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Forum » Godcels please explain this to me
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Thread: Godcels please explain this to me

post 1686825003 07-19-2023, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted By isingmodel⏩
Free will is the usual defence for this bit. It fails because there's very little evidence of genuine free will in the religious sense (by that I mean, not entirely spurred on by the interaction of your genes and environmental conditions, neither of which you control). And given that humans and other animals are basically pre-programmed already (our social behaviours and tendencies are deeply instilled in us through millions of years of evolution, and they generally lead us to be good and caring) there's no reason to think god couldn't have programmed out some of the really undesirable behaviours completely rather than mostly.

When it comes to trying to explain natural suffering (not caused by humans) the godcels struggle even more, and the answer always is a variation of god working in mysterious ways.
'genes and environment' has never been proven. It's just an explanation for those that don't believe in free will.
post 1686825813 07-19-2023, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted By alahusnakbar⏩
Hahaha perfect, why Islam over Christianity then?
Because God sending his own son (who is himself) to kill himself to save humanity from himself doesn't really make much sense to me.
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
post 1686832983 07-19-2023, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
Because God sending his own son (who is himself) to kill himself to save humanity from himself doesn't really make much sense to me.
God having a son makes perfect sense. It seems like it's one of the first things a God that created mankind in his image would do if he didn't already have a son.
post 1686840833 07-19-2023, 11:20 PM
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God never promised to end suffering in this world. I don't know where you got that he would end evil, end suffering of innocents, end pain, fix all the brokenness of this broken world.

If he did, I'd never came close to ending my life in my past.

What he did promise me,... is that in my pain, he would be there.

And he was there, in the midst of my pain, my suffering.

I opened my heart to him, and freely gave him my heart, my love, and my trust. I lay at his feet my joys, my sufferings, my strengths, my weakness, my pain, my heartache, my own brokenness.

I'm in a different place now. I found peace through him, and with peace, happiness. It doesn't mean I may never again encounter pain and suffering. I probably will, because he said that it will happen. Yet, in any pain and suffering, I know God will be right there with me in the storm.
I'm not blessed with riches, but I am rich with blessings.
Thank you, LORD, my God.
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post 1686841243 07-19-2023, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
Because God sending his own son (who is himself) to kill himself to save humanity from himself doesn't really make much sense to me.
Jesus and the Father are separate beings, One God though..what are you even talking about?
Why are trying to say they are the same.

To OP, I’ve said it before.. Your complaint is that there is suffering. Since you do not know the beginning of the story from the end, you cannot say that the suffering which bothers you so much is not actually the best way for things to be.
post 1686841293 07-19-2023, 11:33 PM
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Your idea is

a) evil exists as a physical property of the world

b) therefore, no meta physic dynamic can make more sense than listlessly not knowing anything
post 1686842113 07-19-2023, 11:58 PM
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Terrible things need to be able to happen.

The universe that has 0% suffering is worse than you can possibly imagine.
post 1686842803 07-20-2023, 12:18 AM
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There's no point asking them questions like this. They don't have any actual answers because their beliefs are not based on evidence or logic. It's all based on feels and "faith"
post 1686844153 07-20-2023, 01:02 AM
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In after mental gymnastics
post 1686846903 07-20-2023, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
Because God sending his own son (who is himself) to kill himself to save humanity from himself doesn't really make much sense to me.
God can do anything actually, since he is God, creator of the Heavens and the earth - the reason for the Messiah is because of how free-will works and how God can't really directly interfere with His creation, since that would make Him a hypocrite.

Any argument that you come up with is faith-based, which you'll always do since you're a muslim.

My argument is that Christianity came 700 years before Islam and Jesus Christ is the Messiah from the Judaic religion whose God is Yahweh from the Old Testament.

The messiah is prophesied in the old testament and eventuated with the arrival of Jesus Christ who warns about anti-Christ(s) 700 years before Muhammad walked the earth.

Will all muslims go to hell? I don't know, but my understanding is that God is the final judge and that we're all going to be judged on our good and bad deeds at some point, and those who passed the test and remained in the image of God, will be resurrected and have eternal life.

