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Official Russia vs Ukraine Thread V- The winter is coming: A tale of stupid sanctions
09-13-2022, 08:33 PM
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#1951
Ahh here is what I was remembering:
https://sci-hub.se/https://www.jstor...table/40784564
So apparently, they didn't have concrete advanced knowledge, but Roosevelt vaguely expected something like this would happen and was taking steps to provoke it.
In the weeks following his meeting with Churchill, FDR used just such an
"incident" to announce his policy of escorting and "shoot on sight" in the
Atlantic. The details are as follows: on September 4, a U.S. destroyer, the Greer,
exchanged fire with a German submarine in the North Atlantic. The subma-
rine fired on the Greer only after being pursued for several hours and evading
depth charges from a British plane. As U.S. Navy officials reported to the pres-
ident on September 9, "Submarine was not seen by Greer hence there is no
positive evidence that the submarine knew nationality of ship at which it was
firing."108 In a fireside chat delivered on September 11, FDR deliberately dis-
torted the details of the incident. He claimed that the Greer' s identity as a U.S.
ship was unmistakable and that the German submarine fired first without
warning. He went on to outline a Nazi design to abolish the freedom of the
seas as a prelude to domination of the United States. Reminding his audience
that he had sought no shooting war with Hitler, FDR insisted nonetheless that
"when you see a rattlesnake poised to strike, you do not wait until he has
struck before you crush him."109 The president then announced that the U.S.
Navy would protect all merchant ships engaged in commerce in the North
Atlantic and that Axis ships would enter U.S. waters at their peril. The navy
began escorting convoys shortly thereafter.
This event wasn't enough to start our involvement in the war, but it establishes FDR's mindset. He was seeking to provoke action. The article discusses other circumstances as well. There is a strong case here."incident" to announce his policy of escorting and "shoot on sight" in the
Atlantic. The details are as follows: on September 4, a U.S. destroyer, the Greer,
exchanged fire with a German submarine in the North Atlantic. The subma-
rine fired on the Greer only after being pursued for several hours and evading
depth charges from a British plane. As U.S. Navy officials reported to the pres-
ident on September 9, "Submarine was not seen by Greer hence there is no
positive evidence that the submarine knew nationality of ship at which it was
firing."108 In a fireside chat delivered on September 11, FDR deliberately dis-
torted the details of the incident. He claimed that the Greer' s identity as a U.S.
ship was unmistakable and that the German submarine fired first without
warning. He went on to outline a Nazi design to abolish the freedom of the
seas as a prelude to domination of the United States. Reminding his audience
that he had sought no shooting war with Hitler, FDR insisted nonetheless that
"when you see a rattlesnake poised to strike, you do not wait until he has
struck before you crush him."109 The president then announced that the U.S.
Navy would protect all merchant ships engaged in commerce in the North
Atlantic and that Axis ships would enter U.S. waters at their peril. The navy
began escorting convoys shortly thereafter.
https://sci-hub.se/https://www.jstor...table/40784564
So apparently, they didn't have concrete advanced knowledge, but Roosevelt vaguely expected something like this would happen and was taking steps to provoke it.
09-13-2022, 08:41 PM
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#1952
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Originally Posted By chalup⏩
They are not "now" nor ever have been winning.Gambling the safety? We all gamble our safety every day we wake up. The fact you are mad that we have supported Ukraine, and they are now winning, speaks volumes about what we as Americans can do. Just a month ago you were talking about how Russia was walking unmolested in Ukraine and now here we are on the brink of Russia literally losing the war and you make idiotic post like this?
You were in the military/LE and you saythere is no winning. There is no justiceHow pathetic and skewed life you must live.
You were in the military/LE and you saythere is no winning. There is no justiceHow pathetic and skewed life you must live.
You're taking my posts out of context by saying Russia is unmolested. You're either not paying attention or lying but give you the benefit of the doubt which is You're mistaken. Unmolested was parked outside of the capital for weeks on end with no contact.
I'm not mad. You're very misguided and ignorant to the situation.
Again so you can understand. Ukraine has no option to win. Either this continues until Ukraine is ground away, our weapons impact Russia into escalation (already being called for) and Russia shows up in force to obliterate Ukraine, and/or this escalation grows into a world war.
There is no "we beat" your small force now go away. There is death at the current rate which is intended to kill the most Ukrainians or there is the next best option to kill as many Ukrainians renaming the SMO into an anti terror campaign or partial mobilization. I think the most death is the goal for the current track. War will make Ukraine quit.
I fear an anti terror campaign is next, God forbid.
