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Forum » Trump admits he'd let Putin annex Ukraine to end war.
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Thread: Trump admits he'd let Putin annex Ukraine to end war.

post 1678867263 03-13-2023, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted By Bodhy⏩
He also extorted them into digging up dirt on his rival candidate by threatening to deprive them of much needed military aid.
And yet, they still received more aid under Trump than Obama.

Now explain how Russia would steamroll through the rest of Europe, after the small parts of Ukraine would be annexed.

Christ, you'd be that guy in the 60s, living in Australia Reeeeeeeeeeeing how the US isn't doing enough to win in Vietnam ......
post 1678867523 03-13-2023, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
Didn't he actually send more aid to Ukraine than Obama? Talk about a Russian asset......
The very act of aiding them, which Trump unwisely chose to do, may have set this in motion.
post 1678867613 03-13-2023, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted By Bodhy⏩
He also extorted them into digging up dirt on his rival candidate by threatening to deprive them of much needed military aid.
Originally Posted By TaiMaiSchutze⏩
The very act of aiding them, which Trump unwisely chose to do, may have set this in motion.
post 1678867673 03-13-2023, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted By Bodhy⏩
Thanks for being the only person ITT who attempted an actual discussion instead of throwing child-tier insults around.

I've long been a critic of Trump's foreign policy and a great example of him being out of his element. Your thoughts?


FWIW, too, I wasn't claiming Trump was a literal puppet in for Putin and they colluded to do devious chit. I'm saying Trump was a useful idiot which Putin wanted in the WH regardless of Trump's knowledge of Putin's geopolitical ambitions. Because Trump, more than anything, is fundamentally polarizing. He foments division and hatred and partisanship.


Putin wants to destroy Western democracy by destabilizing the country along partisan lines and supporting isolationist tendencies in US politics. Trump doesn't need to be in on it. Trump functions just as well being a useful idiot.
Yeah I don't think Trump had a coherent policy at all. He mostly just did what people said until it felt wrong. The problem is this type of indecisiveness was dangerous. I do like that he challenged our foreign policy establishment because I strongly disagree with them. I can see him being seen that way, assuming the hawks are right. But if they aren't, the cheeto has now become the voice of reason.

I don't know what Trump's goals are, but not every antiwar person is isolationist. For example, I am very pro international trade, alliances, and engagement. I just am against regime change wars and the kind of provocative chit stirring our govt does. On some level, that means I'm ok with cozying up to dictators. I don't see authoritarian regimes as something we need to destroy, as distateful as they are. A government is usually better than no government, as we saw in Libya. And look at China. Do they really need American freedom? They seem to be fine without us.
post 1678867833 03-13-2023, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted By Cleveland33⏩
Obama was right no to aid them. He knew the weapons would fall into the hands of neonazis who would escalate the Donbass war.
post 1678867993 03-13-2023, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted By TaiMaiSchutze⏩
Obama was right no to aid them. He knew the weapons would fall into the hands of neonazis who would escalate the Donbass war.
Obama did send them aid, I was just pointing out that Trump sent them more aid.
post 1678870333 03-13-2023, 07:51 AM
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way too early in the morning to be reading such dumb posts.

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post 1678870453 03-13-2023, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted By Bodhy⏩
He also extorted them into digging up dirt on his rival candidate by threatening to deprive them of much needed military aid.
That was Biden, who openly admitted he did exactly that. Trump just made a phone call and asked questions and was exonerated for your incorrect statement.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

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post 1678870553 03-13-2023, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted By Bodhy⏩
For starters, of course Putin wouldn't have invaded whilst Trump was in office. Why jeopardize having such a useful asset?
Do you have sources for this conspiracy theory?
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Right wing politics is the new counter-culture.
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post 1678870823 03-13-2023, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted By XterraRob⏩
Do you have sources for this conspiracy theory?
He's creating bogeymen.
post 1678870843 03-13-2023, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted By Polaris⏩
He's creating bogeymen.
actually goes back to a topic that came up last week - there is a scary number of libs who think Mueller proved that Trump was in cahoots with Russia
post 1678871223 03-13-2023, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
Obama did send them aid, I was just pointing out that Trump sent them more aid.
No he did not arm them. Obama did not send them any weapons.
post 1678872863 03-13-2023, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted By TaiMaiSchutze⏩
No he did not arm them. Obama did not send them any weapons.
Just his IAs going over to help with a little coup is all, no biggie.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

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post 1678873143 03-13-2023, 09:05 AM
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Clicked thread just to neg. Feel fulfilled.
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post 1678873163 03-13-2023, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted By Bodhy⏩
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-ne...raine-end-war/



For starters, of course Putin wouldn't have invaded whilst Trump was in office. Why jeopardize having such a useful asset?

