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Forum » What is an "Anti-Establishment" Liberal?
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Thread: What is an "Anti-Establishment" Liberal?

post 1689936103 09-12-2023, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted By miscinbro⏩
Nope, we had a difference of opinion on what our government needed to do.
You are pro-lockdown, pro mask/vaccine mandates, and supported all the restrictions that were placed on the public...... Talk about being anti-establishment.....

Not to mention supporting all the hundreds of billions going to Ukraine.

A country you didn't even give a **** about until you were told to care.
post 1689936543 09-12-2023, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted By miscinbro⏩
I am allowed to have opinion that don’t fit with some checklist, this doesn’t make me pro-establishment. It means I have my own ideas, and I certainly am for a strong US government and impact on the world stage. I remember when that just made me a proud American and patriotic.
How can you claim to be patriotic when you place a higher priority on defending territorial integrity of a country 3,000 miles away, but can’t give a flying fuk about our Southern border being overrun by illegals immigrants?

A patriots #1 concern will ALWAYS be national sovereignty, not protecting special interest groups projects half a world away.
300 Forever
post 1689937063 09-12-2023, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted By Audioslave⏩
Boy does that pendulum swing back and forth. That's not really "anti-establishment" though. Americans ate up their establishment propaganda following 9/11 and then it fell off a cliff and people went "pro-establishment" to "anti-establishment." Not really a party but rather the entire country.... although because there was a Republican POTUS more Democrats went "anti." When a Democrat POTUS is in office it often switches the other way. Ultimately, it comes down to what your political affiliation is/ the political power in office, where you get your news, the state of the country (war, economy, etc), etc.

I would say in recent times Democrats pro-establishment peaked immediately following 9/11 and anti-establishment peaked around the end of 2008-ish. It turned around somewhat as things got better but there was still some moments of Occupy Wall Street and things that left people "anti-establishment." Like I said, the sentiment really comes in waves and isn't universal. True anti-establishment is really abolishing a system of government, and while that idea has been floated around, it has never had much credibility.
It's simply a matter of the establishment picking a side of the political spectrum to exploit to further their agenda while demonizing the other.

They fill the airwaves and internet with propaganda that validates the political demographic they choose to weaponize, then that demographic develops an emotional attachment to the institutions that validate them, thus giving tacit approval for policies that further the establishment's agenda. This demographic then parrots propaganda aimed at demonizing the counter demographic for being critical of the agenda.

When the counter demographic's resistance to the agenda becomes too strong, the Establishment then switches their appeal and validation to the counter demographic. The resistance in the counter demographic dissipates as they become the new weaponized demographic and the previously weaponized demographic becomes the new resistance.

People who are unaware get entangled between the theatrics, while those who are aware remain a permanent resisting demographic.

That's why it's funny to laugh at the anti-GWOT crowd getting gobbled up by establishment propaganda over the last decade. (E.g..1/6 was an insurrection, Slava Ukraini!!).

Once you start noticing, you stop being a victim to these forces and can see the big picture for what it is.
The Era of Great Noticing has begun.
Modern liberalism is morally bankrupt and demonic.
Right wing politics is the new counter-culture.
Wincel: "I'm saying even the govt of China, while brutal at times, is NOT our enemy. Period."
Has Beowulf10 ever experienced true love? Where did he go?
Education is humanity's key to salvation.
The 2nd Cold War has begun.
post 1689937973 09-12-2023, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted By iabs⏩
How can you claim to be patriotic when you place a higher priority on defending territorial integrity of a country 3,000 miles away, but can’t give a flying fuk about our Southern border being overrun by illegals immigrants?

A patriots #1 concern will ALWAYS be national sovereignty, not protecting special interest groups projects half a world away.
Supported vaccine mandates...... Except for the illegals who didn't need the jab.

And it was such a deadly virus that we didn't even secure our southern border....
post 1689938003 09-12-2023, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted By TaeBoNinja⏩
People were definitely not pro-establishment after 9/11 lol. Really the public had been increasingly becoming anti-establishment, until the rise of social media and all these fake orgs like Occupy, BLM, Anitfa. It's now a cultural war
In reference to what we are speaking to, they were 100% "pro-establishment." Keep in mind, OP isn't referring the the establishment itself but when people do or do not buy into establishment propaganda. And following 9/11, people believed in the propaganda. And you can argue it was that propaganda and "pro-establishment" sentiment that paved the way to enter Iraq, which would never have held weight otherwise.
YOU ARE NOT A SLAVE
post 1689938533 09-12-2023, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted By iabs⏩
How can you claim to be patriotic when you place a higher priority on defending territorial integrity of a country 3,000 miles away, but can’t give a flying fuk about our Southern border being overrun by illegals immigrants?