The only issue is that it's almost impossible to remain the image of God, so that's why you need Jesus Christ as your Lord and saviour.
Originally Posted By StanRidgway⏩
How do you know?
Read Genesis to understand why there is suffering in the world - the tl;dr of it is that humans chose the knowledge of good and evil over living in a heavenly state, so when they sinned and ate from the forbidden fruit, they got dropped out of the heavenly garden of Eden and entered the physical realm (realised they were naked, etc).
"It's hard to be yourself in a world filled with haters" - WiseOldApe.

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post 1686847143 07-20-2023, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted By StanRidgway⏩
No actually prove it outside of bible verses dumbass.
I can't prove it to you, because it's faith-based - you have to believe that the bible is the Word of God.

If you were going to believe in God, you'd look for proof yourself.

I've been through it all: atheism, new age, hinduism, yoga, demonic possession and in the end I am 125% convinced that God is real and that Jesus Christ really is God in the Flesh.

I can spot a false religion from a mile away now and I say that Christianity is the religion you want to be a part of vss the others.
"It's hard to be yourself in a world filled with haters" - WiseOldApe.

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post 1686847473 07-20-2023, 03:54 AM
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Religion is the highest level of COPE.

That being said, if you believe and do good because of that, then there's nout wrong in believing.
If she vapes, bin her off.

If she smokes, light it up.

Roll on the weekend, sorted.
post 1686847483 07-20-2023, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
Because God sending his own son (who is himself) to kill himself to save humanity from himself doesn't really make much sense to me.
Also if you respect the Old testament but not the New Testament - why doesn't Islam honour the sacrificial laws of Leviticus?

I.e., How does a Muslim atone for their sins?

In the Old Testament sin required the sacrifice of a bull for instance - but due to God Sacrificing Himself through his only BEGOTTEN son, Jesus Christ, us Christians don't need to sacrifice bulls anymore.

That's the whole point of the Old Testament - it shows how lousy humans can be and how the people of Israel kept sinning and needed a messiah - that's what Nim Kippur is and where the word scapegoat comes from.

Jesus Christ is the ULTIMATE scapegoat for the whole of humanity.
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post 1686847803 07-20-2023, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted By zarathu5tra⏩
The day of reckoning will set everything straight. And it'll be a big 'I told you so' when it comes to pass when the evil one, his minions and recruited souls during their life on our planet get sent to oblivion, for eternal.
Day of reconing = random space rock or Sun blowing up.

Brb I told you God was real!
post 1686847843 07-20-2023, 04:19 AM
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well if you read some stuff you'd know that God didn't create suffering nor promised to end suffering except turning back to what was right multiple times, and we know the outcome when that didn't happen, and has some very human like experiences, I also don't think his son was walking around and came here just to die or knew even considering the difference between the book of Matthew and John

in Matthew John the baptist, the son of Elizabeth, would have been close to Jesus, considering Elizabeth and Mary knew each other well, but in John, they have John the Baptist almost immediately telling people that he needed to die or be killed to get rid of sin which doesn't make too much sense for someone who grew up with you like family

in the old testament obviously things ended up getting brutal quite a few times, so possibly let me send my son to try something different, o wait they then kill him too and chase him around


always good to remember that neither John the Baptist nor Jesus Christ wrote any of the Holy Bible that we know of
post 1686847973 07-20-2023, 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted By alahusnakbar⏩
Well that's not a God now is it, that's a wishy-washy word salad you just pulled out your ass.
Hardly. You’re just on lower levels.
''You're a Sick Kunt If You Wanna Bee''
post 1686848333 07-20-2023, 04:44 AM
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post 1686848543 07-20-2023, 04:53 AM
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post 1686848683 07-20-2023, 05:02 AM
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post 1686848833 07-20-2023, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted By alahusnakbar⏩
Why would I put any stock in what the "book of genesis" says.

I can guarantee you that you've NOT read the book of Genesis. How do I know?

Because it does not exist. The 1st book of the corpus that we refer to as the bible is a patchwork of anachronistic parchments that have been mistranslated and cobbled together to such a degree so as to be unrecognisable, taken from the myths and writings that have come before. Thousands of years of COPE and constant editing have resulted in your DisneyTM understanding of the so called book of Genesis.

As I've mentioned before in this thread, I can almost guarantee you don't even understand the FIRST verse of genesis, in the beginning god created the heavens and the earth. The original meaning is something far different to what you've shoehorned into your disney+ belief system.
What makes you think that the modern day translation doesn't match up to what moses brought to light and what the Israelites preserved?

