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Energy Department: Lab Leak Most Likely Origin of Covid-19
Energy Department: Lab Leak Most Likely Origin of Covid-19
03-01-2023, 03:01 PM
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#151
03-01-2023, 03:03 PM
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#152
Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
So you won't explain such a broad generalization?I mean, if I have to explain this to you, that would be a waste of time.
But thanks for confirming you are unaware of why.
Just LOL @ the state of the beavercel medical community.
But thanks for confirming you are unaware of why.
Just LOL @ the state of the beavercel medical community.
03-01-2023, 03:04 PM
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#153
03-01-2023, 03:07 PM
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#154
03-01-2023, 03:16 PM
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#155
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Originally Posted By DuracellBunny⏩
That Dr. Makarty clip was fire. He mentioned how the NIH deleted early Covid samples in their database at the request of the Chinese. U wot?It's pure coincidence that all of these coincidences keep on happening.
I know I posted about it before, but it was a wild story. So, Jesse Bloom discovers that these early Covid samples were suddenly missing from the NIH database. He figures out that the Chinese had put in a request to delete them. He writes a preprint about these deleted samples and puts it on the server.
Then, he has a meeting with Fauci and Kristian Andersen. It got really heated, and IIRC, Andersen nearly lost his shіt, and in doing so, tells Bloom that he is the screener for the preprint server and tells him that he could delete it if he doesn't make major changes to the paper. U wot?
Chinese researchers directed the U.S. National Institutes of Health to delete gene sequences of early Covid-19 cases from a key scientific database, raising concerns that scientists studying the origin of the pandemic may lack access to key pieces of information.
The NIH confirmed that it deleted the sequences after receiving a request from a Chinese researcher who had submitted them three months earlier.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-1...article_inlineThe NIH confirmed that it deleted the sequences after receiving a request from a Chinese researcher who had submitted them three months earlier.
Here is an in-depth story about Kristian Andersen telling Jesse Bloom he could delete his article off the preprint server:
Bloom had submitted the paper to a preprint server, a public repository of scientific papers awaiting peer review, on the same day that he’d sent a copy to Fauci and Collins. It now existed in a kind of twilight zone: not published, and not yet public, but almost certain to appear online soon.
Collins immediately organized a Zoom meeting for Sunday, June 20. He invited two outside scientists, evolutionary biologist Kristian Andersen and virologist Robert Garry, and allowed Bloom to do the same. Bloom chose Pond and Rasmus Nielsen, a genetic biologist. That it was shaping up like an old-fashioned duel with seconds in attendance did not cross Bloom’s mind at the time. But six months after that meeting, he remained so troubled by what transpired that he wrote a detailed account, which Vanity Fair obtained.
After Bloom described his research, the Zoom meeting became “extremely contentious,” he wrote. Andersen leapt in, saying he found the preprint “deeply troubling.” If the Chinese scientists wanted to delete their sequences from the database, which NIH policy entitled them to do, it was unethical for Bloom to analyze them further, he claimed. And there was nothing unusual about the early genomic sequences in Wuhan.
Instantly, Nielsen and Andersen were “yelling at each other,” Bloom wrote, with Nielsen insisting that the early Wuhan sequences were “extremely puzzling and unusual.”
Andersen—who’d had some of his emails with Fauci from early in the pandemic publicly released through FOIA requests—leveled a third objection. Andersen, Bloom wrote, “needed security outside his house, and my pre-print would fuel conspiratorial notions that China was hiding data and thereby lead to more criticism of scientists such as himself.”
Fauci then weighed in, objecting to the preprint’s description of Chinese scientists “surreptitiously” deleting the sequences. The word was loaded, said Fauci, and the reason they’d asked for the deletions was unknown.
That’s when Andersen made a suggestion that surprised Bloom. He said he was a screener at the preprint server, which gave him access to papers that weren’t yet public. He then offered to either entirely delete the preprint or revise it “in a way that would leave no record that this had been done.” Bloom refused, saying that he doubted either option was appropriate, “given the contentious nature of the meeting.”
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022...ak-controversyCollins immediately organized a Zoom meeting for Sunday, June 20. He invited two outside scientists, evolutionary biologist Kristian Andersen and virologist Robert Garry, and allowed Bloom to do the same. Bloom chose Pond and Rasmus Nielsen, a genetic biologist. That it was shaping up like an old-fashioned duel with seconds in attendance did not cross Bloom’s mind at the time. But six months after that meeting, he remained so troubled by what transpired that he wrote a detailed account, which Vanity Fair obtained.
