ok, i wont deny there are other alternatives that may be healthier

you really think people would ingest if there were NO benefits?

anyways, i dont really want to change your mind as youve said you've struggled with it. you should stay away and be proud of it

It's a drug. There are short term benefits to your feelings, but overall, it is harmful long term both to you and society.

[QUOTE=northernlights7 post_id=1675499333]I sound like I'm "jerking myself off"? I've always said that equating alcoholism to diseases was fkn stupid, including when I still drank and coped about it like every other drinker does. Still never found the "it's a diseeeeseeeaaaaase" arguement to be very compelling.[youtube]h0TfqpCYei4[youtube][/QUOTE]Its a disease in the sense that your brain isn't producing the "correct feel good chemicals" so you self medicate by drinking to make yourself feel better

Its a mental disease, a mental illness

still seems to be some debate about it all

In June of 2018, a study published in the journal PLOS Medicine found that among older adults, light drinking (in the range of one to four drinks per week) was associated with a slightly lower risk of death compared with zero consumption.

In August of 2018, two larger studies examined the impact of alcohol. The first one, published in The Lancet, included only people who drank at least some alcohol. It concluded that common recommendations regarding "moderate" drinking (one drink a day or less for women, and two drinks per day or less for men) might be too much.

In general, health risks rose with rising amounts of alcohol use. However, some protective effect related to light drinking (less than one drink/day) was observed for heart disease and diabetes in some groups. For example, the risk of heart attack and related cardiovascular disease was 14% lower for men drinking 0.8 drinks/day, and 18% lower for women drinking 0.9 drinks/day compared with none.

As one expert said when interviewed about this study: "There is no safe level of driving, but governments do not recommend that people avoid driving."

"More than 100 prospective studies show an inverse association between light to moderate drinking and risk of heart attack, ischemic (clot-caused) stroke, peripheral vascular disease, sudden cardiac death, and death from all cardiovascular causes. [20] The effect is fairly consistent, corresponding to a 25-40% reduction in risk. However, increasing alcohol intake to more than 4 drinks a day can increase the risk of hypertension, abnormal heart rhythms, stroke, heart attack, and death."

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutriti...ol-full-story/

Intake moderation is the key

I was drinking a 0.75 of whisky a day at one point. I was severely depressed and went to bed most nights hoping I wouldn't wake up. If I was able to quit that chit, anyone can. So yeah, I call people out on their excuse making bullchit regarding alcohol, both when they are making excuses covering for their drinking, and when they make excuses about how they can't quit.

In fact, you've made fun of me for it numerous times on here about it while telling me to go kill myself and how I deserved to die a horrible death from some terrible disease or injury from it. Back when I was still struggling with it an sought advice/support on the misc regarding it, you did nothing but take every opportunity to tell me how worthless I was and how I don't deserve to be alive.

Yet you're giving lectures to people about alcohol and being a nice guy. Once again, your inability to see how self-contradicting you are is astounding.

Unlike driving, you don't need alcohol to do anything. If I had to guess, I would bet the survival advantages are due to the fact that slightly overweight but not obese people have the best survival in heart attacks, strokes, etc. I still don't see the argument that alcohol is helpful. There's nothing beneficial you get from a glass of wine that you couldn't from simply eating some grapes or drinking some juice. All you're doing is introducing extra work for your liver and damaging your brain and chit.

During Covid in PA the government made sure people could get alcohol EASILY and you could get alcohol is DRIVE THROUGHS.

In PA, if I recall correctly, having an open bottle within reach is a crime. However, during covid, you could have drinks in your cupholder, lol.

The government knows that people need to be kept intoxicated to deal with all the pressure of our society.

They don't care if it causes you to die. While you live they want you half asleep.

Doesn't matter since this thread isn't about me or you. I'm not a nice guy. Never claimed to be a nice guy.

Good. Don't drink. If I said something mean to you, you were probably being racist or praising Hitler bro.

I think the whole 12 steps or 10 steps, whatever it is, addresses some things literally everyone ought to do. It just so happens meeting fundamental points solves whatever addicts were missing a lot of the time. I'm sure anyone who does not do these basic things also lives worse than they otherwise would.

Yet another reason why we should empower people to avoid these addictions. They are yet another method of control to subjugate the people.

Comparing drinking alcohol to driving in general and using that as a means to justify the "safety" of drinking is completely retarded, though. Driving is literally a necessity for 99% of American adults just to function normally in society. You could go your entire life in America without drinking a sip of alcohol, and you'd be just fine, if not better off for it.

You can't say the same about avoiding driving in America. Unless you grow up in NYC or something and never plan on traveling much outside of their city limits, your life will be dramatically impacted in a negative way by being incapable of driving as an adult in America. Try living in middle America away from major coastal cities, and you'll learn real fast that everyone loathes dealing with the adults in their lives who are too lazy to learn how to drive, as it very directly negatively impacts people around them when they're constantly hitting people up for rides.

