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Forum » Energy Department: Lab Leak Most Likely Origin of Covid-19
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Thread: Energy Department: Lab Leak Most Likely Origin of Covid-19

post 1678243403 03-02-2023, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted By gachase21⏩
Don’t forget the freshly exploded lung tissue
That wouldn't be the problem. There would be small amounts of bat blood suspended in the air that people would breathe in. All of the combined pressure effects and air currents would effectively aerosolise some of the blood.

That would be the problem.
Screw nature; my body will do what I DAMN WELL tell it to do!

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They had the technology to rebuild me. They made me better, stronger, faster......
post 1678243573 03-02-2023, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted By TaiMaiSchutze⏩
Yea plausible, but is it probable?
Don't know. You gotta remember that Peter Daszak was in Laos collecting samples too. We don't even have an idea of what WIV might have.
post 1678246083 03-03-2023, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted By gwg77⏩
Don't know. You gotta remember that Peter Daszak was in Laos collecting samples too. We don't even have an idea of what WIV might have.
But see, his research may seem icky or creepy to you, but understanding how bats handle viruses could be the key to developing powerful antivirals. His work could literally save millions of lives. It is important to study this stuff.

Bats have weird immune abilities very different from other animals. For example, they don't even have bone marrow. Yet somehow they do not die from these viruses they carry. It's still a mystery afaik how bat immunity works, but it's important we find out.
post 1678246143 03-03-2023, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted By DuracellBunny⏩
That wouldn't be the problem. There would be small amounts of bat blood suspended in the air that people would breathe in. All of the combined pressure effects and air currents would effectively aerosolise some of the blood.

That would be the problem.
Outside. Next to a massive wind turbine. Try again lmao. Unless a guy was standing right there when it happened, that wouldn't be the issue. The particles would spread out and be moved to be very low concentration in the air. The issue would be the bat cleanup, where some poor guy is exposed to a bunch of bat carcasses.
post 1678246373 03-03-2023, 12:54 AM
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Meh, they're probably lying. Just trying to drum up the idiots with hatred of china.

A kind of, "hey look over there," moment so people don't look at the leadership in washington as the cause of all the crap we have to deal with.
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post 1678289403 03-03-2023, 05:19 PM
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Reading this article about the emails from Jan 31 to Feb 4, 2020
Farrar replied in an early-morning e-mail: “Being very careful in the morning wording. ‘Engineered’ probably not. Remains very real possibility of accidental lab passage in animals to give glycans.” The scientists seem by this point to have made a sharp distinction between a scenario in which the virus was deliberately engineered in a lab and a scenario in which the virus was generated during serial passage experiments in a lab.

“Eddie would be 60:40 lab side,” Farrar added. “I remain 50:50.”
https://www.thenation.com/article/so...id-lab-theory/


Article also uncovered more emails which I had previously not seen before, especially the 2nd link regarding serial passage:

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...-2nd-exchanges

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...assaging-garry



Also not sure if I had seen this email from Collins regarding serial passaging:


post 1678292403 03-03-2023, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted By gwg77⏩
Reading this article about the emails from Jan 31 to Feb 4, 2020




https://www.thenation.com/article/so...id-lab-theory/


Article also uncovered more emails which I had previously not seen before, especially the 2nd link regarding serial passage:

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...-2nd-exchanges

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...assaging-garry



Also not sure if I had seen this email from Collins regarding serial passaging:


But there are lots of other coronaviruses that are glycosylated...what? Why does this mean lab selection?
post 1678362483 03-04-2023, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted By TaiMaiSchutze⏩
But there are lots of other coronaviruses that are glycosylated...what? Why does this mean lab selection?
Found another email from Feb 5, 2020. I think that might be the revised draft ofProximal Origin of SARS-CoV-2attached to the email, too. I heard most of it was written by Feb 4, 2020.


post 1678366533 03-04-2023, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted By gwg77⏩
Found another email from Feb 5, 2020. I think that might be the revised draft ofProximal Origin of SARS-CoV-2attached to the email, too. I heard most of it was written by Feb 4, 2020.