But in another sense, just quoting Trump offering to give a part of Ukraine to Putin doesn't capture the magnitude of this situation.


The implications if this were to have happened? Destroy NATO and leave all of Europe vulnerable to Russian attack. America weakens its trade with China and India and these countries instead, strengthen a relationship with a newly emboldened Russia.

Russia would now dominate the Eastern hemisphere and rival the US.

It would aggravate WW3 more than anything else. I always said Trump's moves on foreign policy were clueless and supplicating to dictatorships and weakening America on a global scale, but the dude is a straight upcuck.
wow imagine being this dumb while at the same time thinking you're some sort of scholar
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post 1678874273 03-13-2023, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted By JUSA⏩
Just his IAs going over to help with a little coup is all, no biggie.
Pretty sure that wasn't even part of Obama's agenda. That was Hillary and friends. Obama tried to resist them. His main advisor called them the Blob. They just kind of do chit. You can only do so much. Obama actually wanted a reset with Russia, but after the annexation and coup, he lost the debate. He had a better relationship with Putin than Hillary.

Same way Trump really wasn't in the driver seat for a lot of what he did. He just kind of went with his advisors. And when he stood up to Bolton, SHTF.

I don't consider Obama the mastermind of Maidan. It's clearly the work of people like Nuland and Clinton.
post 1678875133 03-13-2023, 09:49 AM
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Original Ruckus
post 1678875323 03-13-2023, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted By TaiMaiSchutze⏩
Pretty sure that wasn't even part of Obama's agenda. That was Hillary and friends. Obama tried to resist them. His main advisor called them the Blob. They just kind of do chit. You can only do so much. Obama actually wanted a reset with Russia, but after the annexation and coup, he lost the debate. He had a better relationship with Putin than Hillary.

Same way Trump really wasn't in the driver seat for a lot of what he did. He just kind of went with his advisors. And when he stood up to Bolton, SHTF.

I don't consider Obama the mastermind of Maidan. It's clearly the work of people like Nuland and Clinton.
Oh I agree, I think Obama went along for whatever, and I probably disagree with you in that, I think that was the plan from the start. Get the charismatic and historic guy in office, do as we please. Neither of us know, but I suspect he didn't even put up a fight and letting in the neocon war hawks was the plan from the beginning.

Kind of the same with Trump, we can speculate he tried to recoil from the **** and it went bad, and maybe that is the case (as they sure as fuk went after him for some reason) but who knows.

I do agree, Obama was not the architect. I doubt even Hillary was, I think they all take orders from up above (or down below, depending on how literal you want to take that phrasing of it).

Good talking with you though, hope you're doing well with things. Anytime you want to chat, hit me up.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

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post 1678875423 03-13-2023, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted By JUSA⏩
Oh I agree, I think Obama went along for whatever, and I probably disagree with you in that, I think that was the plan from the start. Get the charismatic and historic guy in office, do as we please. Neither of us know, but I suspect he didn't even put up a fight and letting in the neocon war hawks was the plan from the beginning.

Kind of the same with Trump, we can speculate he tried to recoil from the **** and it went bad, and maybe that is the case (as they sure as fuk went after him for some reason) but who knows.

I do agree, Obama was not the architect. I doubt even Hillary was, I think they all take orders from up above (or down below, depending on how literal you want to take that phrasing of it).

Good talking with you though, hope you're doing well with things. Anytime you want to chat, hit me up.
I know he did put up a fight. McFaul even talks about it and how Obama wanted the reset. It didn't work out. Hillary was a major player, but there is no one person in charge. It's an amorphous "Blob" of people with a variety of interests in think tanks and stuff who basically converge on a policy. From what I understand, it really is quite decentralized. That's part of why it is so difficult to change anything.
post 1678875473 03-13-2023, 09:55 AM
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to end the war...............

as in the war had already started and these are the cards that are dealt that he has to play if he were to take over now.

