Thread: So vaccine was pointless
09-03-2022, 08:11 PM
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#211
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Originally Posted By Paul
The mRNA can't affect your DNA. It never gets into the nucleus. And the spike protein fragments made by the cells are a non issue. What makes a small number of ppl sick in response to vaccinations is things like allergies, cytokine responses flaring up RA, inflammatory responses worsening ITP, issues associated with elevated nonspecific defenses, etc.People don't seem to understand why mRNA "vaccines" are a problem. Unlike traditional vaccines, which contain a deactivated virus, that provoke the body into creating antibodies to kill the virus, these mRNA "vaccines" teach your body how to build the dangerous spike proteins and release them into your body. In theory, that would provoke your body to create antibodies to kill any of the virus present in your body and the mRNA would remain otherwise inert until it degrades within a few days. However, if your cells malfunction and never cease creating these spike proteins, it's the same as if you were being continually exposed to the virus. At some point your body can't keep up with the needed production of antibodies and these spike proteins (created by your cells) go coursing through your body unhindered, no different than if they were delivered by the virus, reeking damage as they go. Here's the kicker... the pro-vax crowd claims that your cells cannot EVER integrate those mRNA protein building instructions into your DNA, but that is completely false, as shown in Pfizer's own data here:
https://www.tga.gov.au/sites/default...oi-2389-06.pdf
If you go to page 34. the first image is showing you transfection, how effectively the different vaccine constructs were effecting the cells..(entering the cells). When just the RNA itself was used (the black bar) the other (grey bar is the vaccine within a lipid molecule (the RNA encapsulated). Now lets move to page 35..
Page 35 shows Spike Protein inside the nucleus. Start with the top column..cells that were transfected with the vaccine 1st column(blue)..stains nuclei..where the genetic material is being housed..the next column is antibodies being tagged..attaching to proteins in the endoplasmic reticulum.the 3rd column showing you spike protein is present everywhere in the cell..the last column is the merge..blue showing nuclei is present within the cell, red representing endoplasmic reticulum, green, representing the spike protein, the yellow is an overlapping signal of the red (ER) and the green (spike protein), the vast majority of ER is showing yellow, meaning spike protein is being produced actively..you can also see green signal only in the nucleus..we are talking about only vaccinated spike protein..just as the Sweedish study showed.
see the problem now?
See why CDC changed their website info this week as discussed earlier ITT?
https://www.tga.gov.au/sites/default...oi-2389-06.pdf
If you go to page 34. the first image is showing you transfection, how effectively the different vaccine constructs were effecting the cells..(entering the cells). When just the RNA itself was used (the black bar) the other (grey bar is the vaccine within a lipid molecule (the RNA encapsulated). Now lets move to page 35..
Page 35 shows Spike Protein inside the nucleus. Start with the top column..cells that were transfected with the vaccine 1st column(blue)..stains nuclei..where the genetic material is being housed..the next column is antibodies being tagged..attaching to proteins in the endoplasmic reticulum.the 3rd column showing you spike protein is present everywhere in the cell..the last column is the merge..blue showing nuclei is present within the cell, red representing endoplasmic reticulum, green, representing the spike protein, the yellow is an overlapping signal of the red (ER) and the green (spike protein), the vast majority of ER is showing yellow, meaning spike protein is being produced actively..you can also see green signal only in the nucleus..we are talking about only vaccinated spike protein..just as the Sweedish study showed.
see the problem now?
See why CDC changed their website info this week as discussed earlier ITT?
That's not what p 35 shows at all you braindead retard. It is showing that it doesn't enter the nucleus. It gets processed in the ER.
09-03-2022, 08:24 PM
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This is what jabcels are latching onto now? Omicron changed everything brahs.
The new variant changed the Science even though everybody knew the virus was going to mutate.
Time to get the omicron specific booster that's coming out that has only been tested on like 8 rats.
fking lol @ jabcels.
The new variant changed the Science even though everybody knew the virus was going to mutate.
Time to get the omicron specific booster that's coming out that has only been tested on like 8 rats.
fking lol @ jabcels.