So feel free as to how justice is provided. Justice isn't emotive and emotions are nowhere near valuable as life.
And yes gambling my countrymens safety. I don't approve personally
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09-13-2022, 08:42 PM
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#1953
And here is the part I meant by price of leadership chit.
We see this not only with our country lying about arming nazis, but with Russia lying that Ukraine is fully controlled by nazis. Each side is distorting reality to their own ends.
Finally, and perhaps most important, deception cannot be ruled out a
priori as contrary to the national interest. If he had not resorted to deception,
Roosevelt may not have been able to generate public consent for entry into
World War II; and if the United States had not entered the war, then Hitler may
have come to dominate Europe and to threaten the Western Hemisphere.139
More generally, in the event that the leadership and the public disagree over
the necessity of using force, deception may be justified when the leadership's
assessment of the threat environment is sounder than the public's. This is not
to deny that deception is costly. It is simply to say that deceiving may some-
times be less costly than not deceiving.
Leaders often lie to their own people to promote the national interest if the means to do so would otherwise be distasteful and unpopular.priori as contrary to the national interest. If he had not resorted to deception,
Roosevelt may not have been able to generate public consent for entry into
World War II; and if the United States had not entered the war, then Hitler may
have come to dominate Europe and to threaten the Western Hemisphere.139
More generally, in the event that the leadership and the public disagree over
the necessity of using force, deception may be justified when the leadership's
assessment of the threat environment is sounder than the public's. This is not
to deny that deception is costly. It is simply to say that deceiving may some-
times be less costly than not deceiving.
We see this not only with our country lying about arming nazis, but with Russia lying that Ukraine is fully controlled by nazis. Each side is distorting reality to their own ends.
09-13-2022, 08:44 PM
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#1954
Originally Posted By memcop⏩
Memcop plz check out the article I linked about FDR. It is worth a read.They are not "now" nor ever have been winning.
You're taking my posts out of context by saying Russia is unmolested. You're either not paying attention or lying but give you the benefit of the doubt which is You're mistaken. Unmolested was parked outside of the capital for weeks on end with no contact.
I'm not mad. You're very misguided and ignorant to the situation.
Again so you can understand. Ukraine has no option to win. Either this continues until Ukraine is ground away, our weapons impact Russia into escalation (already being called for) and Russia shows up in force to obliterate Ukraine, and/or this escalation grows into a world war.
There is no "we beat" your small force now go away. There is death at the current rate which is intended to kill the most Ukrainians or there is the next best option to kill as many Ukrainians renaming the SMO into an anti terror campaign or partial mobilization.
I fear an anti terror campaign is next, God forbid.
So feel free as to how justice is provided. Justice isn't emotive and emotions are nowhere near valuable as life.
You're taking my posts out of context by saying Russia is unmolested. You're either not paying attention or lying but give you the benefit of the doubt which is You're mistaken. Unmolested was parked outside of the capital for weeks on end with no contact.
I'm not mad. You're very misguided and ignorant to the situation.
Again so you can understand. Ukraine has no option to win. Either this continues until Ukraine is ground away, our weapons impact Russia into escalation (already being called for) and Russia shows up in force to obliterate Ukraine, and/or this escalation grows into a world war.
There is no "we beat" your small force now go away. There is death at the current rate which is intended to kill the most Ukrainians or there is the next best option to kill as many Ukrainians renaming the SMO into an anti terror campaign or partial mobilization.
I fear an anti terror campaign is next, God forbid.
So feel free as to how justice is provided. Justice isn't emotive and emotions are nowhere near valuable as life.
09-13-2022, 08:51 PM
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#1955
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Originally Posted By memcop⏩
Yeah, 'negotiate' your way to national genocide. Really smart plan.No nuke even referenced.
You guys keep going back to this whole thing about fairness. These dudes are out here getting smoked without an end in sight while gambling the safety of even where you're at now, nuclear, economic, etc. For what? The same poverty dots on the map that can be negotiated?
There is no winning. There is no justice.
You guys keep going back to this whole thing about fairness. These dudes are out here getting smoked without an end in sight while gambling the safety of even where you're at now, nuclear, economic, etc. For what? The same poverty dots on the map that can be negotiated?
There is no winning. There is no justice.
Nope. Ukrainians will win instead.