Yea but that says FCS can be evolved by passaging. But what about the glycan part? I'm curious to know why that would be a sign of passaging. He doesn't really explain it there. And it seems they say the glycans also appear in the wild too as I was saying so how can you know?
post 1678404823 03-05-2023, 05:32 PM
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Full Select Subcommittee Memo:


https://oversight.house.gov/wp-conte...mal-Origin.pdf












post 1678414433 03-05-2023, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted By gwg77⏩
Found another email from Feb 5, 2020. I think that might be the revised draft ofProximal Origin of SARS-CoV-2attached to the email, too.I heard most of it was written by Feb 4, 2020.
^Wincel, this is why I was pointing out these dates to you yesterday. The draft debunking lab leak was written by Feb 4, yet they were still deliberating for several days past that. You should read the memo in the post above this.

Here is Emily Kopp's write up:

https://usrtk.org/covid-19-origins/c...ome-trust-nih/

post 1678414523 03-05-2023, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted By gwg77⏩
^Wincel, this is why I was pointing out these dates to you yesterday. The draft debunking lab leak was written by Feb 4, yet they were still deliberating for several days past that. You should read the memo in the post above this.



Did you already post about the top virologist working at the lab mysteriously died..I remember this being a big deal early on in the beginning of Covid. I'll have to look up the old info about him
post 1678414803 03-05-2023, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted By Paul
Did you already post about the top virologist working at the lab mysteriously died..I remember this being a big deal early on in the beginning of Covid. I'll have to look up the old info about him
See what you can find. I remember the doctor who tried alerting everyone in China of the outbreak died from Covid in the hospital. I think they were trying to silence him in the beginning if IIRC.


Edit: I remember this guy. Police tried silencing him in the beginning, but apparently he died of Covid, which may be disputed
Li Wenliang contracted the virus while working at Wuhan Central Hospital.

He had sent out a warning to fellow medics on 30 December but police told him to stop "making false comments".

There had been contradictory reports about his death, but the People's Daily now says he died at 02:58 on Friday (18:58 GMT Thursday).

...

On 30 December he sent a message to fellow doctors in a chat group warning them to wear protective clothing to avoid infection.

Four days later he was summoned to the Public Security Bureau where he was told to sign a letter. In the letter he was accused of "making false comments" that had "severely disturbed the social order".

He was one of eight people who police said were being investigated for "spreading rumours" Local authorities later apologised to Dr Li.

In his Weibo post he describes how on 10 January he started coughing, the next day he had a fever and two days later he was in hospital. He was diagnosed with the coronavirus on 30 January.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51403795
post 1678415113 03-05-2023, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted By gwg77⏩
Full Select Subcommittee Memo:


https://oversight.house.gov/wp-conte...mal-Origin.pdf












Trying to disprove something isn't a lack of objectivity. That's what scientists do. You can only rule out hypotheses. There may may be multiple explanations supporting an experiment...
post 1678415173 03-05-2023, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted By gwg77⏩
^Wincel, this is why I was pointing out these dates to you yesterday. The draft debunking lab leak was written by Feb 4, yet they were still deliberating for several days past that. You should read the memo in the post above this.

Here is Emily Kopp's write up:

https://usrtk.org/covid-19-origins/c...ome-trust-nih/

I am sure they had concerns, but the arguments in that paper are pretty sound. They couldn't totally rule out a lab leak. Seems they tried to find evidence against it. I just want to point out that while that sounds bad and biased, that's what you do in science.

You try to rule out hypotheses. I think their position has always been natural seems more likely but nothing is guaranteed.
post 1678415183 03-05-2023, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted By gwg77⏩
See what you can find. I remember the doctor who tried alerting everyone in China of the outbreak died from Covid in the hospital. I think they were trying to silence him in the beginning if IIRC.