09-03-2022, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted By fistnazis4fun⏩
No... again..look at the blue showing nuclei is present within the cell, red representing endoplasmic reticulum, green, representing the spike protein, the yellow is an overlapping signal of the red (ER) and the green (spike protein), the vast majority of ER is showing yellow, meaning spike protein is being produced actively..you can also see green signal only in the nucleus.The mRNA can't affect your DNA. It never gets into the nucleus. And the spike protein fragments made by the cells are a non issue. What makes a small number of ppl sick in response to vaccinations is things like allergies, cytokine responses flaring up RA, inflammatory responses worsening ITP, issues associated with elevated nonspecific defenses, etc.
That's not what p 35 shows at all you braindead retard. It is showing that it doesn't enter the nucleus. It gets processed in the ER.
That's not what p 35 shows at all you braindead retard. It is showing that it doesn't enter the nucleus. It gets processed in the ER.
It's color coded for you
09-03-2022, 08:30 PM
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#214
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I caught the killer virus and damn I’m here to tell you it was the worst 4 days I’ve ever
Had. Those sniffles were mind boggling. Btw I’m 70 and in the killer virus group. This was a total scam which many of us knew from the start. It did show the government though how easy it is to control the masses. Just a big social experiment….
Had. Those sniffles were mind boggling. Btw I’m 70 and in the killer virus group. This was a total scam which many of us knew from the start. It did show the government though how easy it is to control the masses. Just a big social experiment….
If you don't get what you want you didn't want it bad enough
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09-03-2022, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Well said, post edited.Imagine being on the intellectual level that deems calling people "braindead retards" conducive to scientific discussion.
Same goes for you.
Imagine running on the narrative of "mRNA is great because it is very adaptable" and still having the vaccine based on the original strain - two years later!

Same goes for you.

Imagine running on the narrative of "mRNA is great because it is very adaptable" and still having the vaccine based on the original strain - two years later!

to the topic..
SARS–CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair and Inhibits V(D)J Recombination In Vitro
https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/13/10/2056
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8538446/
09-03-2022, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted By Paul
You realize cells exist in 3 dimensions, right? If S1 were doing chit to your DNA, you'd see strong overlap with the blue stain. You don't. It's getting processed in the ER, as the paper says.No... again..look at the blue showing nuclei is present within the cell, red representing endoplasmic reticulum, green, representing the spike protein, the yellow is an overlapping signal of the red (ER) and the green (spike protein), the vast majority of ER is showing yellow, meaning spike protein is being produced actively..you can also see green signal only in the nucleus.
It's color coded for you
It's color coded for you
09-03-2022, 09:36 PM
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#217
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Originally Posted By fistnazis4fun⏩
you are looking at the non-transfected..look at the top row,green and yellowYou realize cells exist in 3 dimensions, right? If S1 were doing chit to your DNA, you'd see strong overlap with the blue stain. You don't. It's getting processed in the ER, as the paper says.
09-03-2022, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted By HMFIC_BROWSIN⏩
sketchy as ****. sounds like they agreed with the original 2 dose series but disagreed with the boosters.December of 2021.
Here's a good timeline:
they have also done interviews regarding their departure.
but, pharma sponsors CNN, and biden was president.... so it was completely burried.
Here's a good timeline:
they have also done interviews regarding their departure.
but, pharma sponsors CNN, and biden was president.... so it was completely burried.
also seems like the majority of america disagrees with the boosters too lmao since almost nobody has gotten one. i can't believe they think they're gonna give out 2nd and 3rd boosters. nobody is going to take those
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09-03-2022, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
well that's more a function of the FDA being weirdly choosy with what they care about testing-wise. they'll approve the BA.5 booster with just animal testing (as far as i am aware) but they say it can only be a booster, not a primary vaccine.... because it hasn't been tested as a primary vaccine? wtf? they haven't run a trial for humans for it as a booster either. makes literally no sense.Imagine running on the narrative of "mRNA is great because it is very adaptable" and still having the vaccine based on the original strain - two years later!

i'm sure pfizer would have no problem updating the mRNA vax every single day and putting it in vending machines.
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09-03-2022, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted By Paul
Is their any data that shows when the body stops producing the "spike protein"? This is what's extremely concerning to me.No... again..look at the blue showing nuclei is present within the cell, red representing endoplasmic reticulum, green, representing the spike protein, the yellow is an overlapping signal of the red (ER) and the green (spike protein), the vast majority of ER is showing yellow, meaning spike protein is being produced actively..you can also see green signal only in the nucleus.