If it's still the old memcop operating the account, and not a Russian posting from Russia now, you better be thankful also because if Ukraine did not win then you'd be called up and going to one of many world war three battlefields that would be quickly developing. If Ukraine had lost then China'd be preparing a Taiwan invasion; and similar crap doing down involving North Korea-South Korea; Iran and its allies vs Israel and Saudi Arabia and others; conflict in South America with Venezuela. Ukraine making a fool of Russia with western aid has made all these other potential aggressors go wtf, no we better not bc we don't wanna get fkd up and embarassed and economically shredded like that either.
If it's still the old memcop operating the account, and not a Russian posting from Russia now, Ukraine are your heroes that possibly saved your life and those of your buddies.
09-13-2022, 08:53 PM
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#1956
Originally Posted By LukeLissen⏩
There is a third scenario, which is best for everyone: a settlement. No one wants Russia to dominate all of Ukraine. I don't even think Russia wants that. They'd have to deal with insurgencies.Yeah, 'negotiate' your way to national genocide. Really smart plan.
Nope. Ukrainians will win instead.
If it's the old memcop operating the account, and not a Russian posting from Russia now, you better be thankful also because if Ukraine did not win then you'd be called up and going to one of many world war three battlefields that would be quickly developing.
If it's the old memcop operating the account, and not a Russian posting from Russia now, Ukraine are your heroes that saved your life.
Nope. Ukrainians will win instead.
If it's the old memcop operating the account, and not a Russian posting from Russia now, you better be thankful also because if Ukraine did not win then you'd be called up and going to one of many world war three battlefields that would be quickly developing.
If it's the old memcop operating the account, and not a Russian posting from Russia now, Ukraine are your heroes that saved your life.
The Ukrainians are the ones seeking to eventually "cleanse" their lands of Russians, and I'm not just talking about invaders.
09-13-2022, 08:54 PM
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#1957
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Russians on record saying there is no such thing as a Ukranian.
Yeah....negotiate with that?
Yeah....negotiate with that?
“In addition to his other Asiatic characteristics, the Russian has no regard for human life and is an all out son of bitch, barbarian, and chronic drunk.”
-General George S. Patton
09-13-2022, 08:55 PM
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#1958
Originally Posted By terrorgunt⏩
They mean Ukraine, as it currently stands, is not a nation. There is too much of a divide.Russians on record saying there is no such thing as a Ukranian.
Yeah....negotiate with that?
Yeah....negotiate with that?
What is sad is we are starting to resemble them from around 20 years ago in our own polarization.
09-13-2022, 08:59 PM
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#1959
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Originally Posted By terrorgunt⏩
And they wonder why Ukraine banned Russian affiliates and protonates? And they use it as a ruse to justify a war against Ukraine? Imagine that. Ukraine has NEVER existed yet Poots has countless men that has died in UKRAINE that he can't answer for?Russians on record saying there is no such thing as a Ukranian.
Yeah....negotiate with that?
Yeah....negotiate with that?
Where is mother Russia at right now compared to Ukraine? Where the fuk do you think all the EU is going to send their military to train in the next 20 years? I'm ded.
09-13-2022, 09:12 PM
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#1960
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lmao, ppl here actually think Ukraine can WIN this war?? LMAO. absolute insanity. It's one thing to hold them off, but to win??? LMAOOOOOOO
09-13-2022, 09:15 PM
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#1961
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Originally Posted By terrorgunt⏩
They're correctRussians on record saying there is no such thing as a Ukranian.
Yeah....negotiate with that?
Yeah....negotiate with that?
There will be negotiations other than Zelensky's unconditional surrender
When Russia designates Ukraine as a terrorist nation even that may not be an option
“It’s the bill of rights, not the bill of requests. Rights are not up for negotiations.” Thomas Massie, MAGA enemy #1
09-13-2022, 09:19 PM
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#1962
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Originally Posted By ghostfacedup⏩
Your dumbass doesn't even know what a win to Ukraine looks like because Poots dik is so far up your ass LMAOlmao, ppl here actually think Ukraine can WIN this war?? LMAO. absolute insanity. It's one thing to hold them off, but to win??? LMAOOOOOOO
09-13-2022, 09:25 PM
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#1963
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Originally Posted By ghostfacedup⏩
never underestimate the power of propaganda, once ukriane is finished there will be a new current thing for people to put in their avatarslmao, ppl here actually think Ukraine can WIN this war?? LMAO. absolute insanity. It's one thing to hold them off, but to win??? LMAOOOOOOO
09-13-2022, 09:26 PM
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#1964
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Originally Posted By AlwaysFocus⏩
Wait I could have SWORE the current topic is how Trump is innocent of anything retarded he did?never underestimate the power of propaganda, once ukriane is finished there will be a new current thing for people to put in their avatars
Didn't idiots like yourself say the Ukraine war would become part of the past months ago?
