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Forum » You die. You go to Hell. You see the Devil
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Thread: You die. You go to Hell. You see the Devil

post 1681624923 04-27-2023, 04:20 PM
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at least i didn't lose my golden fiddle to some hillbilly in Georgia
post 1681624973 04-27-2023, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted By Godfrd824⏩
Maybe we are all already dead. I can find no other explanation for why we see 20-30 fat woman threads a day from the same guy.
wait, did eod pivot and create an alt?
post 1681625153 04-27-2023, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted By PaulJerome⏩
People have died and gone to Hell through NDE's and given accounts of their horrific experience when they came back to life. In as much as it lines up with scripture, I believe these accounts. Some of the fun things going on in hell:

1) you know that you will be there forever and there is zero hope (2 Thes 1:9, Matt 25:46)

2) worms crawl in and out of your skin and through your nose and eyes (Mark 9:48)

3) there are individual chambers (Pro 7:27) so you can hear others scream but cant talk with them

4) the sulfur is so strong in the air that it takes every effort just to get a little bit of air and then you're back to trying to get another little breath (Gen 19:24)

5) you will be in a blazing furnace and you will be weeping and gnashing your teeth. (Matt 13:15)

6) you would do anything for just one drop of water (Luke 16:24)

7) you will understand why you belong there (Luke 16:25)

Laugh about it to your peril. You have been warned!
Do you really think an all-loving god would do this to his creations?

Or is more likely that humans made this up to scare people into following their religion?

You have been warned.
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post 1681625253 04-27-2023, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted By Cleveland33⏩
wait, did eod pivot and create an alt?
Nah, johnny2deep1 is more powerful than eod could ever hope to be.
When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home.
post 1681626773 04-27-2023, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted By Godfrd824⏩
Think about the type of being that would create something like that.
Originally Posted By lockdev⏩
Do you really think an all-loving god would do this to his creations?

Or is more likely that humans made this up to scare people into following their religion?

You have been warned.
I think you are both making the same point, so I'll reply to both of you. The short answer is that God wanted a people who would love Him for all eternity. You can't have love without free will (i.e. you can't force someone to love you, it has to be a choice). God loved everyone in that He sent His Son to go through Hell for you (John 3:16), so God did His part. Now you have a choice on whether or not to love Him back. The Bible refers to it as Him 'knowing you'. He does not know you unless you love Him back (Matt 7:21-23). There's more to it but that is the condensed version.
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post 1681626993 04-27-2023, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted By PaulJerome⏩
I think you are both making the same point, so I'll reply to both of you. The short answer is that God wanted a people who would love Him for all eternity. You can't have love without free will (i.e. you can't force someone to love you, it has to be a choice). God loved everyone in that He sent His Son to go through Hell for you (John 3:16), so God did His part. Now you have a choice on whether or not to love Him back. The Bible refers to it as Him 'knowing you'. He does not know you unless you love Him back (Matt 7:21-23). There's more to it but that is the condensed version.
That's very petty. It doesn't put God in a good light. Imagine if a parent told this to their child and threatened to torture them.
When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home.
post 1681627303 04-27-2023, 05:05 PM
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that feel when the devil is you but everything you could have been
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post 1681627593 04-27-2023, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted By Godfrd824⏩
That's very petty. It doesn't put God in a good light. Imagine if a parent told this to their child and threatened to torture them.
Imagine if a parent let his son beat his teacher with a baseball bat, shoot his mom, and burn his father's house down, and did not punish him for it.
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post 1681627643 04-27-2023, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted By PaulJerome⏩
I think you are both making the same point, so I'll reply to both of you. The short answer is that God wanted a people who would love Him for all eternity. You can't have love without free will (i.e. you can't force someone to love you, it has to be a choice). God loved everyone in that He sent His Son to go through Hell for you (John 3:16), so God did His part. Now you have a choice on whether or not to love Him back. The Bible refers to it as Him 'knowing you'. He does not know you unless you love Him back (Matt 7:21-23). There's more to it but that is the condensed version.
Where was that love from the time of Adam?
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1681627683 04-27-2023, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
Where was that love from the time of Adam?
Not sure what you mean.
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post 1681628043 04-27-2023, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted By PaulJerome⏩
People have died and gone to Hell through NDE's and given accounts of their horrific experience when they came back to life. In as much as it lines up with scripture, I believe these accounts. Some of the fun things going on in hell:

1) you know that you will be there forever and there is zero hope (2 Thes 1:9, Matt 25:46)

2) worms crawl in and out of your skin and through your nose and eyes (Mark 9:48)

3) there are individual chambers (Pro 7:27) so you can hear others scream but cant talk with them

4) the sulfur is so strong in the air that it takes every effort just to get a little bit of air and then you're back to trying to get another little breath (Gen 19:24)

5) you will be in a blazing furnace and you will be weeping and gnashing your teeth. (Matt 13:15)

6) you would do anything for just one drop of water (Luke 16:24)

7) you will understand why you belong there (Luke 16:25)

Laugh about it to your peril. You have been warned!
and yet the pope will say chit like "hell isnt real, your soul just disappears." just lol.
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post 1681628113 04-27-2023, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted By PaulJerome⏩
Not sure what you mean.
He sent Jesus to hell because he loved everyone (although I don't consider that love to send an innocent man for the sins of others - that's oppression). What about say Noah who lived way before that time?
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1681628243 04-27-2023, 05:22 PM
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post 1681628383 04-27-2023, 05:26 PM
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post 1681628963 04-27-2023, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
He sent Jesus to hell because he loved everyone (although I don't consider that love to send an innocent man for the sins of others - that's oppression). What about say Noah who lived way before that time?
What if a friend knew you were going to get shot and stood in front of you and took the bullet for you and died in your place. Would that be love or nah?

John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

The Old Testament believers were saved by faith (Rom 4:3) as are also the New Testament believers.
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post 1681629463 04-27-2023, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted By PaulJerome⏩
What if a friend knew you were going to get shot and stood in front of you and took the bullet for you and died in your place. Would that be love or nah?

John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

The Old Testament believers were saved by faith (Rom 4:3) as are also the New Testament believers.
That isn't the same. Here's a better one. Imagine you came and stole my car and in order for me to forgive you, I kill my son and you are no longer held accountable. Do you call that justice and love?

- Old Testament believers
- Noah
Pick one
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1681630683 04-27-2023, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
He sent Jesus to hell because he loved everyone (although I don't consider that love to send an innocent man for the sins of others - that's oppression). What about say Noah who lived way before that time?
Jesus CHOSE to die on the cross, for all our sins. He died even for his enemies. He does this because he loves us all. He even asked the Father,"Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."Luke 23:34

Then, Jesus chooses to descend into Hell and confronts Satan and releases souls. Then conquers death and is risen on the 3rd day. Jesus does this for us as we are all broken, all sinners, yet his love endures for us.

We now have a choice. We return that love or we don't. We choose God, or we don't. We say "Yes" to God, or we say "No" to him. We can choose good, or we can choose evil.

If God forces us to always to say Yes to him, if he forces us to love him, if He removes the propensity to do evil, then there is no sacrifice on either part, there is no love.
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post 1681631453 04-27-2023, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted By Tuksonrider⏩
Jesus CHOSE to die on the cross, for all our sins. He died even for his enemies. He does this because he loves us all. He even asked the Father, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." Luke 23:34

Then, Jesus chooses to descend into Hell and confronts Satan and releases souls. Then conquers death and is risen on the 3rd day. Jesus does this for us as we are all broken, all sinners, yet his love endures for us.

We now have a choice. We return that love or we don't. We choose God, or we don't. We say "Yes" to God, or we say "No" to him. We can choose good, or we can choose evil.

If God forces us to always to say Yes to him, if he forces us to love him, if He removes the propensity to do evil, then there is no sacrifice on either part, there is no love.
No he was not willing to die...rather, what did he say on the cross? He asked why God had forsaken him (but even then, who's he talking to?)
Matthew 27:46
About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli,[c] lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

He ask the cup (death) to be removed from him...not even from his will but the Fathers will.
Matthew 26:39
Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

Who is Jesus crying out to on the cross? Himself?
Who is Jesus praying to? Who does God pray to? Himself?