A patriots #1 concern will ALWAYS be national sovereignty, not protecting special interest groups projects half a world away.
This is where he tells you all the policies etc he supports....and then votes the person running opposite that....because something something racism.
post 1689939583 09-12-2023, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted By XterraRob⏩
It's simply a matter of the establishment picking a side of the political spectrum to exploit to further their agenda while demonizing the other.

They fill the airwaves and internet with propaganda that validates the political demographic they choose to weaponize, then that demographic develops an emotional attachment to the institutions that validate them, thus giving tacit approval for policies that further the establishment's agenda. This demographic then parrots propaganda aimed at demonizing the counter demographic for being critical of the agenda.

When the counter demographic's resistance to the agenda becomes too strong, the Establishment then switches their appeal and validation to the counter demographic. The resistance in the counter demographic dissipates as they become the new weaponized demographic and the previously weaponized demographic becomes the new resistance.

People who are unaware get entangled between the theatrics, while those who are aware remain a permanent resisting demographic.

That's why it's funny to laugh at the anti-GWOT crowd getting gobbled up by establishment propaganda over the last decade. (E.g..1/6 was an insurrection, Slava Ukraini!!).

Once you start noticing, you stop being a victim to these forces and can see the big picture for what it is.
Yes and no. These rules don't apply all the time but they do some of the time. The GWOT propaganda wasn't really targeting people internally to exploit or demonize - same with War on Drugs propaganda. We reflect back and call the GWOT and War on Drugs to be right wing debacles because of the political party that implemented them but it doesn't mean many on the left weren't in favor of them at the time. It's always the Monday morning QB situation though.

Like I said before, almost no one is really "anti-establishment" but rather the Democrats favor different establishments from Republicans. You'll find far more Republicans trusting establishments of religion, financial institutions, and local law enforcement than you would Democrats. And you'll find far more Democrats trusting establishments of higher education, labor unions, media, etc. than you would Republicans. All of these, whether it's religion, education, etc., have their own forms of propaganda that they release and the people who have more favorable views of them tend to believe them more.

I think this is a very human issue because there are emotional ties to it. I think the problem is both sides believe that the other is the one exposed to and believing institutional propaganda, when in reality both are - just from different sources.
YOU ARE NOT A SLAVE
post 1689943043 09-12-2023, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted By Audioslave⏩
Yes and no. These rules don't apply all the time but they do some of the time. The GWOT propaganda wasn't really targeting people internally to exploit or demonize - same with War on Drugs propaganda. We reflect back and call the GWOT and War on Drugs to be right wing debacles because of the political party that implemented them but it doesn't mean many on the left weren't in favor of them at the time. It's always the Monday morning QB situation though.

Like I said before, almost no one is really "anti-establishment" but rather the Democrats favor different establishments from Republicans. You'll find far more Republicans trusting establishments of religion, financial institutions, and local law enforcement than you would Democrats. And you'll find far more Democrats trusting establishments of higher education, labor unions, media, etc. than you would Republicans. All of these, whether it's religion, education, etc., have their own forms of propaganda that they release and the people who have more favorable views of them tend to believe them more.

I think this is a very human issue because there are emotional ties to it. I think the problem is both sides believe that the other is the one exposed to and believing institutional propaganda, when in reality both are - just from different sources.
The machine that is behind Washington, and even behind Corporate America has an agenda. It creates propaganda to support its agenda and to demonize resistance. The utilization and manipulation of political parties and industries is very much instrumental in the application of that agenda as a means to an end.

The sub-establishments that you describe are just institutions along for the theatrics, and the profiteering as needed. The sub-establishments that people attach themselves to or that they oppose, are fluid and relative to the Establishment propaganda they consume, or oppose.

Look at the COVID-19 agenda,somemembers of Congress may have been outspoken, but they were all provided with financial backing from Big Pharma. And Big Pharma and MSM were the vehicles for the Establishment to push through more tyranny on the world via COVID fear (same with GWOT, terrorism fear, & the Patriot Act).

The propaganda, while directed at everyone for mass consumption, was championed by the previously anti-Big Pharma Left because they are currently the favored demographic to help further the Establishment's agenda. Ukraine propaganda, while directed at everyone, is another example of Establishment propaganda championed by the Left due to sentiment capture.