It's color coded for you
It's color coded for you
09-03-2022, 11:01 PM
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Jabcels on suicide watch ITT
09-03-2022, 11:05 PM
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#222
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Originally Posted By BlackHeart.au⏩
I don’t think there is, which is why the CDC changed their website this week regarding this.Is their any data that shows when the body stops producing the "spike protein"? This is what's extremely concerning to me.
I posted in another thread and linked the original CDC page of spike protein being out of body within a short amount of time.
No telling how long it stays in now
09-03-2022, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted By Paul
there definitely are studies with radiolabelled antigen, and mRNA in general isn't supposed to stick around very long, so i'd think for most people it's not very long -- and also, CD8+ T cells will literally kill any cell they come across producing spike. but i think some of the recent studies that found antigen and mRNA in the lymphatic system for quite a bit longer than expected are part of what prompted the CDC to remove that **** from their website. if i had to guess, personally, the evidence seems to point to "well it's likely gone quickly in most people, but for some people, it's around longer than we expected, and we can't say how long" lolI don’t think there is, which is why the CDC changed their website this week regarding this.
I posted in another thread and linked the original CDC page of spike protein being out of body within a short amount of time.
No telling how long it stays in now
I posted in another thread and linked the original CDC page of spike protein being out of body within a short amount of time.
No telling how long it stays in now
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09-03-2022, 11:57 PM
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#224
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Originally Posted By JUSA⏩
I laid down the PhD fraud challenge where I would get the official transcript and take a spoon pic as long you paid the $40 fee to procure it, as the accuser needs to shoulder the burden here. You welshed out on the challenge and ran, tail tucked firmly between legs.You lie about your education and you lie about being in a relationship with a very average older single mother.
You.
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Pussy.
Back off, Warchild.
Seriously.
09-04-2022, 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted By NextPound⏩
Lol this is just stupid.Can you explain to me why I didn’t get Covid up until now? Has to be pure chance right? Except that I was around a bunch of cases, and I was going to restaurants weekly after my first shots, back in the gym. Have gone to sporting events, concerts, church etc. My kids were in private school around tons of other kids and played on sports teams.
Explain why I got covid now instead of the two years prior? You cant.
Explain why I got covid now instead of the two years prior? You cant.
My wife had the rona a month ago. Was down for a fukkin week and in rough shape. I was in the car with her , my daughter , and my mom in law and sis in law for hours while she was coming down with it, then with her all night before she tested positive the next day. Her mom and sis tested positive the day after and both went down like sacks of sh*t for over a week. All of them vaxxed and boosted.
The only ones unvaxxed are myself and my daughter….and we got nothing. Nada . Not even a hint of the sniffles while I was babysitting all 3 of those sick cases in my house for 8 days.
“How do you explain that? You can’t”
09-04-2022, 03:13 AM
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Originally Posted By Bodhy⏩
No fake PhD is going to redeem you from the depths of chit smearing and tranny fking.I laid down the PhD fraud challenge where I would get the official transcript and take a spoon pic as long you paid the $40 fee to procure it, as the accuser needs to shoulder the burden here. You welshed out on the challenge and ran, tail tucked firmly between legs.
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09-04-2022, 04:02 AM
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it wasnt pointless for big pharma
they made over $100 billion each, and have since bought a ton of other legit medical research companies. so they will next lobby to get their drugs pushed through too
tons of profits to be made
they made over $100 billion each, and have since bought a ton of other legit medical research companies. so they will next lobby to get their drugs pushed through too
tons of profits to be made
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09-04-2022, 04:06 AM
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09-04-2022, 04:31 AM
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#229
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Originally Posted By Paul
thats has to be an error in termspf how many people have had it , something like 90% of Uk adults have antibodies now
09-04-2022, 08:00 AM
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#230
Originally Posted By Paul
I don’t think there is, which is why the CDC changed their website this week regarding this.
I posted in another thread and linked the original CDC page of spike protein being out of body within a short amount of time.
No telling how long it stays in now
I posted in another thread and linked the original CDC page of spike protein being out of body within a short amount of time.
