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» **Un-OFFICIAL** Trading and Investing Thread: Part XIII -- Robber Baron Edition
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post 1636903833 04-23-2021, 08:19 AM
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#8161
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Originally Posted By MediocreGains
Possible fake out, but looking like the market has decided it gives zero chits about the tax proposal, lol. Either that or it figures that either Biden will walk this back or a compromise will be reached, which is likely in my opinion.

AMD also on fire as INTC dumps. Business as usual. Too bad I didn't jump in on that dip with calls yesterday because of the tax fear.

Big pump on NET also. Finally back over 80.
AMD 1DTE yesterday 82C were trading at 0.1 now 0.73 at peaked at 1.25 this morning.

market just chewing through the proposal like nothing.

was great chance at some small 1DTE attempts.
post 1636904423 04-23-2021, 08:27 AM
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market at record highs dropped .000000001% cause Biden... lol

the world is gonna end crew go crazy

today back to normal lol
"Paper money is going away" - EM
post 1636905373 04-23-2021, 08:42 AM
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#8163
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Well I was wrong, everything skyrocketing. My BAC calls went up enough to be green. BTC stocks pumping despite massive BTC dip 🤡. Should have known it would happen when they crashed when BTC hit its ATH
post 1636906343 04-23-2021, 08:57 AM
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#8164
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Originally Posted By Destor
Sad thing is people calling this a buying opportunity when BTC was legit $7.5k a year ago and the thing has long history of spiking hard and then crashing hard. There are no fundamentals to back anything up and there’s no reason to think now is some amazing sale, the downside risk is FAR greater than any upside
That was before a lot of the institutional investments. Funds, Tesla, square, etc.

Not saying what it’s at is cheap but considering the long term potential it’s worth the risk to me.
post 1636906883 04-23-2021, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted By MediocreGains
Possible fake out, but looking like the market has decided it gives zero chits about the tax proposal, lol. Either that or it figures that either Biden will walk this back or a compromise will be reached, which is likely in my opinion.

AMD also on fire as INTC dumps. Business as usual. Too bad I didn't jump in on that dip with calls yesterday because of the tax fear.

Big pump on NET also. Finally back over 80.
Corporations don't get special capital gains rates like individuals, so raising the capital gains rates doesn't cut into earnings (most publicly traded companies are taxed as "c" corps).

IMO, raising capital gains significantly on high marginal income is the correct call and the first thing Biden has proposed that is good policy and that is actually "liberal". Just hoping he doesn't mess with the corporate tax rate.
mo e
post 1636908093 04-23-2021, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted By mulletwarrior
Corporations don't get special capital gains rates like individuals, so raising the capital gains rates doesn't cut into earnings (most publicly traded companies are taxed as "c" corps).

IMO, raising capital gains significantly on high marginal income is the correct call and the first thing Biden has proposed that is good policy and that is actually "liberal". Just hoping he doesn't mess with the corporate tax rate.
Watch and see
post 1636908143 04-23-2021, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted By Schnitzl
I don't mean this negatively at all but as an economist and data scientist leading 2000 people, why are you all in on one stock rather than spreading out the risk over multiple stocks as well as reacting emotionally to small changes in the market? There's so much information out there on the basics of stock market trading including diversification & loss-cutting at around 10%. The dips and increases have been taking place in the market since the beginning of time so delayed gratification & looking at results long-term is an essential part of a business as well as in trading.
Sure, so I don’t lead 2,000 people, this must be some misreading.

I have a pension, I own a business with a 7 figure valuation based on EBITDA multiple, I have multi-unit properties, and other ventures where my investment is already made, no additional capital required and it’s a 12-36 month run for them to become profitable (gas station, glass/smoke shop, commercial farming operation)

Tbh my main business partner asked me why I still keep my 9-5. (Pension, healthcare, I like it, consulting opportunities to retire on 10 hours of work a week)

My IRA is really a misnomer, it isn’t my retirement, it’s a tax advantaged account that I’ve placed money into.