After Bloom described his research, the Zoom meeting became “extremely contentious,” he wrote. Andersen leapt in, saying he found the preprint “deeply troubling.” If the Chinese scientists wanted to delete their sequences from the database, which NIH policy entitled them to do, it was unethical for Bloom to analyze them further, he claimed. And there was nothing unusual about the early genomic sequences in Wuhan.
Instantly, Nielsen and Andersen were “yelling at each other,” Bloom wrote, with Nielsen insisting that the early Wuhan sequences were “extremely puzzling and unusual.”
Andersen—who’d had some of his emails with Fauci from early in the pandemic publicly released through FOIA requests—leveled a third objection. Andersen, Bloom wrote, “needed security outside his house, and my pre-print would fuel conspiratorial notions that China was hiding data and thereby lead to more criticism of scientists such as himself.”
Fauci then weighed in, objecting to the preprint’s description of Chinese scientists “surreptitiously” deleting the sequences. The word was loaded, said Fauci, and the reason they’d asked for the deletions was unknown.
That’s when Andersen made a suggestion that surprised Bloom. He said he was a screener at the preprint server, which gave him access to papers that weren’t yet public. He then offered to either entirely delete the preprint or revise it “in a way that would leave no record that this had been done.” Bloom refused, saying that he doubted either option was appropriate, “given the contentious nature of the meeting.”
03-01-2023, 03:17 PM
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#156
Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
That's the thing, I asked a question in response to your definitive statement. You refused to answer. Coulda just answered.Ah, you were working on a semantic gotcha.
Now go back and read my post as it pertains to the topic/context.
Thanks for showing us how intellectually dishonest you are yet again.
Now go back and read my post as it pertains to the topic/context.
Thanks for showing us how intellectually dishonest you are yet again.
Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
There should not be anything related to SARS be worked on at a BSL 2 facility.
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Why?
Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
I mean, if I have to explain this to you, that would be a waste of time.
But thanks for confirming you are unaware of why.
Just LOL @ the state of the beavercel medical community.
But thanks for confirming you are unaware of why.
Just LOL @ the state of the beavercel medical community.
03-01-2023, 03:24 PM
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#157
03-01-2023, 03:28 PM
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#158
Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
I don't.Thanks for confirming that you consider performing an antigen test to be along the same lines as doing research on a virus.
But, I do consider an antigen test for SARS to be "something related to SARS".
03-01-2023, 03:38 PM
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#159
Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Pretty broad range of possibilities. Coulda been serum testing from infected animals.And what do you consider "worked on" to be, in context of the thread?
Regardless, if level 3 or 4 is required, it must be pretty dangerous, yeah?
03-01-2023, 03:46 PM
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#160
Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
That's the thing. According to your statement, people should have had at least a level 3 facility installed in order to do a home test. Imagine the cost!Interesting.
Thanks for confirming that you think that performing an antigen test at home is along the same lines as "serum testing from infected animals".
Thanks for confirming that you think that performing an antigen test at home is along the same lines as "serum testing from infected animals".
03-01-2023, 03:52 PM
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#161
Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Would you consider an infected human to be different enough from an infected animal to require a different level of facility? Or could an infected human be considered as an infected animal?No, that's just what you've taken it out of context for.
Once again, thanks for confirming that you think that performing an antigen test at home is along the same lines as "serum testing from infected animals".
So let's put a stop to your textbook case of sealion.
Should research work on anything related to SARS be done at a BSL2 facility?
Yes or no answer please.
And just the "yes" or "no".
Once again, thanks for confirming that you think that performing an antigen test at home is along the same lines as "serum testing from infected animals".
So let's put a stop to your textbook case of sealion.
Should research work on anything related to SARS be done at a BSL2 facility?
Yes or no answer please.
And just the "yes" or "no".
03-01-2023, 03:56 PM
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#162
Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
It depends on the nature of the research work/task. Facilities should be equipped with different labs having different biosafety levels for distributed research tasks.Should research work on anything related to SARS be done at a BSL2 facility?
Yes or no answer please.
And just the "yes" or "no".
Yes or no answer please.
And just the "yes" or "no".
03-01-2023, 03:59 PM
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#163
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Seems like a pretty broad question. There are tons of experiments related to SARS that could be done in a BSL2 or lower facility. The answer to your question as written is "yes of course".So let's put a stop to your textbook case of sealion.
Should research work on anything related to SARS be done at a BSL2 facility?
Yes or no answer please.
And just the "yes" or "no".
Should research work on anything related to SARS be done at a BSL2 facility?
Yes or no answer please.
And just the "yes" or "no".
For example, one could have isolated and studied just the spike protein. Your question is hilarious and betrays a profound lack of understanding of the life sciences...