You can tell which direction the Establishment is going by the unified actions of Congress, Corporate America, and the promoted sentiment across all forms of media. This hasn't always been the case, but more-so since the end of Bretton Woods (in my opinion). Maybe since the creation of the Fed?

Rs and Ds calling 1/6 an insurrection and baiting Trump supporters for a photo/propaganda opportunity? Definitely Establishment shenanigans.
The Era of Great Noticing has begun.
Modern liberalism is morally bankrupt and demonic.
Right wing politics is the new counter-culture.
Wincel: "I'm saying even the govt of China, while brutal at times, is NOT our enemy. Period."
Has Beowulf10 ever experienced true love? Where did he go?
Education is humanity's key to salvation.
The 2nd Cold War has begun.
post 1689943053 09-12-2023, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
An “anti-establishment” liberal is someone who is actually a foot soldier for the establishment, but has been convinced to go out and “fight nazis” for the system. This means they will promote whatever social, political, corporate, or military agenda as long as their tribe tells them to. Censorship is now not only good, but crucial to survival. Big pharma good. Big government good. MIC good. Big tech good. So naturally anyone who pushes against the agenda of any of those must be bad.
isnt that also a useful idiot?
post 1689945943 09-12-2023, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted By XterraRob⏩
Do you believe Osama planned and executed 9/11, that Saddam had WMDs, and that we weren't in the Middle East for oil?
I was always against both wars in the Middle East. Back then people with voting records like you called me an unpatriotic ******* for it.
post 1689946073 09-12-2023, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted By Bushmaster⏩
LMAO!!! Right... capitalism is BAD!
Why are you so dishonest all the time? I never said that - at all.
post 1689946343 09-12-2023, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted By iabs⏩
How can you claim to be patriotic when you place a higher priority on defending territorial integrity of a country 3,000 miles away, but can’t give a flying fuk about our Southern border being overrun by illegals immigrants?

A patriots #1 concern will ALWAYS be national sovereignty, not protecting special interest groups projects half a world away.
It’s not a zero-sum game. And I am for a secure border, it simply has to exist in this day and age. I however am not afraid of Mexicans, hearing Spanish doesn’t fill me with rage, and I don’t hate people trying to make a better life for themselves and their families.

Russia and China are our largest two geopolitical rivals ATM. If Ukraine wants to fight them HAM I fully support helping them. It’s also making NATO stronger than we have seen since the Cold War. A patriot would like being at the head of the strongest military alliance in the world.
post 1689946823 09-12-2023, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted By miscinbro⏩
Why are you so dishonest all the time? I never said that - at all.
...
Originally Posted By miscinbro⏩
I’m anti-establishment in the sense that I believe our current form of “capitalism” is fcking 99% of us.
- Claims capitalism is fuking us

- Totally on board with the river of free money to Ukraine.

And the funny thing is you expect to be taken seriously lol.
It's a hot night. The mind races. You think about your knife: the only friend who hasn't betrayed you, the only friend who won't be dead by sunup. Sleep tight mates, in your quilted chambray night shirts.
post 1689947013 09-12-2023, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted By Bushmaster⏩
...



- Claims capitalism is fuking us

- Totally on board with the river of free money to Ukraine.

And the funny thing is you expect to be taken seriously lol.
So, just ignorant is your defense?

“Quotation marks around single words can occasionally be used for emphasis, but only when quoting a word or term someone else used. Usually, this implies that the author doesn't agree with the use of the term. He said he was “working”; it looked to me like he was procrastinating.”
post 1689947093 09-12-2023, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted By XterraRob⏩
The machine that is behind Washington, and even behind Corporate America has an agenda. It creates propaganda to support its agenda and to demonize resistance. The utilization and manipulation of political parties and industries is very much instrumental in the application of that agenda as a means to an end.

The sub-establishments that you describe are just institutions along for the theatrics, and the profiteering as needed. The sub-establishments that people attach themselves to or that they oppose, are fluid and relative to the Establishment propaganda they consume, or oppose.

Look at the COVID-19 agenda,somemembers of Congress may have been outspoken, but they were all provided with financial backing from Big Pharma. And Big Pharma and MSM were the vehicles for the Establishment to push through more tyranny on the world via COVID fear (same with GWOT, terrorism fear, & the Patriot Act).

The propaganda, while directed at everyone for mass consumption, was championed by the previously anti-Big Pharma Left because they are currently the favored demographic to help further the Establishment's agenda. Ukraine propaganda, while directed at everyone, is another example of Establishment propaganda championed by the Left due to sentiment capture.