This is why investments should always be taken in perspective. Risk management is actually likely my best skill. On the Palantir calls I lost maybe .05% of my net worth and it was a gamble that had maybe a 2% chance at being a $50k+ play. It would have provided significant liquidity which matters no matter what your net worth.

And bro on delayed gratification, I lived off brown rice, beans, and a multivitamin for about 5 years in my 20’s to build the capital for my first business venture and to support it. You don’t want this struggle.

On another note, I think we’re going to see a tremendous comeuppance when the tax man gets his chit in order. Girls with only fans, PPP, crypto, etc. Those homies and gym bunnies showing up with the new G-wagon at the gym? They gonna be shilling Mary Kay and nutrisystem before too long, if they aren’t in jail.

Also on diversification. My argument would be the markets are so fukked right now that there is almost no diversification outside of Beta. I think once the meme hype and all that recent garbage falls away, that Palantir will have appreciation disconnected from the markets. It goes back to Thiel’s argument about tech stocks not being a bubble and actually being the hedge against stock market bubbles. If markets truly chit the bed over the next 20 +years I could see my pension reduced (80% chance) or even disappear (.0001% chance but it exists).

By investing solely in an equity I believe completely disconnected from general market activity isn’t that the best diversification against doomsday’s scenarios where I never receive a pension?

And I don’t bank on a pension or equities for my retirement, but they are part of broader diversification, each with its own risks. If someone thinks owning a bunch of different US equities is diversification? I have some terrible, terrible news for you.
post 1636909783 04-23-2021, 09:45 AM
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#8168
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Originally Posted By mulletwarrior
Just hoping he doesn't mess with the corporate tax rate.
They've been talking about this regularly, it's happening. They'll at least try.

They're also proposing another gas tax hike too.
★★★ A State of Trance Crew ★★★
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post 1636910133 04-23-2021, 09:52 AM
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A corporate tax hike would be bad news for a lot of high earners without even mentioning big companies. Many high earners (good engineers, doctors, lawyers etc) are working through individual corporations and are subject to corporate tax rates along with whatever method they use to pay themselves (salary vs dividends). A corporate tax hike is definitely specifically aimed at the top 10%.

Literally all the high earners I know are incorporated and are invoicing companies for their time
post 1636910443 04-23-2021, 09:57 AM
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#8170
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Originally Posted By Destor
A corporate tax hike would be bad news for a lot of high earners without even mentioning big companies. Many high earners (good engineers, doctors, lawyers etc) are working through individual corporations and are subject to corporate tax rates along with whatever method they use to pay themselves (salary vs dividends). A corporate tax hike is definitely specifically aimed at the top 10%.

Literally all the high earners I know are incorporated and are invoicing companies for their time
I think a lot of those people you mentioned use pass through entities for tax purposes, not corporate tax filing status.

Btw I’m done posting on investing I think, I have eaten my humble pie regarding the call fiasco, and I don’t really have many plans involving investing in equities for the near term. I’ll plan to hold my Palantir holdings for years, and will generally just broadly invest in ETFs going forward. If we see a significant market pullback or more so a crash 35% plus, I’ll significantly get more interested in equities.

Best of luck to all.

If you want any career/life advice feel free to message.

Anyone interested in the underlying investment thesis on Palantir can look through the fall/winter 2020 posts.

Lastly, a humorous thing is how much I got dogged on for my conviction with WFC and Vale, which was most of my portfolio prior to Palantir.