The people spoke Aramaic. Google what "God" is in Aramaic - it is Alaha. People think Jesus walked in NY or Paris and took the metro.
Imagine a man from the middle east with a beard standing next to you falling on his face saying "Alaha Alaha".
What religion would you say he is? Didn't Jesus do that?
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1681631863 04-27-2023, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
No he was not willing to die...rather, what did he say on the cross? He asked why God had forsaken him (but even then, who's he talking to?)
Matthew 27:46
About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli,[c] lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

He ask the cup (death) to be removed from him
Matthew 26:39
Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

Who is Jesus crying out to on the cross? Himself?
Who is Jesus praying to? Who does God pray to? Himself?

The people spoke Aramaic. Google what "God" is in Aramaic - it is Alaha. People think Jesus walked in NY or Paris and took the metro.
Imagine a man from the middle east with a beard standing next to you falling on his face saying "Alaha Alaha".
What religion would you say he is? Didn't Jesus do that?
Because Jesus IS GOD made in the FLESH. He KNEW he was going to feel pain, feel suffering, and feel betrayal. Because of his HUMAN side, he prayed, he even sweated blood in the garden of gethsemane. He knew this was going to happen even though he was without sin, and yet he still chose to go though with it.

He is GOD, the second in the Trinity. He could have just stopped it HIMSELF, but chose not to because of his love for us.
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post 1681631873 04-27-2023, 06:30 PM
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post 1681632083 04-27-2023, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
That isn't the same. Here's a better one. Imagine you came and stole my car and in order for me to forgive you, I kill my son and you are no longer held accountable. Do you call that justice and love?

- Old Testament believers
- Noah
Pick one
I guess you're saying that Noah was not an OT believer? Noah was saved by faith (Heb 11:7) and he lived prior to Jesus' birth as did all of the OT believers.

As far as the stolen car analogy, you'd have to factor in that the Father and the Son share the same deity. They are different distinct persons but both the same God. Basically, God gave Himself as the payment for sin.

You are the one who stole the car and are now criticizing the father's sense of justice for punishing his son in your place because you think that he should punish you. Did I get that right?

If we ascribe any attributes to God which are contrary to His word then we aren't being truthful. This is akin to making a god that suits us which is a violation of the first commandment (Exo 20:4-6). I think we can agree that truth is truth, no matter what either of us believe; what is true is still the truth even if we disagree.
Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
No he was not willing to die.
Jesus laid His life down willingly.

John 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”
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post 1681632433 04-27-2023, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted By Tuksonrider⏩
Because Jesus IS GOD made in the FLESH. He KNEW he was going to feel pain, feel suffering, and feel betrayal. Because of his HUMAN side, he prayed, he even sweated blood in the garden of gethsemane. He knew this was going to happen even though he was without sin, and yet he still chose to go though with it.

He is GOD, the second in the Trinity. He could have just stopped it HIMSELF, but chose not to because of his love for us.
God betrayed - lol. God isn't 'made in the flesh' - he's eternal.

Doesn't compute a trinity. How can they be equal when one sent the other?
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.


States that only the Father knew something that the Son did not. How are they the same?
Matthew 24:36
But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.


To be fair, you still haven't answered how Jesus is God and prayed to God (and the other questions).
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1681632793 04-27-2023, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
God betrayed - lol. God isn't 'made in the flesh' - he's eternal.

Doesn't compute a trinity. How can they be equal when one sent the other?
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.


States that only the Father knew something that the Son did not. How are they the same?
Matthew 24:36
But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.


To be fair, you still haven't answered how Jesus is God and prayed to God (and the other questions).
Then you fail to understand the Holy Trinity. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit = GOD. Three into one, one into three.

Jesus was betrayed by his disciple, Judas.
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post 1681632903 04-27-2023, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted By PaulJerome⏩
Imagine if a parent let his son beat his teacher with a baseball bat, shoot his mom, and burn his father's house down, and did not punish him for it.
But for all eternity? And here's the kicker. What if that son did everything right except for one thing. He told the parent that he doesn't think he can love the parent. Does he deserve to be punished for eternity for that?
When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home.
post 1681633223 04-27-2023, 06:54 PM
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post 1681633313 04-27-2023, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted By PaulJerome⏩
I guess you're saying that Noah was not an OT believer? Noah was saved by faith (Heb 11:7) and he lived prior to Jesus' birth as did all of the OT believers.