03-01-2023, 04:04 PM
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#164
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Originally Posted By TaiMaiSchutze⏩
Seems like a pretty broad question. There are tons of experiments related to SARS that could be done in a BSL2 or lower facility.The answer to your question as written is "yes of course".
For example, one could have isolated and studied just the spike protein. Your question is hilarious and betrays a profound lack of understanding of the life sciences...
For example, one could have isolated and studied just the spike protein. Your question is hilarious and betrays a profound lack of understanding of the life sciences...
Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Again, are you on the spectrum? How can you not recognize the bolded as directly answering your question?Interesting how :
a) You completely ignored the textbook case of sealion by J.L.C. and
b) You have not provided a yes or no answer.
Just LOL @ the state of pseduointellectuals these days.
a) You completely ignored the textbook case of sealion by J.L.C. and
b) You have not provided a yes or no answer.
Just LOL @ the state of pseduointellectuals these days.
03-01-2023, 04:06 PM
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#165
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Originally Posted By TaiMaiSchutze⏩
Not with the type of work they were doing at WIV.Seems like a pretty broad question. There are tons of experiments related to SARS that could be done in a BSL2 or lower facility. The answer to your question as written is "yes of course".
For example, one could have isolated and studied just the spike protein. Your question is hilarious and betrays a profound lack of understanding of the life sciences...
For example, one could have isolated and studied just the spike protein. Your question is hilarious and betrays a profound lack of understanding of the life sciences...
Two years later, Daszak and Shi published a paper reporting how the Chinese lab had engineered different versions of WIV1 and tested their infectiousness in human cells. The paper announced that the WIV had developed its own reverse-genetics system, following the Americans’ lead. It also included a troubling detail: the work, which was funded in part by the NIH grant, had been done in a BSL-2 lab. That meant the same viruses that Daszak was holding up as a clear and present danger to the world were being studied under conditions that, according to Richard Ebright, matched “the biosafety level of a US dentist’s office.”
Ebright believes one factor at play was the cost and inconvenience of working in high-containment conditions. The Chinese lab’s decision to work at BSL-2, he says, would have “effectively increas[ed] rates of progress, all else being equal, by a factor of 10 to 20”—a huge edge.
Work at the WIV was indeed progressing quickly. In 2017, Daszak and Shi followed with another study, also at BSL-2, that one-upped Baric’s work in North Carolina. The WIV had continued to unearth dozens of new SARS-like coronaviruses in bat caves, and it reported making chimeras with eight of them by fusing the spikes of the new viruses to the chassis of WIV1. Two of them replicated well in human cells. They were, for all intents and purposes, brand-new pathogens.
The revelation that the WIV was working with SARS-like viruses in subpar safety conditions has led some people to reassess the chance that SARS-CoV-2 could have emerged from some type of laboratory incident. “That’s screwed up,” the Columbia University virologist Ian Lipkin, who coauthored the seminal paper arguing that covid must have had a natural origin, told the journalist Donald McNeil Jr. “It shouldn’t have happened. People should not be looking at bat viruses in BSL-2 labs. My view has changed.”
https://www.technologyreview.com/202...rica-to-wuhan/Ebright believes one factor at play was the cost and inconvenience of working in high-containment conditions. The Chinese lab’s decision to work at BSL-2, he says, would have “effectively increas[ed] rates of progress, all else being equal, by a factor of 10 to 20”—a huge edge.
Work at the WIV was indeed progressing quickly. In 2017, Daszak and Shi followed with another study, also at BSL-2, that one-upped Baric’s work in North Carolina. The WIV had continued to unearth dozens of new SARS-like coronaviruses in bat caves, and it reported making chimeras with eight of them by fusing the spikes of the new viruses to the chassis of WIV1. Two of them replicated well in human cells. They were, for all intents and purposes, brand-new pathogens.
The revelation that the WIV was working with SARS-like viruses in subpar safety conditions has led some people to reassess the chance that SARS-CoV-2 could have emerged from some type of laboratory incident. “That’s screwed up,” the Columbia University virologist Ian Lipkin, who coauthored the seminal paper arguing that covid must have had a natural origin, told the journalist Donald McNeil Jr. “It shouldn’t have happened. People should not be looking at bat viruses in BSL-2 labs. My view has changed.”
03-01-2023, 04:08 PM
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#166
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Originally Posted By gwg77⏩
Sure. That work probably should have been done in a more secure lab.Not with the type of work they were doing at WIV.
https://www.technologyreview.com/202...rica-to-wuhan/
https://www.technologyreview.com/202...rica-to-wuhan/
03-01-2023, 04:09 PM
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#167
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
lmfao? wowReading comprehension of piss:
Should research work on anything related to SARS be done at a BSL2 facility?