If someone followed the advice and got into WFC in the low $20’s, I think they’ll be very happy with the 8%+ yield they’ll get on that in 2 years and the equity price appreciation, same goes for anyone that went in on Vale in the $8-$10 range.
post 1636913113 04-23-2021, 10:41 AM
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#8171
  1. MinisterOfLust
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ARVL is finally moving
post 1636913473 04-23-2021, 10:46 AM
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#8172
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Originally Posted By Arem24
I think a lot of those people you mentioned use pass through entities for tax purposes, not corporate tax filing status.
For the people I know personally, we report revenue and such like any other corporation and file corporate taxes on revenue and then personal taxes on income drawn down from the company. But I imagine there are a bunch of different setups, this is only my first year doing it so am learning along the way.
post 1636913533 04-23-2021, 10:47 AM
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#8173
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Originally Posted By Destor
A corporate tax hike would be bad news for a lot of high earners without even mentioning big companies. Many high earners (good engineers, doctors, lawyers etc) are working through individual corporations and are subject to corporate tax rates along with whatever method they use to pay themselves (salary vs dividends). A corporate tax hike is definitely specifically aimed at the top 10%.

Literally all the high earners I know are incorporated and are invoicing companies for their time
Originally Posted By Arem24
I think a lot of those people you mentioned use pass through entities for tax purposes, not corporate tax filing status.

Btw I’m done posting on investing I think, I have eaten my humble pie regarding the call fiasco, and I don’t really have many plans involving investing in equities for the near term. I’ll plan to hold my Palantir holdings for years, and will generally just broadly invest in ETFs going forward. If we see a significant market pullback or more so a crash 35% plus, I’ll significantly get more interested in equities.

Best of luck to all.

If you want any career/life advice feel free to message.

Anyone interested in the underlying investment thesis on Palantir can look through the fall/winter 2020 posts.

Lastly, a humorous thing is how much I got dogged on for my conviction with WFC and Vale, which was most of my portfolio prior to Palantir.

If someone followed the advice and got into WFC in the low $20’s, I think they’ll be very happy with the 8%+ yield they’ll get on that in 2 years and the equity price appreciation, same goes for anyone that went in on Vale in the $8-$10 range.
This - if the ppl you mention are incorporated, they are likely taxed as an S corp, which is not subject to the C corp tax rates and simply passes through the income to the owners (lots of high earner, self employed professionals do S corp because you can make a play against the self employment (FICA etc.) taxes by paying yourself less in salary and more in dividends). Other closely held small business are usually taxed as LLCs, which (assuming they elect to be taxed as partnerships) just pass through income to the owners and are taxed at the owners own rates (subject to that 199A deduction for pass through income they added in the 2017 tax stuff -- will be interesting to see what Biden does with that).

Very few small businesses taxed as C corps.
mo e
post 1636914583 04-23-2021, 11:01 AM
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#8174
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RIP if you guys didnt buy the PLTR dip.
post 1636917823 04-23-2021, 11:39 AM
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#8175
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Originally Posted By topperstyle
Ty algos for green day
this...

someone changed a value yesterday in the algos config after biden news and that is why we had the sell off but now that "is balanced" it keeps operating as normal based on know info

i have been reading about this a lot lately - I wish I knew someone within those departments lol

edit: I am going to code something this weekend against webull api or RH just to see what is there...
"Paper money is going away" - EM
post 1636919573 04-23-2021, 12:00 PM
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#8176
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you guys not aware that there is no longer some guy sitting at desk hitting sell button when headline hits right?

its all
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorithmic_trading

there are stops built it as soon some even happens sell or buy goes.

its why yesterday everything dropped under millisecond

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-frequency_trading

we are always at mercy of those guys.



today market responded strongly better than most anticipated

yesterday might been fake out on purpose. to shake bit of noobs out.

investors that had calls yesterday that expire today got wrecked
post 1636920183 04-23-2021, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted By mulletwarrior
This - if the ppl you mention are incorporated, they are likely taxed as an S corp, which is not subject to the C corp tax rates and simply passes through the income to the owners (lots of high earner, self employed professionals do S corp because you can make a play against the self employment (FICA etc.) taxes by paying yourself less in salary and more in dividends). Other closely held small business are usually taxed as LLCs, which (assuming they elect to be taxed as partnerships) just pass through income to the owners and are taxed at the owners own rates (subject to that 199A deduction for pass through income they added in the 2017 tax stuff -- will be interesting to see what Biden does with that).