No telling how long it stays in now
Originally Posted By cramer1995⏩
This should be very very easy to test for. I wouldn't hold your breath that the study will be done in the US though. Or if it is done in the US it would probably be done in secret and not reported to the public.there definitely are studies with radiolabelled antigen, and mRNA in general isn't supposed to stick around very long,so i'd think for most people it's not very long -- and also, CD8+ T cells will literally kill any cell they come across producing spike. but i think some of the recent studies that found antigen and mRNA in the lymphatic system for quite a bit longer than expected are part of what prompted the CDC to remove that **** from their website. if i had to guess, personally, the evidence seems to point to "well it's likely gone quickly in most people, but for some people, it's around longer than we expected, and we can't say how long" lol
Originally Posted By EdwardTheGreat⏩
From Pfizer's own original study that they gave to the FDA seeking approval being infected/symptomatically ill with covid was reported as an effect of getting the shots. The best hypothesis I saw about that was the immune system is briefly lowered after the injection making one more susceptible for some time than people who did not get the shot at all. Then after that window in theory you have higher immunity, again, for some time.Lol this is just stupid.
My wife had the rona a month ago. Was down for a fukkin week and in rough shape. I was in the car with her , my daughter , and my mom in law and sis in law for hours while she was coming down with it, then with her all night before she tested positive the next day. Her mom and sis tested positive the day after and both went down like sacks of sh*t for over a week. All of them vaxxed and boosted.
The only ones unvaxxed are myself and my daughter….and we got nothing. Nada . Not even a hint of the sniffles while I was babysitting all 3 of those sick cases in my house for 8 days.
“How do you explain that? You can’t”
My wife had the rona a month ago. Was down for a fukkin week and in rough shape. I was in the car with her , my daughter , and my mom in law and sis in law for hours while she was coming down with it, then with her all night before she tested positive the next day. Her mom and sis tested positive the day after and both went down like sacks of sh*t for over a week. All of them vaxxed and boosted.
The only ones unvaxxed are myself and my daughter….and we got nothing. Nada . Not even a hint of the sniffles while I was babysitting all 3 of those sick cases in my house for 8 days.
“How do you explain that? You can’t”
How the shots appeared to work in practice:
- get the shot and be more likely to get covid for at least 2 weeks post injection
- be considered "fully vaccinated" 30 days after the second injection
- but then protection/effectiveness drops off rapidly [90 days maybe?]
- some time past 90 days the effect goes from protective to negative, meaning more likely to be infected, more likely to suffer serious illness and be hospitalized
- solution: boosters to try and bump up protection again, however protective effects from boosters lose effectiveness even more rapidly than what was offered by the first round of shots + the amount of severe adverse events/vaccine injury and/or death increases with each additional dose
At this point if you support the shots I believe you are either brainwashed, very stupid, or morally compromised in some way.- get the shot and be more likely to get covid for at least 2 weeks post injection
- be considered "fully vaccinated" 30 days after the second injection
- but then protection/effectiveness drops off rapidly [90 days maybe?]
- some time past 90 days the effect goes from protective to negative, meaning more likely to be infected, more likely to suffer serious illness and be hospitalized
- solution: boosters to try and bump up protection again, however protective effects from boosters lose effectiveness even more rapidly than what was offered by the first round of shots + the amount of severe adverse events/vaccine injury and/or death increases with each additional dose
Originally Posted By Paul
Curious when that was done. And agree that the percentage that had covid can't be correct, but perhaps it should say percentage that "tested positive for covid".
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09-04-2022, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted By katya422⏩
So all the doctors and biologists are stupid, brainwashed, or immoral according to you. It's all a huge conspiracy. The thousands of people involved in making and testing the vaccines were all in on it.This should be very very easy to test for. I wouldn't hold your breath that the study will be done in the US though. Or if it is done in the US it would probably be done in secret and not reported to the public.
From Pfizer's own original study that they gave to the FDA seeking approval being infected/symptomatically ill with covid was reported as an effect of getting the shots. The best hypothesis I saw about that was the immune system is briefly lowered after the injection making one more susceptible for some time than people who did not get the shot at all. Then after that window in theory you have higher immunity, again, for some time.
At this point if you support the shots I believe you are either brainwashed, very stupid, or morally compromised in some way.
Curious when that was done. And agree that the percentage that had covid can't be correct, but perhaps it should say percentage that "tested positive for covid".
