attack the perception of it.
This. See our current president and his retarded fans and their anti-mask views
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post 1618174831 10-01-2020, 09:27 PM
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#108
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Originally Posted By IlChosenOne
If you have no real world first hand experience with it, then yeah it’s just an opinion and not a real observance.


If you did, you’d know that while specialization often gets someone a first job, being more generalized and balanced in skills and knowledge, which includes your social skills, will reward you much more than deep specialization. Being more balanced will lead to roles like leadership and management.



Which engineer is most rewarded by the economy - the super autist expert, or the pretty good engineer who played sports, makes friends easily, and has social skills?


Your “observations” about how the economy and the world of work functions are just as valid as any “observations” you would have about sex and relationships
I think you have a point here. It reminds me of the fact that the super smart people don't always get the job when they often have no social skills and wouldn't be a good member of the team.

I also think that there is something false about it. Those leadership and management roles are filled from below...usually. Who are in those roles below? Specialists. I think that at first, you should seek to specialize, then pursue broadening opportunities. The military does a great job at this. You are taught to become an expert in your field, then you work your way up by increasing the breadth of experience that you have. No leader will make it to the top of a multi-function organization with only very narrow professional experience.
Pilot
post 1618175221 10-01-2020, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted By Ayz33
I think you have a point here. It reminds me of the fact that the super smart people don't always get the job when they often have no social skills and wouldn't be a good member of the team.

I also think that there is something false about it. Those leadership and management roles are filled from below...usually. Who are in those roles below? Specialists. I think that at first, you should seek to specialize, then pursue broadening opportunities. The military does a great job at this. You are taught to become an expert in your field, then you work your way up by increasing the breadth of experience that you have. No leader will make it to the top of a multi-function organization with only very narrow professional experience.
Even management generally requires specialization in management. For example, most executives have MBAs. In fact, one of the only places you tend to see generalists thrive is in startups since they are forced to take on multiple roles at the company.

I wouldn't call someone with an engineering degree and an MBA who manages engineers a generalist. He's a specialist in engineering management.
post 1618175441 10-01-2020, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted By wincel
Even management generally requires specialization in management. For example, most executives have MBAs.
Agreed. I would almost consider that broadening since you are moving towards a new specialization instead of building upon your initial skill. Still not nearing "generalization" though
Pilot
post 1618175541 10-01-2020, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron
Are you still spouting off?

JFL at considering an MBA to be "specialization".

Maybe you need to start "specializing" in answering the question posed.
Management is a discipline of study and an MBA certifies some level of specialized education. There are also many specializations within an MBA as well.
post 1618175871 10-01-2020, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted By Ayz33
Agreed. I would almost consider that broadening since you are moving towards a new specialization instead of building upon your initial skill. Still not nearing "generalization" though
Right. My perspective on a generalist is a MacGyver type. Perhaps a lone farmer who builds his own housing, catches or grows his own food, and is mostly self reliant would be the best example of a modern day generalist. A jack of all trades.

For most of human history, people had to be generalists.

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

— Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love"

Yet, of course, specialization, as Adam Smith said, is one of the things that allowed our society to become so productive and enabled the construction of marvelous products that would be too difficult for a small group of generalists to create.

What's interesting is we clearly didn't evolve to be specialists. This makes our entire way of living feel very unnatural. People become jaded and unhappy with the same job after decades. It is in our nature to get bored and seek to learn new skills.

The tragedy is there isn't enough time. Unless you're really clever, it's difficult to gain even a basic understanding of the vast number of fields of knowledge and expertise. Democracy requires people to have a strong general education, but our education keeps morphing to become more specialized.
post 1618176391 10-01-2020, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron
Hmmm



Just LOL.

Edit : Oh almost forgot, still no answer to a very simple question.
I'm pretty good at building things, figuring out how they work, and troubleshooting. I can usually hack it at whatever it is I am trying to do.