Yes or no answer please.
And just the "yes" or "no".
I did not see just a yes or a no.
Thanks for confirming thatyouare "on the spectrum".
Should research work on anything related to SARS be done at a BSL2 facility?
Yes or no answer please.
And just the "yes" or "no".
I did not see just a yes or a no.
Thanks for confirming thatyouare "on the spectrum".
you are actually autistic
03-01-2023, 04:12 PM
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#168
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
If the core of your argument is whining that the Chinese sometimes cut corners, wait til you look at what our own labs do. I'll also add a BSL 4 designation isn't a guarantee of safety. We've had several leaks from our own labs. I mean just a while back someone discovered a vial of smallpox just sitting unsecured in some fridge.I mean, if your reading comprehension is this bad, I can't help you. But you did concur with my original statement as it relates to the context of the thread, so I guess we're good.
It still remains to be seen if WIV had anything to do with the origin of this virus.
03-01-2023, 04:12 PM
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#169
Originally Posted By gwg77⏩
The statement that "people should not be looking at bat viruses in Bsl-2 labs" is too general, just like the statement that sparked this current discussion.Not with the type of work they were doing at WIV.
https://www.technologyreview.com/202...rica-to-wuhan/
https://www.technologyreview.com/202...rica-to-wuhan/
03-01-2023, 04:16 PM
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#170
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Even the SARS comment is too general, as I explained earlier. Research with pathogens with pandemic potential should be done in very secure labs (BSL 3 or better).Fixed that for you.
And I also did notice you already modified my statement from "SARS" to "bat viruses".
Keep being intellectually dishonest.
And I also did notice you already modified my statement from "SARS" to "bat viruses".
Keep being intellectually dishonest.
03-01-2023, 04:18 PM
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#171
Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Well no, you said that nothing related to SARS should be worked on at level 2, which contradicts biosafety level designations.They're both just demonstrating a textbook case of sealion on a comment taken completely out of context.
FFS, J.L.C. argument is that since antigen tests are done at home, that kind of research can be done at home too.
FFS, J.L.C. argument is that since antigen tests are done at home, that kind of research can be done at home too.
I did not say the type of work described in gwg77's post should be done at home.
Regardless, it sounds like this virus should be considered dangerous based on many of the comments in this thread.
03-01-2023, 04:18 PM
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#172
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Can you really consider yourself an adult when your understanding of mathematics or physics is hundreds of years out of date?Reading comprehension of piss, again.
It's OK wincel, maybe some day you''ll mature, and you will be able to have meaningful conversations with adults.
Unfortunately, it doesn't look like that will be anytime soon.
It's OK wincel, maybe some day you''ll mature, and you will be able to have meaningful conversations with adults.
Unfortunately, it doesn't look like that will be anytime soon.
03-01-2023, 04:19 PM
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#173
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
I'd rather expose your autism.Once again, thanks for agreeing with me.
You could just post that.
You could just post that.
03-01-2023, 04:20 PM
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#174
Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Well no, my statement included a direct quote from gwg77's post.Fixed that for you.
And I also did notice you already modified my statement from "SARS" to "bat viruses".
Keep being intellectually dishonest.
And I also did notice you already modified my statement from "SARS" to "bat viruses".
Keep being intellectually dishonest.
I thought that was obvious, since I was replying to that post
03-01-2023, 04:21 PM
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#175
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
The chimeras made at WIV, at least the ones we know about, were not particularly dangerous to humans.Well no, you said that nothing related to SARS should be worked on at level 2, which contradicts biosafety level designations.
I did not say the type of work described in gwg77's post should be done at home.
Regardless, it sounds like this virus should be considered dangerous based on many of the comments in this thread.
I did not say the type of work described in gwg77's post should be done at home.
Regardless, it sounds like this virus should be considered dangerous based on many of the comments in this thread.
03-01-2023, 04:23 PM
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#176
03-01-2023, 04:26 PM
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#177
03-01-2023, 04:37 PM
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#178
Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Oh, I wouldn't be so sure. Text to speech and speech to text have both come a long way!Nah, the pseudointellectual beavercel is you. Didn't think I would need to spell it out.
But then again, you are the product of the beavercel educational system, I guess it's a wonder you can read.
But then again, you are the product of the beavercel educational system, I guess it's a wonder you can read.
03-01-2023, 04:38 PM
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#179
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
I wouldn't.Interesting.
Does this mean they should be handled in a BSL2 environment?
Does this mean they should be handled in a BSL2 environment?
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