Edit: I remember this guy. Police tried silencing him in the beginning, but apparently he died of Covid.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51403795
yup, there was more info I remeber reading about him I'll try to find. Also strange of all those videos coming out of China early on of people falling over in the streets, falling over on their bicycles, needing to be carried off, etc.

Never once stopped working or traveling during the lockdowns, and never once did I see a single person keel over or need medical assistance because they bucked from Covid, or even a severe coughing attack. The larpery out of China is on par with Bodhy's reputation on the MISC.
post 1678415363 03-05-2023, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted By TaiMaiSchutze⏩
Trying to disprove something isn't a lack of objectivity. That's what scientists do. You can only rule out hypotheses. There may may be multiple explanations supporting an experiment...
Originally Posted By TaiMaiSchutze⏩
I am sure they had concerns, but the arguments in that paper are pretty sound. They couldn't totally rule out a lab leak. Seems they tried to find evidence against it. I just want to point out that while that sounds bad and biased, that's what you do in science.

You try to rule out hypotheses. I think their position has always been natural seems more likely but nothing is guaranteed.
^^You're talking out of your ass in both these posts. You didn't even read the memo.


post 1678415483 03-05-2023, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted By Paul
yup, there was more info I remeber reading about him I'll try to find. Also strange of all those videos coming out of China early on of people falling over in the streets, falling over on their bicycles, needing to be carried off, etc.

Never once stopped working or traveling during the lockdowns, and never once did I see a single person keel over or need medical assistance because they bucked from Covid, or even a severe coughing attack. The larpery out of China is on par with Bodhy's reputation on the MISC.
Yeah those early videos of people falling over in the street were Chinese propaganda.
post 1678415493 03-05-2023, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted By gwg77⏩
^^You're talking out of your ass in both these posts. You didn't even read the memo.


No I am responding to the thing you posted saying "they tried to rule it out" as if that is a bad thing.
post 1678417713 03-05-2023, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted By TaiMaiSchutze⏩
No I am responding to the thing you posted saying "they tried to rule it out" as if that is a bad thing.
In conclusion, as long speculated,Proximal Origin of SARS-CoV-2was a heaping pile of shіt intended to shut down lab leak theory, all at the direction of Anthony Fauci.
post 1678418133 03-05-2023, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted By TaiMaiSchutze⏩
Yea but that says FCS can be evolved by passaging. But what about the glycan part? I'm curious to know why that would be a sign of passaging. He doesn't really explain it there. And it seems they say the glycans also appear in the wild too as I was saying so how can you know?
This is why I'm skeptical of this being any sort of evidence for lab leak. Serial passaging isn't some sort of devious or subtle technique of manipulation, as far as I know (I'm comparing it something I'm more familiar: Cell culture).

AFAIK it's just keeping the microorganism of interest in a culture/dish and feeding it regularly and observing its behaviour. What selection pressure is there for this supposed rapid development of the FCS?

As I see it, you would need to introduce a selection pressure and this would invariably show evidence of some sort of manipulation of the virus, which we can confidently say didnotoccur, for the various reasons I discussed long before I even coined the term Chicken Nugget Crew.


I think it's just ambiguous and scientifically unrigorous speculation. The more plausible way to argue serial passaging creating Sars-Cov-2's features would be forin vivopassaging but I think we know they weren't doing that, and on top of all that there is the demonstrable fact the FCS doesn't appear to be finely adapted to one particular species of animal, which puts further holes into lab leak and strengthens natural origins.
Back off, Warchild.