From Pfizer's own original study that they gave to the FDA seeking approval being infected/symptomatically ill with covid was reported as an effect of getting the shots. The best hypothesis I saw about that was the immune system is briefly lowered after the injection making one more susceptible for some time than people who did not get the shot at all. Then after that window in theory you have higher immunity, again, for some time.
At this point if you support the shots I believe you are either brainwashed, very stupid, or morally compromised in some way.
Curious when that was done. And agree that the percentage that had covid can't be correct, but perhaps it should say percentage that "tested positive for covid".
Isn't there another possibility here?
And anyone with a basic understanding of chemistry understands how unstable and rapidly degraded RNA is.
09-04-2022, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted By NextPound⏩
It's the same argument they use against global warming. This is the result of decades of funded disinformation campaigns. We now have a public with absolutely no understanding of science. Who knows where we will be in 2 generations? Probably resembling something like Afghanistan if we don't blow ourselves up in nuclear war.She is more nuts than the rest of them.
GG conspiracy theorists. I accept your apology.
GG conspiracy theorists. I accept your apology.
09-04-2022, 08:21 AM
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#233
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Originally Posted By fistnazis4fun⏩
Best you can hope for is Russia nukes the East coast, China the West coast, leaving the based red states to repopulateIt's the same argument they use against global warming. This is the result of decades of funded disinformation campaigns. We now have a public with absolutely no understanding of science. Who knows where we will be in 2 generations? Probably resembling something like Afghanistan if we don't blow ourselves up in nuclear war.
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09-04-2022, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted By NextPound⏩
Oh I agree. The #1 issue rn to deal with is to restore relations between great powers before we get ww3. That being said, climate change is definitely a problem, and one we are poorly equipped to solve.There is climate change. Not with you on this one though. Plenty of other more important issues to address first.
09-04-2022, 08:34 AM
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#235
Originally Posted By fistnazis4fun⏩
No. That is not what I said. I said that anyone who still supports the mRNA treatments is stupid, brainwashed, or morally compromised.So all the doctors and biologists are stupid, brainwashed, or immoral according to you. It's all a huge conspiracy. The thousands of people involved in making and testing the vaccines were all in on it.
That group does NOT include "all the doctors and biologists". The publicly touted consensus is fake or in some cases coerced.
Originally Posted By fistnazis4fun⏩
Wincel you were conned. I know that is hard to take in, that your precious science is no more pure than any other human based institution- fallible.Isn't there another possibility here?
And anyone with a basic understanding of chemistry understands how unstable and rapidly degraded RNA is.
And anyone with a basic understanding of chemistry understands how unstable and rapidly degraded RNA is.
You shouldn't beat yourself up too badly about it. There was a massive orchestrated campaign to sway public opinion and behavior. You too are only human and that's okay.
But it is time to drop your rose colored glasses and face reality. Because it is out there. So many people everyday sharing that someone has "died suddenly".
They ran a huge unethical experiment and the results are coming in and the results are very very bad.
The shots don't use normal mRNA. They use an altered fake mRNA instead because they wanted something that was more durable and harder for the body to break down. That was done intentionally.
ETA: This study is peer reviewed and published now re: Severe Adverse Effects.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...64410X22010283
Pfizer and Moderna mRNA COVID-19 vaccines were associated with an excess risk of serious adverse events of special interest of 10.1 and 15.1 per 10,000 vaccinated over placebo baselines of 17.6 and 42.2. Combined, the mRNA vaccines were associated with an excess risk of serious adverse events of special interest of 12.5 per 10,000 vaccinated; risk ratio 1.43. The Pfizer trial exhibited a 36 % higher risk of serious adverse events in the vaccine group; risk difference 18.0 per 10,000 vaccinated; risk ratio 1.36. The Moderna trial exhibited a 6 % higher risk of serious adverse events in the vaccine group: risk difference 7.1 per 10,000; risk ratio 1.06. Combined, there was a 16 % higher risk of serious adverse events in mRNA vaccine recipients: risk difference 13.2; risk ratio 1.16.
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09-04-2022, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted By katya422⏩
No it isn't. The consensus is absolutely clear on this. If you trust people from AFD/FLCCC, I have a bridge to sell you.No. That is not what I said. I said that anyone who still supports the mRNA treatments is stupid, brainwashed, or morally compromised.