Very few small businesses taxed as C corps.
This might be a difference in the way things are set up in Canada versus the US, we definitely pay corporate taxes in Canada when working as an individual through a corporation. We file a T2 for corporate taxes and then personal income is taxed on whatever you draw from the business and at differing rates depending on whether you pay yourself a salary or grossed-up dividends.
post 1636920973 04-23-2021, 12:16 PM
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#8178
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i think people forgot what a green day looks like. we're so used to red every day lol. i know i did

we might even get another green day tomorrow who knows.
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post 1636921153 04-23-2021, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted By smashedurgfx10
i think people forgot what a green day looks like. we're so used to red every day lol. i know i did

we might even get another green day tomorrow who knows.
It’s Friday tho
post 1636921563 04-23-2021, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted By Duckliver
It’s Friday tho
Least it won't be red.
"The dildo of consequences rarely arrives lubed."

See OptimusTrajan' sig
post 1636921713 04-23-2021, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted By Destor
This might be a difference in the way things are set up in Canada versus the US, we definitely pay corporate taxes in Canada when working as an individual through a corporation. We file a T2 for corporate taxes and then personal income is taxed on whatever you draw from the business and at differing rates depending on whether you pay yourself a salary or grossed-up dividends.
Haha oh there definitely probably is. Think the discussion was about Biden's proposals re the U.S. tax code and the effect on business in the U.S.
mo e
post 1636922143 04-23-2021, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted By Duckliver
It’s Friday tho
touche sir
Originally Posted By xxAchillesxx
Least it won't be red.
this guy knows
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post 1636922153 04-23-2021, 12:34 PM
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green day feels good
post 1636922163 04-23-2021, 12:34 PM
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I don't think the tax thing will be too severe a catalyst to the downside for a couple of reasons:

1. I doubt this thing will pass given big business loves Dems but hate taxes. It would hurt the Dems' donor base

2. Even if it does pass (I sure as phuck hope it does not), I think more people are realizing that cash is trash and it's still better to hold a stake in companies that generate more and more cash (i.e. an index fund) than put it in a CD/Gov bond and be guaranteed a negative return. If the long-run return of the market is 10%, which nets to around 7% post-tax under current laws, even 5% (i.e. 10% * 0.5) is still better than the aforementioned fixed income instruments.

Yeah, it would suck if it passes, but would you rather be guaranteed a negative real return or at least eek out at least a modest 5% return in a diversified portfolio that will compound over time? I'd bet on the later and therefore that capital will continue to move to stonks long-term.
post 1636922193 04-23-2021, 12:34 PM
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China doesn't mess around

time for update from Tesla to disable autopilot in china

Teslas reportedly being stopped from driving on the highway by police in Chinese megacity

https://electrek.co/2021/04/23/tesla...nese-megacity/
post 1636924323 04-23-2021, 01:09 PM
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geeen af today thanks to amc and eth

#megusta
"Paper money is going away" - EM
post 1636924343 04-23-2021, 01:09 PM
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#8187
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daily chart on SPY is insane.

gonna hit ath $318 eod.
post 1636924383 04-23-2021, 01:09 PM
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Biden is implementing a key step to the Great Reset - destroying the middle class
post 1636924453 04-23-2021, 01:11 PM
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#8189
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Originally Posted By Carbonfibre
China doesn't mess around

time for update from Tesla to disable autopilot in china

Teslas reportedly being stopped from driving on the highway by police in Chinese megacity

https://electrek.co/2021/04/23/tesla...nese-megacity/
usa needs to start playing tit for tat with china... js
"Paper money is going away" - EM
post 1636925613 04-23-2021, 01:30 PM
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#8190
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Originally Posted By camaleom
usa needs to start playing tit for tat with china... js
There is no USA thanks to Xiden
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