You can tell which direction the Establishment is going by the unified actions of Congress, Corporate America, and the promoted sentiment across all forms of media. This hasn't always been the case, but more-so since the end of Bretton Woods (in my opinion). Maybe since the creation of the Fed?

Rs and Ds calling 1/6 an insurrection and baiting Trump supporters for a photo/propaganda opportunity? Definitely Establishment shenanigans.
I mean... I do agree with parts of what you're saying, however I think you're downplaying the sub-establishments a bit too much. Those sub-establishments are the ones lobbying the government establishment and using the government for self profit. And yes, even religious organizations do this by trying to bribe politicians with voters. They aren't the only ones though. Like you said, pharma is one, financial institutions are another, media, energy, labor unions, etc. all have an agenda they are trying to fulfill with government help, and they have the means to influence the government to carry them out. Whether that is by helping with getting voters, private jobs ($$), etc. is irrelevant as they are trying to push their agenda through the government establishment. And to me, that is really the issue as to why there is corruption within the government establishment - because it is used as a vehicle for sub-establishments to enrich themselves and fulfill their ideologies. That is what mostly undermines our system of government. Take away all the sub-establishments (or at least reduce their exposure to the government establishment) and you would have a much cleaner system of government.

Anyway that's my feeling on it.
YOU ARE NOT A SLAVE
post 1689947233 09-12-2023, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted By miscinbro⏩
So, just ignorant is your defense?

“Quotation marks around single words can occasionally be used for emphasis, but only when quoting a word or term someone else used. Usually, this implies that the author doesn't agree with the use of the term. He said he was “working”; it looked to me like he was procrastinating.”
Ok then.. Tell me how capitalism is fuking us.

In before Bernie Sanders talking points of something something wall street and big corporations..
It's a hot night. The mind races. You think about your knife: the only friend who hasn't betrayed you, the only friend who won't be dead by sunup. Sleep tight mates, in your quilted chambray night shirts.
post 1689947553 09-12-2023, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted By miscinbro⏩
I was always against both wars in the Middle East. Back then people with voting records like you called me an unpatriotic ******* for it.
We shouldn't have gone into Afghanistan? What should we have done instead?

Iraq is a different story, only now do we realize you need someone like Saddam in charge of savages.
post 1689947673 09-12-2023, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted By miscinbro⏩
I was always against both wars in the Middle East. Back then people with voting records like you called me an unpatriotic ******* for it.
But you're PRO war in Ukraine... Aren't you.
It's a hot night. The mind races. You think about your knife: the only friend who hasn't betrayed you, the only friend who won't be dead by sunup. Sleep tight mates, in your quilted chambray night shirts.
post 1689947683 09-12-2023, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted By miscinbro⏩
It’s not a zero-sum game. And I am for a secure border, it simply has to exist in this day and age. I however am not afraid of Mexicans, hearing Spanish doesn’t fill me with rage, and I don’t hate people trying to make a better life for themselves and their families.

Russia and China are our largest two geopolitical rivals ATM. If Ukraine wants to fight them HAM I fully support helping them. It’s also making NATO stronger than we have seen since the Cold War. A patriot would like being at the head of the strongest military alliance in the world.
So your opinion on the migrant "emergencies?"
post 1689947853 09-12-2023, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted By miscinbro⏩
I was always against both wars in the Middle East. Back then people with voting records like you called me an unpatriotic ******* for it.
Why were you against our involvement during GWOT?
Did you believe Saddam had WMDs?
That Osama planned and executed it all?
That we weren't there for oil?

I was against the GWOT because I recognized it was Establishment bullsh*t as early as 2001.
The Era of Great Noticing has begun.
Modern liberalism is morally bankrupt and demonic.
Right wing politics is the new counter-culture.
Wincel: "I'm saying even the govt of China, while brutal at times, is NOT our enemy. Period."
Has Beowulf10 ever experienced true love? Where did he go?
Education is humanity's key to salvation.
The 2nd Cold War has begun.
post 1689948493 09-12-2023, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted By Audioslave⏩
I mean... I do agree with parts of what you're saying, however I think you're downplaying the sub-establishments a bit too much. Those sub-establishments are the ones lobbying the government establishment and using the government for self profit. And yes, even religious organizations do this by trying to bribe politicians with voters. They aren't the only ones though. Like you said, pharma is one, financial institutions are another, media, energy, labor unions, etc. all have an agenda they are trying to fulfill with government help, and they have the means to influence the government to carry them out. Whether that is by helping with getting voters, private jobs ($$), etc. is irrelevant as they are trying to push their agenda through the government establishment. And to me, that is really the issue as to why there is corruption within the government establishment - because it is used as a vehicle for sub-establishments to enrich themselves and fulfill their ideologies. That is what mostly undermines our system of government. Take away all the sub-establishments (or at least reduce their exposure to the government establishment) and you would have a much cleaner system of government.