During lockdowns in Minnesota, liquor stores were the only small businesses that were allowed to stay open. They even started letting restaurants and stuff deliever alcohol to help make up for business lost by the lockdowns/restrictions. The way draconian lockdown rules ruined Minnesota for an entire year (we had a few months breaks during the lockdowns during the summer of 2020 when the Dems needed to keep people from being too pissed at them during the 2020 elections) was abborant, meanwhile they allowed acohol to keep getting slung like it was nothing.


brb ooooo big scary "novel" virus
brb gyms shuttered closed
brb made it harder to access healthy food via lockdowns
brb made it difficult to access medical care
brb no, you can't live a normal life whatsoever
brb you want alcohol? Yeah, sure, go for it buddy!!!

There were a LOT of truths revealed during the lockdown if you kept observant.

I kind of believe it was god showing us some things to defeat evil people.

We have a cultural issue with alcohol. It's really bizarre. It's just seen as normal to drink alcohol.

we as in humans you mean

you act like this is something new or peculiar to the US lol

US has it worse than a lot of places, but yes. Humanity in general, with the exception of perhaps the Islamic world, which has its own craziness.

I'm just focusing on the US because Murica. Pretty sure Russia is the worst. Apparently, it's actually Hungary. But if you go by women specifically, USA is worst. Otherwise, we're like top 5.

Alcoholic consumption seen as normal isn't just our civilization, it's been seen as normal since B.C..

The fact is, life is tough and for many, it never gets easier. We're ALL going to die of some cancer or another, dementia, heart attack, etc.. Every single one of us. For some (not the ones with addiction problems), a drink after a long day or getting toasty on a night out/special occasion helps ease the stress of life. Someone will be healthier if they never drink, but it doesn't mean they'd be happier. Is the point of life just to exist as long as possible regardless of the quality of that life?

People can drink if they want. My point is we have an alcohol abuse problem. People should be aware of alcoholism and the effects of alcohol before they start drinking because that chit can ruin your entire life. The people deserve to be informed.

one thing i wood agree with is that they should offer genetic screening for children so people can find out if they have a predisposition toward legit alcoholism

i'm certain by now they've pinned down the specific genes involved

i've known a bunch of people who should have never had their first drink and other people who can take it or leave it and drink every so often and it makes zero negative difference for them

i like to get yucky but can stop if i need to. i know people who are legit doomed and can't stop

I will agree that your rarely hear about genetic predispositions for alcoholism (except for American Indians), and more should be done to warm about that possibility. Gen Z does drink less than us though at least, though I believe they're into different types of drugs like pills.

One issue is it's not entirely genetic. There are some genes involved, but I think they explain around half or so of the alcoholism. But yea people just need to be better informed. It should be clear to people it isn't "cool". We have underage anti drinking ads, but we need to make it more clear to people in general. Alcohol is actually worse than smoking in many ways.

It's not genetic, it's taught as a coping mechanism in families.

It's just feel good BS to soothe addicts that people say it's genetic.

Zero evidence.

Our genes can't be genetically addicted to a poison produced by fermenting plants.

Strong lack of understanding of your own fuking field.

The fact that alcohol has been a traditiinal drug of choice among societies (due to the fact that it can be found naturally in fermented rotting fruit, even great apes of today eat that stuff to get drunk, srs) throughout most of recorded human history isn't a very compelling arguement. Do you believe in ancient Chiense alternative medicine bs like cupping therapy just because it's older than sin, too?

i specifically didn't wanna look into it but ok lol

https://link.springer.com/article/10...-2012-13-2-239

This. The "muh genetics" excuse makes even less sense when it comes to trying to apply it to addiction issues than when people try to blame being obese on their genetics. I remember having to do a "debate" once in college (we were given a topic with opponents and had to defend whatever side the prof gave us of the debate, what we actually thought was irrelevant she said, srs).

I was tasked with debating that cigarette smoking should be banned on campus rather than allowing these small outdoor designated smoke break areas that had been established. I felt like that an outright smoking ban was overkill, but that's what I was told to debate for, so I did. The opposition just kept screeching "but muh tradition! but muh smokies to get me through school stress (oh, the humanity!)!!!. I.e., awful, purely emotionally based arguements for keeping smoking on campus.

Then they came in with the "muh genetics" bullchit. I responded by explaining how I had smoked for 2 years and quit, so I didn't consider that an excuse. Then some asssaclown from the student audience blurts out "Well.... uh.. I've smoked for 16 years, and you don't know what that's like, so you can't comment on it!!!!". Then all the smokercels chimed in an howled in agreeement, effectively making me debate the entire class instead of the debate team me and my team had just subdued.

Then I explained how my father smoked for 40 years and quit cold turkey before I ever touched a cig, and asked Big Balls "I've smoked for 16 whole years, so you couldn't possibly understand!" McGee his thoughts on getting trumped like that, to which he responded "See you just proved my point, genetics made quitting easy for you and your family!". Then I asked him how he felt about my father's dad who smoke and drank like a mo'fo for 60 years until it finally killed him in old age, and asked if he had any further lectures for me about how genetics just made addition easy for me. Whole class just went silent at that point lol

Your anecdotes don't negate the data on alcoholism brah. We know there are genetic components in many cases.

Like I posted, you fkn moron, it has been done already.

This. Not everyone drinks to get ****faced. I drank every day for years but only got drunk a few times in that time frame