That group does NOT include "all the doctors and biologists". The publicly touted consensus is fake or in some cases coerced.
Wincel you were conned. I know that is hard to take in, that your precious science is no more pure than any other human based institution- fallible.
You shouldn't beat yourself up to badly about it. There was a massive orchestrated campaign to sway public opinion and behavior. You too are only human and that's okay.
But it is time to drop your rose colored glasses and face reality. Because it is out there. So many people everyday sharing that someone has "died suddenly".
They ran a huge unethical experiment and the results are coming in and the results are very very bad.
The shots don't use normal mRNA. They use an altered fake mRNA instead because they wanted something that was more durable and harder for the body to break down. That was done intentionally.
That group does NOT include "all the doctors and biologists". The publicly touted consensus is fake or in some cases coerced.
Wincel you were conned. I know that is hard to take in, that your precious science is no more pure than any other human based institution- fallible.
You shouldn't beat yourself up to badly about it. There was a massive orchestrated campaign to sway public opinion and behavior. You too are only human and that's okay.
But it is time to drop your rose colored glasses and face reality. Because it is out there. So many people everyday sharing that someone has "died suddenly".
They ran a huge unethical experiment and the results are coming in and the results are very very bad.
The shots don't use normal mRNA. They use an altered fake mRNA instead because they wanted something that was more durable and harder for the body to break down. That was done intentionally.
I haven't been conned of anything. My precious science?
A more durable RNA? Are you serious? You understand why RNA is unstable right? Have you ever taken ochem?
09-04-2022, 08:58 AM
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#237
Originally Posted By fistnazis4fun⏩
Wincel the "science" aka: Fauci, the FDA, CDC, etc. are a pack of liars. They lie and lie and lie until they run out of breath. Then after they inhale they lie some more.No it isn't. The consensus is absolutely clear on this. If you trust people from AFD/FLCCC, I have a bridge to sell you.
I haven't been conned of anything. My precious science?
A more durable RNA? Are you serious? You understand why RNA is unstable right? Have you ever taken ochem?
I haven't been conned of anything. My precious science?
A more durable RNA? Are you serious? You understand why RNA is unstable right? Have you ever taken ochem?
These shots were BS from the start- never that great and they KNEW that many people would suffer negative health effects and they simply did not give a single f*ck.

Link:
https://brownstone.org/articles/real...sly-estimated/
The mRNA WAS altered. It is a matter of public record. You don't have to take organic chemistry to learn how to read.
You were lied to. The institution that you trusted have been hollowed out and corrupted beyond redemption.
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09-04-2022, 09:14 AM
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#238
- fistnazis4fun
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- fistnazis4fun
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Originally Posted By katya422⏩
Do you know what Brownstone is Katya? You're talking about institutions corrupted beyond redemption, look no further than right there. A think tank formed last year with an explicit political agenda.Wincel the "science" aka: Fauci, the FDA, CDC, etc. are a pack of liars. They lie and lie and lie until they run out of breath. Then after they inhale they lie some more.
These shots were BS from the start- never that great and they KNEW that many people would suffer negative health effects and they simply did not give a single f*ck.

Link:
https://brownstone.org/articles/real...sly-estimated/
The mRNA WAS altered. It is a matter of public record. You don't have to take organic chemistry to learn how to read.
You were lied to. The institution that you trusted have been hollowed out and corrupted beyond redemption.
These shots were BS from the start- never that great and they KNEW that many people would suffer negative health effects and they simply did not give a single f*ck.

Link:
https://brownstone.org/articles/real...sly-estimated/
The mRNA WAS altered. It is a matter of public record. You don't have to take organic chemistry to learn how to read.
You were lied to. The institution that you trusted have been hollowed out and corrupted beyond redemption.
You do need ochem to understand why RNA is unstable though. And you do need to learn some biology and medicine to properly evaluate what you read.
BTW neither Fauci nor the FDA/CDC represent medical science as a whole. Fauci's/FDA's/CDC's job is to interpret the scientific literature and make recommendations on policy.
09-04-2022, 09:56 AM
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#239
Originally Posted By fistnazis4fun⏩
I'm pretty open about areas where I lack any particular expertise.Do you know what Brownstone is Katya? You're talking about institutions corrupted beyond redemption, look no further than right there. A think tank formed last year with an explicit political agenda.