Seriously.
post 1678418873 03-05-2023, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted By gwg77⏩
In conclusion, as long speculated,Proximal Origin of SARS-CoV-2was a heaping pile of shіt intended to shut down lab leak theory, all at the direction of Anthony Fauci.
Why? The memo says Fauci asked them to start the investigation, not that he messed with it. Assume much?
post 1678418893 03-05-2023, 10:46 PM
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Additionally, these posts were from back in June 2021, from this Vanity fair article regarding the coverup within our federal government around April-May 2020. As the Vanity Fair article explains, Trump had the State Dept investigate the origins using various agencies within our government, but when they started asking questions, they were told not to pursue an investigation, and that they were "opening a can of worms."
Originally Posted By Procta⏩
https://www.nationandstate.com/2021/...-can-of-worms/

In an internal memo obtained by Vanity Fair, Thomas DiNanno, former acting assistant secretary of the State Department’s Bureau of Arms Control, Verification, and Compliance, wrote that staff from two bureaus, his own and theBureau of International Security and Nonproliferation, “warned” leaders within his bureau “not to pursue an investigation into the origin of COVID-19” because it would “‘open a can of worms’ if it continued.”
Originally Posted By gwg77⏩
^^The Vanity Fair article is worth the read. A bit long, but has a lot of detail in it.
As the NSC tracked these disparate clues, U.S. government virologists advising them flagged one study first submitted in April 2020. Eleven of its 23 coauthors worked for the Academy of Military Medical Sciences, the Chinese army’s medical research institute. Using the gene-editing technology known as CRISPR, the researchers had engineered mice with humanized lungs, then studied their susceptibility to SARS-CoV-2. As the NSC officials worked backward from the date of publication to establish a timeline for the study, it became clear that the mice had been engineered sometime in the summer of 2019, before the pandemic even started. The NSC officials were left wondering: Had the Chinese military been running viruses through humanized mouse models, to see which might be infectious to humans?

Believing they had uncovered important evidence in favor of the lab-leak hypothesis, the NSC investigators began reaching out to other agencies. That’s when the hammer came down. “We were dismissed,” said Anthony Ruggiero, the NSC’s senior director for counterproliferation and biodefense. “The response was very negative.”
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021...id-19s-origins
This week, The Washington Post confirms the coverup at the Energy Department in May 2020:
The little-known backstory of why the Energy Department’s view has evolved over the past three years is key to understanding why this is taking so long.

As my Post colleagues reported, the new assessment was the product of work by scientists and experts from the U.S. national laboratories, including some from the “Z-Division,” which has decades of experience investigating biological threats. Although we don’t know what new data prompted the Energy Department to change its assessment, nobody can say these experts are unqualified or unserious. They are some of the best scientific investigators, including biologists, in the world.

What’s not widely known is that Z-Division scientists were already investigating the origins of the pandemic three years ago.But after reporting internally in May 2020 that both theories were plausible, experts at the national laboratories were pulled off the case.

“We were working with the Z-Division but then they told us their headquarters had told them to stand down,” said Thomas DiNanno, who helped lead the State Department’s inquiry into the origins of the coronavirus in 2020.

In May 2021, when President Biden ordered the intelligence community to conduct a 90-day review of intelligence related to the origins of the coronavirus, he made a point of directing the national laboratories to resume their work on the issue as part of that review. And after the review was over, Biden told them to keep at it.

“President Biden specifically requested that the National Labs, which are part of the Department of Energy, be brought into this assessment because he wants to put every tool at use to be able to figure out what happened here,” national security adviser Jake Sullivan told CNN last weekend.

This is crucial because the issue of expertise is constantly invoked by those who play down the lab-accident hypothesis. FBI Director Christopher A. Wray alluded to this when confirming this week to Fox News that the FBI has long assessed (reportedly with “moderate confidence”) that a lab accident was the most likely source. The FBI’s assessment was conducted by specialists who focus on “the dangers of biological threats, which include things like novel viruses like covid,” he said. The FBI team was also reportedly supported by the National Bioforensic Analysis Center at Fort Detrick, Md.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...k-wuhan-china/



But, not only was there a coverup at the Energy Dept in May 2020, there was also a coverup at the FBI, as well.