09-13-2022, 09:27 PM
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#1965
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Originally Posted By ghostfacedup⏩
Define 'people'lmao, ppl here actually think Ukraine can WIN this war?? LMAO. absolute insanity. It's one thing to hold them off, but to win??? LMAOOOOOOO
“It’s the bill of rights, not the bill of requests. Rights are not up for negotiations.” Thomas Massie, MAGA enemy #1
09-13-2022, 09:30 PM
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#1966
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Originally Posted By Stizzel⏩
You telling me even you didn't realize the oxymoron in his post when he says "PEOPLE THINK UKRAINE WILL WIN, LULZ, BUT THEY MIGHT HOLD THEM OFF"Define 'people'
You really did get dropped on your head, right?
Do tell us Stizelle, what is a Ukrainian loss to you?
09-13-2022, 09:33 PM
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#1967
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Originally Posted By LukeLissen⏩
Thank you for your liberal CNN published response.Yeah, 'negotiate' your way to national genocide. Really smart plan.
Nope. Ukrainians will win instead.
If it's still the old memcop operating the account, and not a Russian posting from Russia now, you better be thankful also because if Ukraine did not win then you'd be called up and going to one of many world war three battlefields that would be quickly developing. If Ukraine had lost then China'd be preparing a Taiwan invasion; and similar crap doing down involving North Korea-South Korea; Iran and its allies vs Israel and Saudi Arabia and others; conflict in South America with Venezuela. Ukraine making a fool of Russia with western aid has made all these other potential aggressors go wtf, no we better not bc we don't wanna get fkd up and embarassed and economically shredded like that either.
If it's still the old memcop operating the account, and not a Russian posting from Russia now, Ukraine are your heroes that possibly saved your life and those of your buddies.
Nope. Ukrainians will win instead.
If it's still the old memcop operating the account, and not a Russian posting from Russia now, you better be thankful also because if Ukraine did not win then you'd be called up and going to one of many world war three battlefields that would be quickly developing. If Ukraine had lost then China'd be preparing a Taiwan invasion; and similar crap doing down involving North Korea-South Korea; Iran and its allies vs Israel and Saudi Arabia and others; conflict in South America with Venezuela. Ukraine making a fool of Russia with western aid has made all these other potential aggressors go wtf, no we better not bc we don't wanna get fkd up and embarassed and economically shredded like that either.
If it's still the old memcop operating the account, and not a Russian posting from Russia now, Ukraine are your heroes that possibly saved your life and those of your buddies.
Very thoughtful and oddly reminiscent of _______.
(enter war chant above)
Homerotic Modulator, Envious of Idiocy
09-13-2022, 09:37 PM
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#1968
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Post deleted by user
Original Ruckus
09-13-2022, 09:49 PM
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#1969
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Originally Posted By dabbmw2002⏩
You never answered his question; are you the original memcop or his Russia replacement? Your failure to address that question is very suspicious, Ivan.
Homerotic Modulator, Envious of Idiocy
09-13-2022, 09:55 PM
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#1970
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Originally Posted By chalup⏩
PainfulYou telling me even you didn't realize the oxymoron in his post when he says "PEOPLE THINK UKRAINE WILL WIN, LULZ, BUT THEY MIGHT HOLD THEM OFF"
You really did get dropped on your head, right?
Do tell us Stizelle, what is a Ukrainian loss to you?
You really did get dropped on your head, right?
Do tell us Stizelle, what is a Ukrainian loss to you?
“It’s the bill of rights, not the bill of requests. Rights are not up for negotiations.” Thomas Massie, MAGA enemy #1
09-13-2022, 10:48 PM
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#1971
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-62885151
Putin getting Xi's blessing before he drops a couple of deuces on Ukraine. And right after that, Xi will attack Taiwan. This is it bros. Time to clench your angus. Tour is fuking over.
Putin getting Xi's blessing before he drops a couple of deuces on Ukraine. And right after that, Xi will attack Taiwan. This is it bros. Time to clench your angus. Tour is fuking over.
09-14-2022, 01:43 AM
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#1972
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Originally Posted By Stizzel⏩
Lmfao sure vatnik what are your sources? Some obscure blog written by a schizo or russian ******** group?And yet Russia is still taking bakhmut
Looks like the muh offensive honeymoon is over already
Looks like the muh offensive honeymoon is over already
LOL at vatnik cope
09-14-2022, 01:54 AM
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#1973
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Vatnik Crew:
“In addition to his other Asiatic characteristics, the Russian has no regard for human life and is an all out son of bitch, barbarian, and chronic drunk.”