Now there are "at worst" deals he spoke of, those are at worst deals. He even said that. Lol at you calling him a russia asset but not obama and bush who also had russia take over parts.
post 1678875743 03-13-2023, 10:01 AM
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Pretty sure op still believes in Russian collusion
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post 1678875953 03-13-2023, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted By Bodhy⏩
He also extorted them into digging up dirt on his rival candidate by threatening to deprive them of much needed military aid.
Yeah so?

What, are they entitled to our military aid or something? GTFO.. Fuk Ukraine, if they want aid then dirt on an already filthy Joe and Hunter Biden is a micropsc price to pay.
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post 1678876053 03-13-2023, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted By Bodhy⏩
FWIW, too, I wasn't claiming Trump was a literal puppet in for Putin and they colluded to do devious chit. I'm saying Trump was a useful idiot which Putin wanted in the WH regardless of Trump's knowledge of Putin's geopolitical ambitions. Because Trump, more than anything, is fundamentally polarizing. He foments division and hatred and partisanship.


Putin wants to destroy Western democracy by destabilizing the country along partisan lines and supporting isolationist tendencies in US politics. Trump doesn't need to be in on it. Trump functions just as well being a useful idiot.
Originally Posted By 5x10⏩
Pretty sure op still believes in Russian collusion
He does. And he tried walking it back in this thread when even wincel called him out on it. But he has a rich post history of his claims of collusion.


Originally Posted By Bodhy⏩
Stopped reading at "Russian hoax" because that is when I knew you were spouting disinformation.
Originally Posted By Bodhy⏩
As anyone who discusses the Mueller findings with Trumpers is well aware, the first (and usually last and only) thing they will have to contribute to the conversation is No Collusion!, delivered with shrill overconfidence, as is their wont. Trump, of course, is thereby portrayed as an innocent little cherub who did nothing wrong.


But this is a disingenuous rhetorical move on behalf of Trump, Barr and Trumpers; it is a concerted attempt to blur the lines between legality and politics. As Paul Rosenzweig says, one must not use collusion as a shorthand for criminality.

This article by Politicoexplains the deal with collusion, what is and isn't a crime, and what crimes actually did happen.


So let us not be baited by the "No Collusion!" talking point anymore; it is a red herring clearly meant to divert us from the real truth of what Trump et al were and are upto.
Originally Posted By Bodhy⏩
We still on this? No one is going to reinvent Mueller's wheels at this point in time. Sure, it didn't meet the legal benchmark for criminal conspiracy but to say it was nothing is a Fox News alternate reality. Failing to understand because Trump refused to be questioned by the FBI that makes the report actually inconclusive.


IMO Mueller, if anything, was far too mealy-mouthed in spelling out what his report entailed since he was always such a punctilious, letter of the law kind of guy. Maybe that is why the Republicans hired him, knowing his reputation for only framing his arguments within the strictest letter of the law would give them a polemical leeway in proving Trump's innnocence knowing the American public would not and could not discern the difference between Mueller's legalese and the farcical claim of exoneration.
post 1678876403 03-13-2023, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted By gwg77⏩
He does. And he tried walking it back in this thread when even wincel called him out on it. But he has a rich post history of his claims of collusion.
Can't blame people for believing it when so many in the media and intel community pushed this lie. It's like the wmd in Iraq chit. Total fabrication.
post 1678876463 03-13-2023, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted By TaiMaiSchutze⏩
Can't blame people for believing it when so many in the media and intel community pushed this lie. It's like the wmd in Iraq chit. Total fabrication.
Bodhy tries to portray himself as a serious intellectual who is currently working towards his PhD. How is he so stupid?
post 1678876523 03-13-2023, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted By gwg77⏩
Bodhy tries to portray himself as a serious intellectual who is currently working towards his PhD. How is he so stupid?
Terry Tao is probably the smartest human on Earth and posted a defense of Hillary Clinton over Trump purely because Trump is an idiot. Which is fair, but he didn't really scrutinize Hillary's foreign policy at all. I mean he just clearly spent very little time on it beyond "This person is not an idiot".

https://terrytao.wordpress.com/2016/...es-of-america/

Point being, smarter people than you and me are duped by the media or misled by government and not given the whole picture. It doesn't make them any less intelligent. Also, someone can disagree with your political views and still be very intelligent. Like I despise nazis, but there used to be some smart nazis. My main issue with many people here is they are all dumb.

He also ended up being wrong about Trump. Trump did his duties and served as president. He maybe wasn't the greatest president, but he really wasn't terrible either. In fact, he was probably better than Bush.
post 1678877293 03-13-2023, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted By TaiMaiSchutze⏩
Can't blame people for believing it when so many in the media and intel community pushed this lie. It's like the wmd in Iraq chit. Total fabrication.
I mean, yes you can.