post 1678419123 03-05-2023, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted By TaiMaiSchutze⏩
Why? The memo says Fauci asked them to start the investigation, not that he messed with it. Assume much?
I told you to read the memo. In the second paragraph, it explains what has long been known: that the draft was sent to Fauci for editing and approval.
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Originally Posted By gwg77⏩
I told you to read the memo. In the second paragraph, it explains what has long been known: that the draft was sent to Fauci for editing and approval.
All the memo said was that Fauci and the other 2 dudes prompted them to investigate the origin. It doesn't say they meddled with any findings or influenced it substantially. That Farrar guy had one word changed from unlikely to improbable. If this is the smoking gun, I'm afraid I am gonna have to acquit bro.
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Originally Posted By TaiMaiSchutze⏩
All the memo said was that Fauci and the other 2 dudes prompted them to investigate the origin. It doesn't say they meddled with any findings or influenced it substantially. That Farrar guy had one word changed from unlikely to improbable. If this is the smoking gun, I'm afraid I am gonna have to acquit bro.
We already have other emails showing how Fauci and Collins influenced the paper, which I know you've seen because I've posted it several times.

I understand you got a hard-on for Fauci, but your state of denial still won't change the facts.
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Fantastic timeline on the origins of Covid:

********************/@bioinfoscience/t...d-d2c128cfd414


10th April. PK Russsell ex USAMRIID, infectious disease expert write to James LeDuc his assessment that the WIV was the likely source of SARS-CoV-2.

USAMRIID: United States Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases


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Originally Posted By gwg77⏩
Fantastic timeline on the origins of Covid:

********************/@bioinfoscience/t...d-d2c128cfd414


10th April. PK Russsell ex USAMRIID, infectious disease expert write to James LeDuc his assessment that the WIV was the likely source of SARS-CoV-2.

USAMRIID: United States Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases


Li Wenliang died of covid. Who was the other doctor?

Dr. Zhang Jixian, who discovered and reported the virus, is still alive and well...

Here is the Chinese rebuttal. At this point, I trust them more than the US govt.

http://sydney.china-consulate.gov.cn...5_10752759.htm


That GOP shills would weaponize and politicize this virus to use against China while simultaneously downplaying its threat and even outright denying its existence for a time is as hilarious as it is disgusting.

Let's recall when Dr. Bright warned our people about it and everyone ignored him. People from both parties have thrown him under the bus. America is looking like the real fuk up here.
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Originally Posted By TaiMaiSchutze⏩
Li Wenliang died of covid. Who was the other doctor?

Dr. Zhang Jixian, who discovered and reported the virus, is still alive and well...

Here is the Chinese rebuttal. At this point, I trust them more than the US govt.

http://sydney.china-consulate.gov.cn...5_10752759.htm


That GOP shills would weaponize and politicize this virus to use against China while simultaneously downplaying its threat and even outright denying its existence for a time is as hilarious as it is disgusting.

Let's recall when Dr. Bright warned our people about it and everyone ignored him. People from both parties have thrown him under the bus. America is looking like the real fuk up here.
LOL @ even wasting time reading the Chinese rebuttal.

LOL @ trusting the Chinese government.

LOL @ wincel.
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Originally Posted By TaiMaiSchutze⏩
Li Wenliang died of covid. Who was the other doctor?

Dr. Zhang Jixian, who discovered and reported the virus, is still alive and well...

Here is the Chinese rebuttal. At this point, I trust them more than the US govt.

http://sydney.china-consulate.gov.cn...5_10752759.htm


That GOP shills would weaponize and politicize this virus to use against China while simultaneously downplaying its threat and even outright denying its existence for a time is as hilarious as it is disgusting.

Let's recall when Dr. Bright warned our people about it and everyone ignored him. People from both parties have thrown him under the bus. America is looking like the real fuk up here.
This is a map showing the hospital that the doctor worked at, and the red dot is the location of the wind turbine company.







https://m.made-in-china.com/company-hubeitrade/










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