IMO you're just trying to come across as smarter than you actually are - otherwises, why would you care about disproving the bible in the eyes of a believer?



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post 1686848973 07-20-2023, 05:19 AM
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post 1686849143 07-20-2023, 05:28 AM
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post 1686849383 07-20-2023, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted By alahusnakbar⏩
The idea of creation from nothing. There never was a nothing. Just verse 1 and we start to run into inconguencies between what most christians believe and what the actual original language says. The land and the water was already there, there is no creation from nothing.

These ideas were nothing revolutionary for the time, and copied from the similar mythologies of the time from surrounding areas. This parchament just happened to make it into the final edit.
Are you trolling? God was there in the beginning and created all things. God = creator. Heavens (angels) and Earth (trees, animals, and humans) = creation.
Originally Posted By alahusnakbar⏩
No I'm genuinely trying to understand how people can believe. 99% of my family are deep into belife/bible/religion - I've had extreme fundamentalism shoved down my throat from birth and it wasn't a nice experience but that's irrelavent.

There are methods for knowing how one thing is true and another is not. For some reason though, it's cool almost celebrated to throw all that out the window when it comes to religion and a few other things (relationships, politics etc) and cop out with "you just have to believe"
Well I was an atheist and then I was into 'new age', yoga, and hinduism (all mystical religions that work with magic and magic is real SRS) - then that got me into trouble (demonic possession) and Jesus Christ and the Word of God is what saved me from that conundrum.

I was an atheist just a couple of years ago who would argue the same points that you did.
"It's hard to be yourself in a world filled with haters" - WiseOldApe.

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post 1686849443 07-20-2023, 05:40 AM
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post 1686849463 07-20-2023, 05:41 AM
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post 1686850013 07-20-2023, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted By alahusnakbar⏩
There was never "no land" and "no water" God, (one of the gods of the pantheon) created habitable land out of this physical firmament that had always been there which he "inherited". He didn't create the oceans, he separated the firmaments, the waters above and the waters below.

Not "god created the heavens and the (planet) earth".
Well that's not part of my faith - you might be conflating the One true God, The Highest God, Creator of the Heavens and the Earth with a different narrative from a different religion or pantheon of gods.

Like I'd said earlier, you're trying to come across as smarter than you are - like you know something that somebody doesn't making you elite tier or whatever.
Originally Posted By alahusnakbar⏩
You don't have any tangible evidence for your claim that the Bible is the Word of God or that a God exists. If you do I'd love to hear it.
My own experience is enough for me - like for example in my experience when somebody talks the 'show me the evidence' talk, they are usually trying to gaslight you in some way, shape, or form.
"It's hard to be yourself in a world filled with haters" - WiseOldApe.

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post 1686851023 07-20-2023, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted By StanRidgway⏩
How do you know?
How do you not know
post 1686854493 07-20-2023, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted By Rul3⏩
well if you read some stuff you'd know that God didn't create suffering nor promised to end suffering except turning back to what was right multiple times, and we know the outcome when that didn't happen, and has some very human like experiences, I also don't think his son was walking around and came here just to die or knew even considering the difference between the book of Matthew and John

in Matthew John the baptist, the son of Elizabeth, would have been close to Jesus, considering Elizabeth and Mary knew each other well, but in John, they have John the Baptist almost immediately telling people that he needed to die or be killed to get rid of sin which doesn't make too much sense for someone who grew up with you like family

in the old testament obviously things ended up getting brutal quite a few times, so possibly let me send my son to try something different, o wait they then kill him too and chase him around


always good to remember that neither John the Baptist nor Jesus Christ wrote any of the Holy Bible that we know of
The Bible is the inspired word of God, Jesus is God, therefore Bible was written by God
post 1686854683 07-20-2023, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted By StanRidgway⏩
Because I've never been in a universe with 0 suffering and I couldn't possibly imagine it apparently.
But the godpill promises you 40 virgins and all your cats and dogs back in the afterlife. All you have to do is believe and mail 10% of your gross pay to the grand poobah. Who wouldn't want to do that?
post 1686854963 07-20-2023, 07:43 AM
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OP answer me this question;

In this moment, are you euphoric?
Would kick em in the nuts
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