It's kind of the point, he's parroting brainwashing yet when called out on it, has at least enough awareness to lie and pretend he hasn't been demanding the lying propaganda was truthful for years and years.

If I had been a major proponent of the lies that led up to the Iraq War, kept repeating all the lies and demanding they were all true, when the dust finally settled and we now know the truth -- I wouldn't start a new conversation talking about how Saddam had WMDs.

Bodhy did that here, called Trump a Russian asset, when in the past he's stated this in full Rachel Maddow mode as him being on the Kremlin's payroll, but then wants us to think it's just that Trump was pushing for policy that might benefit Russia?

Nobody is that poor a communicator.
Originally Posted By TaiMaiSchutze⏩
He also ended up being wrong about Trump. Trump did his duties and served as president. He maybe wasn't the greatest president, but he really wasn't terrible either. In fact, he was probably better than Bush.
!*()*()!@*()?????

What?!

Wait, do you mean Bush sr? Who was chit but not full bore madman like his duped son, right? GWB is easily, EASILY, the worst president of anyone posting here's lifetime, besides z4 who was probably around with Nixon and Johnson, so it's a debate in his case. The rest of us, No. Worse than Carter. Reagan had a bad 2cnd term but still, not even close. Worse than Bill Clinton. Worse than Obama. Worse than Trump, who I thought deserved a second term. None of them have the blood on their hands GW Bush has.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

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post 1678877523 03-13-2023, 10:41 AM
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Wincel > Bodhy
The Era of Great Noticing has begun.
Modern liberalism is morally bankrupt and demonic.
Right wing politics is the new counter-culture.
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Has Beowulf10 ever experienced true love? Where did he go?
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post 1678877793 03-13-2023, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted By JUSA⏩
I mean, yes you can.

It's kind of the point, he's parroting brainwashing yet when called out on it, has at least enough awareness to lie and pretend he hasn't been demanding the lying propaganda was truthful for years and years.

If I had been a major proponent of the lies that led up to the Iraq War, kept repeating all the lies and demanding they were all true, when the dust finally settled and we now know the truth -- I wouldn't start a new conversation talking about how Saddam had WMDs.

Bodhy did that here, called Trump a Russian asset, when in the past he's stated this in full Rachel Maddow mode as him being on the Kremlin's payroll, but then wants us to think it's just that Trump was pushing for policy that might benefit Russia?

Nobody is that poor a communicator.
Yep. Bodhy has been a member on this forum since 2020, which is long after Trump was exonerated from any claims of Russian Collusion. If he still hasn't figured it out, he is an idiot.
post 1678877813 03-13-2023, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted By JUSA⏩
I mean, yes you can.

It's kind of the point, he's parroting brainwashing yet when called out on it, has at least enough awareness to lie and pretend he hasn't been demanding the lying propaganda was truthful for years and years.

If I had been a major proponent of the lies that led up to the Iraq War, kept repeating all the lies and demanding they were all true, when the dust finally settled and we now know the truth -- I wouldn't start a new conversation talking about how Saddam had WMDs.

Bodhy did that here, called Trump a Russian asset, when in the past he's stated this in full Rachel Maddow mode as him being on the Kremlin's payroll, but then wants us to think it's just that Trump was pushing for policy that might benefit Russia?

Nobody is that poor a communicator.

!*()*()!@*()?????

What?!

Wait, do you mean Bush sr? Who was chit but not full bore madman like his duped son, right? GWB is easily, EASILY, the worst president of anyone posting here's lifetime, besides z4 who was probably around with Nixon and Johnson, so it's a debate in his case. The rest of us, No. Worse than Carter. Reagan had a bad 2cnd term but still, not even close. Worse than Bill Clinton. Worse than Obama. Worse than Trump, who I thought deserved a second term. None of them have the blood on their hands GW Bush has.
I agree. That's my point. He was better than Bush. Meaning for all his incompetence, he didn't start any wars and our economy was mostly ok. What I am saying is that Terry Tao was wrong about Trump being unfit for office. Because he clearly did the job. At the end of the day, we didn't end up destroyed or in a nuclear war. Granted, his staff probably held his hand. But, he did the job.

Regarding Bodhy, he made the point that he meant asset as in useful idiot or playing into Putin's strategy.
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