You do need ochem to understand why RNA is unstable though. And you do need to learn some biology and medicine to properly evaluate what you read.
BTW neither Fauci nor the FDA/CDC represent medical science as a whole. Fauci's/FDA's/CDC's job is to interpret the scientific literature and make recommendations on policy.
You do need ochem to understand why RNA is unstable though. And you do need to learn some biology and medicine to properly evaluate what you read.
BTW neither Fauci nor the FDA/CDC represent medical science as a whole. Fauci's/FDA's/CDC's job is to interpret the scientific literature and make recommendations on policy.
The first part of the shots I recall being specifically concerned about was the lipid nano particles and I shared this article here:
https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/...vaccines/99/i8
^^^
This article is not anti-mRNA injection. It is supportive. But they discuss prior problems that were found with the use of these lipid shells.
The success of these COVID-19 vaccines is remarkable and was far from guaranteed. mRNA is incredibly delicate. Enzymes in the environment and in our bodies are quick to chop mRNA into pieces, making lab experiments difficult and the delivery of mRNA to our cells daunting. On top of that, mRNA strands are large and negatively charged and can’t simply waltz across the protective lipid membranes of cells. Many scientists thought the technology would never work.
“There were many, many skeptics,” says Frank DeRosa, who began working with mRNA in 2008 and is now chief technology officer at Translate Bio, a firm developing mRNA vaccines with Sanofi. “People used to say that if you looked at it wrong it would fall apart.”
Luckily, scientists found a solution. To protect the fragile molecule as it sneaks into cells, they turned to a delivery technology with origins older than the idea of mRNA therapy itself: tiny balls of fat called lipid nanoparticles, or LNPs.
This is problematic because in general using nanoparticles in humans is problematic- they can goeverywhereby virtue of their tiny size.“There were many, many skeptics,” says Frank DeRosa, who began working with mRNA in 2008 and is now chief technology officer at Translate Bio, a firm developing mRNA vaccines with Sanofi. “People used to say that if you looked at it wrong it would fall apart.”
Luckily, scientists found a solution. To protect the fragile molecule as it sneaks into cells, they turned to a delivery technology with origins older than the idea of mRNA therapy itself: tiny balls of fat called lipid nanoparticles, or LNPs.
Over more than 3 decades, promising lipids studied in the lab often failed to live up to their potential when tested in animals or humans. Positively charged lipids are inherently toxic, and companies struggled for years before landing on formulations that were safe and effective. When injected intravenously, the particles invariably accumulated in the liver, and delivery to other organs is still an obstacle. Reliably manufacturing consistent LNPs was another challenge, and producing the raw materials needed to make the particles is a limiting factor in the production of COVID-19 vaccines today.
LNP development has been a headache, but without this packaging, mRNA vaccines would be nothing. “It is the unsung hero of the whole thing,” says Giuseppe Ciaramella, who was head of infectious diseases at Moderna from 2014 to 2018.
"Inherently toxic" doesn't excite me. You?LNP development has been a headache, but without this packaging, mRNA vaccines would be nothing. “It is the unsung hero of the whole thing,” says Giuseppe Ciaramella, who was head of infectious diseases at Moderna from 2014 to 2018.
A solution came from new lipids that were charged only under certain conditions. During the late ’90s and through the first decade of the 2000s, Cullis, his colleagues at Inex Pharmaceuticals, and the Inex spin-off Protiva Biotherapeutics developed ionizable lipids that are positively charged at an acidic pH but neutral in the blood. The group also created a new way to manufacture nanoparticles with these lipids, using microfluidics to mix lipids dissolved in ethanol with nucleic acids dissolved in an acidic buffer. When the streams of those two solutions merged, the components spontaneously formed lipid nanoparticles, which, unlike the hollow liposomes, were densely packed with lipids and nucleic acids. The process was simple in theory, but getting the machine to reliably spit out consistent LNPs was difficult.
LNPs that looked good in the lab often floundered in the clinic, however.The first versions of ionizable lipids were still toxic. And early formulations of the nanoparticles didn’t degrade fast enough, causing them to accumulate after repeated injections.Protiva found that one of its experimental LNP therapies caused a more severe immune reaction in humans than it had in the lab, and the company pinned pegylated lipids as a major factor.