As far as the stolen car analogy, you'd have to factor in that the Father and the Son share the same deity. They are different distinct persons but both the same God. Basically, God gave Himself as the payment for sin.

You are the one who stole the car and are now criticizing the father's sense of justice for punishing his son in your place because you think that he should punish you. Did I get that right?

If we ascribe any attributes to God which are contrary to His word then we aren't being truthful. This is akin to making a god that suits us which is a violation of the first commandment (Exo 20:4-6). I think we can agree that truth is truth, no matter what either of us believe; what is true is still the truth even if we disagree.



Jesus laid His life down willingly.

John 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”
How can Noah believe in the OT when the Torah was revealed to Moses who came after?

They do not - if they were the same, they'd have the same knowledge. Rather, the fact that the Father knows something the the Son does not shows that they are not equal - I don't care if it's one thing or everything.

No, I am saying the Paul stole a car from miscer...now in order for miscer to forgive Paul, miscer kills his own son. Somehow the killing justifies your sin. How does two wrongs make this a right? Adam sinning and God killing himself. That's not the God I want to believe is at the same time the most merciful. If God died, who ran the show?

What is mercy and forgiveness - it means you wronged me but I pardon it. To say he is loving and forgiving and at the same time needs blood money to forgive me for something I had nothing to do with makes no sense. If I break a law, I should be responsible and my kids should not suffer at all because of it. I rather follow the religion that goes with my natural inclination.

Spoiler!

Rather, Adam sinned and Allah forgave him.

7:19-23
˹Allah said,˺ “O Adam! Live with your wife in Paradise and eat from wherever you please, but do not approach this tree, or else you will be wrongdoers.”
Then Satan tempted them in order to expose what was hidden of their nakedness. He said, “Your Lord has forbidden this tree to you only to prevent you from becoming angels or immortals.”
And he swore to them, “I am truly your sincere advisor.”
So he brought about their fall through deception. And when they tasted of the tree, their nakedness was exposed to them, prompting them to cover themselves with leaves from Paradise. Then their Lord called out to them, “Did I not forbid you from that tree and ˹did I not˺ tell you that Satan is your sworn enemy?”
They replied, “Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. If You do not forgive us and have mercy on us, we will certainly be losers.”

And God simply forgave them...that's it. That is what forgiveness is.

2:36-37
But Satan deceived them—leading to their fall from the ˹blissful˺ state they were in, and We said, “Descend from the heavens ˹to the earth˺ as enemies to each other. You will find in the earth a residence and provision for your appointed stay.”
Then Adam was inspired with words ˹of prayer˺ by his Lord, so He accepted his repentance. Surely He is the Accepter of Repentance, Most Merciful.
Originally Posted By Tuksonrider⏩
Then you fail to understand the Holy Trinity. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit = GOD. Three into one, one into three.

Jesus was betrayed by his disciple, Judas.
Please, explain how they are all the same and yet one has knowledge the others don't?
I'm sincerely asking you if it makes sense to you. Forget about me, it will never make sense how God prays to God.
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1681633933 04-27-2023, 07:07 PM
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#57
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
How can Noah believe in the OT when the Torah was revealed to Moses who came after?

They do not - if they were the same, they'd have the same knowledge. Rather, the fact that the Father knows something the the Son does not shows that they are not equal - I don't care if it's one thing or everything.

No, I am saying the Paul stole a car from miscer...now in order for miscer to forgive Paul, miscer kills his own son. Somehow the killing justifies your sin. How does two wrongs make this a right? Adam sinning and God killing himself. That's not the God I want to believe is at the same time the most merciful. If God died, who ran the show?

What is mercy and forgiveness - it means you wronged me but I pardon it. To say he is loving and forgiving and at the same time needs blood money to forgive me for something I had nothing to do with makes no sense. If I break a law, I should be responsible and my kids should not suffer at all because of it. I rather follow the religion that goes with my natural inclination.

Spoiler!

Rather, Adam sinned and Allah forgave him.