Is there a reason you follow every comment I make and spend all your time trying to "gotcha" me?
post 1618176451 10-01-2020, 09:50 PM
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#114
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Trades don't brag about being uneducated. You NEED brains to work on these high tech buildings. There's ALWAYS problem solving for the medium and big projects. If you're a stupid fuk you'll be a laborer the rest of your life.

Trades brag how they didn't have to go to some college and get ass raped for $40k to get a $50k job. While 20 year olds are struggling with the part time college job, the 20 year old tradie is making $20/hr. By 24 they're making $30/hr easy and that's not even overtime. And FYI you don't have to stay in the trades all your life. I had trades in my Construction Management classes, all of us become Managers of course.

If I had to start over, I'd go trades + live at home. By the time I'm 23 I got $100k saved, enough to go to college debt free, buy a house, and still invest.
post 1618176541 10-01-2020, 09:52 PM
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#115
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Originally Posted By wincel
Even management generally requires specialization in management. For example, most executives have MBAs. In fact, one of the only places you tend to see generalists thrive is in startups since they are forced to take on multiple roles at the company.

I wouldn't call someone with an engineering degree and an MBA who manages engineers a generalist. He's a specialist in engineering management.
Strong purely theoretical knowledge of what an MBA entails lol

You know as much as any cuck who read the pamphlet made by the uni’s marketing department. Sad!
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post 1618176621 10-01-2020, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron
And not very good at answering simple questions. You don't seem to be very good at being a "generalist".
Cool.
post 1618176681 10-01-2020, 09:54 PM
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#117
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Originally Posted By MikeLowrrrey
Trades don't brag about being uneducated. You NEED brains to work on these high tech buildings. There's ALWAYS problem solving for the medium and big projects. If you're a stupid fuk you'll be a laborer the rest of your life.

Trades brag how they didn't have to go to some college and get ass raped for $40k to get a $50k job. While 20 year olds are struggling with the part time college job, the 20 year old tradie is making $20/hr. By 24 they're making $30/hr easy and that's not even overtime. And FYI you don't have to stay in the trades all your life. I had trades in my Construction Management classes, all of us become Managers of course.

If I had to start over, I'd go trades + live at home. By the time I'm 23 I got $100k saved, enough to go to college debt free, buy a house, and still invest.
then the economy tanks and the tradies can't get a job, so the STEMcels have to help them with welfare through the bad times lest they become criminals or try to upend society.
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post 1618176731 10-01-2020, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted By IlChosenOne
Strong purely theoretical knowledge of what an MBA entails lol

You know as much as any cuck who read the pamphlet made by the uni’s marketing department. Sad!
Are you arguing that an MBA isn't a specialized degree that certifies some specific business or economic skills?
post 1618176761 10-01-2020, 09:55 PM
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the unabomber said tradies were how people were suppose to live and STEMcels are coping *******s destroying the world
The system HAS TO force people to behave in ways
that are increasingly remote from the natural pattern of
human behavior. For example, the system needs scientists,
mathematicians and engineers. It can’t function without
them. So heavy pressure is put on children to excel in
these fields. It isn’t natural for an adolescent human being
to spend the bulk of his time sitting at a desk absorbed in
study. A normal adolescent wants to spend his time in active
contact with the real world. Among primitive peoples
the things that children are trained to do tend to be in reasonable
harmony with natural human impulses. Among
the American Indians, for example, boys were trained in
active outdoor pursuits — just the sort of thing that boys
like. But in our society children are pushed into studying
technical subjects, which most do grudgingly.
post 1618176801 10-01-2020, 09:55 PM
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#120
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Originally Posted By VTheKing
then the economy tanks and the tradies can't get a job, so the STEMcels have to help them with welfare through the bad times lest they become criminals or try to upend society.
We have division of labor. You need both tradies and stemcels. They are all valuable cogs in the economic machine. Problem is nobody likes being a cog.
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