"Still toxic" and "accumulate after repeated injections". Tell me again about this story that we should keep getting boosters every few months.LNPs that looked good in the lab often floundered in the clinic, however.The first versions of ionizable lipids were still toxic. And early formulations of the nanoparticles didn’t degrade fast enough, causing them to accumulate after repeated injections.Protiva found that one of its experimental LNP therapies caused a more severe immune reaction in humans than it had in the lab, and the company pinned pegylated lipids as a major factor.

But PEG also has liabilities. It prevents LNPs from binding to proteins that help shuttle them into cells. Because PEG extends particles’ life span in the body, the immune system has more time to spot the particles and start mounting an antibody response.And although PEG is found in many cosmetic, drug, and food products, scientists hypothesize that some people could develop antibodies to PEG and that giving those individuals an injection of PEG-coated nanoparticles could trigger an anaphylactic reaction.
Yeah, it could kill some people...but, hey, gotta break a few eggs right?The groups made more than 300 ionizable lipids, first optimizing the fatty tails, then tweaking the ionizable head group and the linker region in between. The work was grueling, and lipids that made great nanoparticles in a petri dish would often flop in animal studies. “You can have 50 different ionizable lipids that all deliver effectively to cells in culture, and 49 of them won’t work a damn in vivo,” recalls Thomas Madden, who worked at Inex and is now CEO of Acuitas Therapeutics.
^^^Another company with a new approach. And it still killed off their animals when they moved to in vivo.
The most effective nanoparticles were ones that the body mistook as low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol—commonly called bad cholesterol. Proteins that recognize LDL cholesterol in the blood bound to some of Alnylam’s nanoparticles and carried them to LDL receptors on liver cells, which then caused the cells to engulf the nanoparticles in an endosome. It was the kind of complex interplay that studies in a petri dish missed.
^^^The LNPs that "worked" good enough at least are mistaken by the body for cholesterol and are taken to the liver. Who needs a healthy liver though?
Oh, wait, wasn't a liver cell study that found the shots were altering the DNA? Hmm...
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09-04-2022, 09:57 AM
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#240
[cont.]
Repeated dosage = Toxic!
mRNA alteration in another post...
Even some of the LNPs that worked well in animals proved too toxic for the repeated dosing required of many siRNA therapies. “The biggest issue was trying to find the right balance between systems that were effective but also safe and tolerable,” says Marian Gindy, executive director of pharmaceutical sciences at Merck & Co., who led the RNA formulation team from 2008 until Merck ended its siRNA programs in 2013. “And I would say that is still the biggest challenge in this area.”
^^^Repeated dosage = Toxic!
After realizing that MC3 wouldn’t cut it for mRNA delivery, Moderna invested significant resources into building a better ionizable lipid. “There was a group of chemists put on this right away to build novel cationic lipids,” says Ciaramella, the former head of infectious diseases at Moderna. “It is kind of like a small-molecule drug discovery engine, but on steroids.” The team made about 100 ionizable lipids and introduced ester linkages into the carbon chains of the lipids to help make them more biodegradable, he recalls. Tweaking the ratio of the four lipids in the nanoparticles altered the LNPs’ distribution in the body. “The devil is absolutely in the details as far as LNPs are concerned,” Ciaramella says. “But once you optimize it for one organ, you can change out the mRNA with minimal optimization.”
But details on how Moderna arrived at its optimal formulation in the first place are scant. The company did not grant an interview to talk about its nanoparticle development, and neither did Pfizer or BioNTech.For its COVID-19 vaccine, Moderna ultimately used an ionizable lipid that it calls SM-102, which it first described in a 2018 study on alternatives to MC3. Pfizer and BioNTech licensed an ionizable lipid called ALC-0315 from Acuitas.
Magic black box. It works now, okay? Safe and effective. We promise.But details on how Moderna arrived at its optimal formulation in the first place are scant. The company did not grant an interview to talk about its nanoparticle development, and neither did Pfizer or BioNTech.For its COVID-19 vaccine, Moderna ultimately used an ionizable lipid that it calls SM-102, which it first described in a 2018 study on alternatives to MC3. Pfizer and BioNTech licensed an ionizable lipid called ALC-0315 from Acuitas.
mRNA alteration in another post...
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