7:19-23
˹Allah said,˺ “O Adam! Live with your wife in Paradise and eat from wherever you please, but do not approach this tree, or else you will be wrongdoers.”
Then Satan tempted them in order to expose what was hidden of their nakedness. He said, “Your Lord has forbidden this tree to you only to prevent you from becoming angels or immortals.”
And he swore to them, “I am truly your sincere advisor.”
So he brought about their fall through deception. And when they tasted of the tree, their nakedness was exposed to them, prompting them to cover themselves with leaves from Paradise. Then their Lord called out to them, “Did I not forbid you from that tree and ˹did I not˺ tell you that Satan is your sworn enemy?”
They replied, “Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. If You do not forgive us and have mercy on us, we will certainly be losers.”

And God simply forgave them...that's it. That is what forgiveness is.

2:36-37
But Satan deceived them—leading to their fall from the ˹blissful˺ state they were in, and We said, “Descend from the heavens ˹to the earth˺ as enemies to each other. You will find in the earth a residence and provision for your appointed stay.”
Then Adam was inspired with words ˹of prayer˺ by his Lord, so He accepted his repentance. Surely He is the Accepter of Repentance, Most Merciful.
It's apparent that you do not study the Bible. It's one thing to read it, it's another to understand it.
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Thank you, LORD, my God.
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post 1681634263 04-27-2023, 07:11 PM
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#58
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Originally Posted By Tuksonrider⏩
It's apparent that you do not study the Bible. It's one thing to read it, it's another to understand it.
While Bible? Here we go - I've done this a few times and then assumptions are thrown.

@anyone are my points valid or what do you guys think?
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1681634503 04-27-2023, 07:15 PM
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#59
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Originally Posted By PaulJerome⏩
People have died and gone to Hell through NDE's and given accounts of their horrific experience when they came back to life. In as much as it lines up with scripture, I believe these accounts. Some of the fun things going on in hell:

1) you know that you will be there forever and there is zero hope (2 Thes 1:9, Matt 25:46)

2) worms crawl in and out of your skin and through your nose and eyes (Mark 9:48)

3) there are individual chambers (Pro 7:27) so you can hear others scream but cant talk with them

4) the sulfur is so strong in the air that it takes every effort just to get a little bit of air and then you're back to trying to get another little breath (Gen 19:24)

5) you will be in a blazing furnace and you will be weeping and gnashing your teeth. (Matt 13:15)

6) you would do anything for just one drop of water (Luke 16:24)

7) you will understand why you belong there (Luke 16:25)

Laugh about it to your peril. You have been warned!
Yeah not somewhere I want to be
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post 1681634673 04-27-2023, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted By Godfrd824⏩
But for all eternity? And here's the kicker. What if that son did everything right except for one thing. He told the parent that he doesn't think he can love the parent. Does he deserve to be punished for eternity for that?
Credit to both miscrForLulz and Godfrd824 for making good points and for both having some knowledge of the Bible. Both of you have already given thought to this because you bring up good points that need to be answered.

There are three parts to God's personality: Lovingkindness, Judgment, and Righteousness (Jer 9:23-24). God's righteousness is moral perfection and because mankind was created in His image, He demands the same righteousness of us, so yes if someone does everything perfect except for one sin, then they have to be judged by God. There are levels of severity in God's judgment and because of this the man theoretically guilty of only one sin would not suffer as much as others but would still go to Hell for eternity (Luke 12:47-48).

God knew we would all fail. That is why He had to send His Son to pay the price for us. He wants a relationship with you that bad.
Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
How can Noah believe in the OT when the Torah was revealed to Moses who came after?
Heb 11:7 explains that God spoke to Noah and Noah believed. Yes, the Bible wasn't penned until Moses, but God still spoke to His people and they believed.

Explain to me how God can speak and the universe comes into existence. Explain to me how God can exist outside of time in eternity past.

I can only explain to you what the Bible tells us. In this regard, I believe God the same way that Noah did.

God exists in three persons. They are separate persons. They're not the same person, that's Modalism which is not what the Bible teaches. They all existed from eternity past. All share the same deity and all have roles. In Heaven they still exist as distinct persons and are all God.
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