-General George S. Patton
09-14-2022, 01:55 AM
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#1974
09-14-2022, 01:56 AM
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#1975
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Originally Posted By vatn1k⏩
This is cope:u guys never have any counterarguments
Ukraine divided itself and is a failed state
cope
Ukraine divided itself and is a failed state
cope
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“In addition to his other Asiatic characteristics, the Russian has no regard for human life and is an all out son of bitch, barbarian, and chronic drunk.”
-General George S. Patton
09-14-2022, 01:56 AM
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#1976
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2 more weeks
09-14-2022, 01:58 AM
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#1977
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Originally Posted By ****inator⏩
This was the masterful PLAN tho brah..... Putin has em' now!“In addition to his other Asiatic characteristics, the Russian has no regard for human life and is an all out son of bitch, barbarian, and chronic drunk.”
-General George S. Patton
09-14-2022, 02:01 AM
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#1978
09-14-2022, 02:08 AM
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#1979
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https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/13/europ...ntl/index.html
LMFAO, if CNN can own you this bad.... LOL
The tsar suddenly might have no clothes. It has been a startling week on both sides of the Ukraine and Russia border.
What’s left of the curtain protecting the dignity of Russia’s military has been pulled back, and it’s definitely not the second mightiest in the world.
Russia’s withdrawal from around Kharkiv – a planned “regrouping” that some state media didn’t even dare mention – is arguably more significant than its earlier collapse of positions around the Ukrainian capital Kyiv. These units had been dug in for months, defending their positions effectively – as CNN witnessed during weeks spent along the arterial roads north out of Kharkiv – and were at times literally minutes drive from the Russian border.
That Moscow could not sustain a force so achingly close to its own territory speaks volumes about the real state of its supply chain and military. It is almost as if these retreating units ran back to a void, not to the nuclear power that in February expected to overrun its neighbor within 72 hours.
Secondly, Russia’s units do not appear to have effected a careful and cautious withdrawal. They ran, and left behind both armor and precious remaining supplies of ammunition. Open source intelligence website Oryx estimated that from Wednesday to Sunday, at least 338 fighter jets or tanks or trucks were left behind.
Pockets of Russian troops may remain to harass Ukrainian forces in the weeks ahead, but the nature of the frontline has irrevocably changed, as has its size. Kyiv is suddenly fighting a much smaller war now, along a greatly reduced frontline, against an enemy who also appear a lot smaller.
LMFAO, if CNN can own you this bad.... LOL
The tsar suddenly might have no clothes. It has been a startling week on both sides of the Ukraine and Russia border.
What’s left of the curtain protecting the dignity of Russia’s military has been pulled back, and it’s definitely not the second mightiest in the world.
Russia’s withdrawal from around Kharkiv – a planned “regrouping” that some state media didn’t even dare mention – is arguably more significant than its earlier collapse of positions around the Ukrainian capital Kyiv. These units had been dug in for months, defending their positions effectively – as CNN witnessed during weeks spent along the arterial roads north out of Kharkiv – and were at times literally minutes drive from the Russian border.
That Moscow could not sustain a force so achingly close to its own territory speaks volumes about the real state of its supply chain and military. It is almost as if these retreating units ran back to a void, not to the nuclear power that in February expected to overrun its neighbor within 72 hours.
Secondly, Russia’s units do not appear to have effected a careful and cautious withdrawal. They ran, and left behind both armor and precious remaining supplies of ammunition. Open source intelligence website Oryx estimated that from Wednesday to Sunday, at least 338 fighter jets or tanks or trucks were left behind.
Pockets of Russian troops may remain to harass Ukrainian forces in the weeks ahead, but the nature of the frontline has irrevocably changed, as has its size. Kyiv is suddenly fighting a much smaller war now, along a greatly reduced frontline, against an enemy who also appear a lot smaller.
“In addition to his other Asiatic characteristics, the Russian has no regard for human life and is an all out son of bitch, barbarian, and chronic drunk.”
-General George S. Patton
09-14-2022, 02:12 AM
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#1980
- phaginator
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Vatniks, question for you: Do you know what happened when the mighty russian wagner group attacked americans?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham
https://www.coffeeordie.com/wagner-group-syria-khasham
Oh no no no no no no no vatniks...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham
https://www.coffeeordie.com/wagner-group-syria-khasham
Oh no no no no no no no vatniks...
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