Anyway that's my feeling on it.
I think the difference between your view and mine is that I believe there's a level of power beyond Corporate America and the Government, and you believe the Establishment is confined to Corporate America and Government.
The Era of Great Noticing has begun.
Modern liberalism is morally bankrupt and demonic.
Right wing politics is the new counter-culture.
Wincel: "I'm saying even the govt of China, while brutal at times, is NOT our enemy. Period."
Has Beowulf10 ever experienced true love? Where did he go?
Education is humanity's key to salvation.
The 2nd Cold War has begun.
post 1689948643 09-12-2023, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted By XterraRob⏩
I think the difference between your view and mine is that I believe there's a level of power beyond Corporate America and the Government, and you believe the Establishment is confined to Corporate America and Government.
Yes, I was thinking the same thing. I believe the power that you say is behind the Government Establishment was created and nurtured by corporate America. And it is corporate America that has the means, influence, access, etc., to push their agenda, override the will of voters, etc.
YOU ARE NOT A SLAVE
post 1689950433 09-12-2023, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted By Audioslave⏩
Yes, I was thinking the same thing. I believe the power that you say is behind the Government Establishment was created and nurtured by corporate America. And it is corporate America that has the means, influence, access, etc., to push their agenda, override the will of voters, etc.
I've always leaned more towards this:

The Era of Great Noticing has begun.
Modern liberalism is morally bankrupt and demonic.
Right wing politics is the new counter-culture.
Wincel: "I'm saying even the govt of China, while brutal at times, is NOT our enemy. Period."
Has Beowulf10 ever experienced true love? Where did he go?
Education is humanity's key to salvation.
The 2nd Cold War has begun.
post 1689955063 09-12-2023, 04:22 PM
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Nothing encapsulates "anti-establishment" quite like these photos do, son:











Deepfat: "I guarantee I beat you by at least 6 strokes. Afterwards, I'll slide my thick conservative cawk in your old lady just to finish the job."

z4: "So when are you available in September to play?"

Deep: "On second thought, I don't play golf with broads. You're such a scumbag that I'd be much more inclined to just slap the chit out of you."

z4: "MMA match works, too. So when are you available this month?

Deep: "I won't subject myself to being in the presence of a scumbag."
post 1689955223 09-12-2023, 04:25 PM
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#55
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Originally Posted By z4v4⏩
Nothing encapsulates "anti-establishment" quite like these photos do, son:











But bruh.... that was when Trump was a Democrat. I mean he wouldn't just switch parties because Republican voters are easily duped by fake news would he?
post 1689956403 09-12-2023, 04:57 PM
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#56
  1. Dave22reborn
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Originally Posted By z4v4⏩
Nothing encapsulates "anti-establishment" quite like these photos do, son:











Politicians hanging out with a billionaire???? I'm shocked, shocked I tell ya.
post 1689957363 09-12-2023, 05:17 PM
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#57
  1. BullittEV
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Originally Posted By miscinbro⏩
I however am not afraid of Mexicans, hearing Spanish doesn’t fill me with rage, and I don’t hate people trying to make a better life for themselves and their families.
You actually think people like me are afraid of Mexican people and really all the southern border issue is about keeping everyone out because we dont like Mexicans.

Think about what I just said and realize how ridiculous it is that youd actually think that wasnt a bipartisan stance. That's nuts.
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post 1689957583 09-12-2023, 05:21 PM
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#58
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Originally Posted By iabs⏩
How can you claim to be patriotic when you place a higher priority on defending territorial integrity of a country 3,000 miles away, but can’t give a flying fuk about our Southern border being overrun by illegals immigrants?

A patriots #1 concern will ALWAYS be national sovereignty, not protecting special interest groups projects half a world away.
He will care hard about national sovereignty after they get enough "new" democrats over the border...
Hey Timmy, show us on the boy doll where the tampon goes...
post 1689957593 09-12-2023, 05:21 PM
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#59
  1. miscinbro
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Originally Posted By BullittEV⏩
You actually think people like me are afraid of Mexican people and really all the southern border issue is about keeping everyone out because we dont like Mexicans.

Think about what I just said and realize how ridiculous it is that youd actually think that wasnt a bipartisan stance. That's nuts.
I would be highly surprised if you were, especially if you live in SD and serve/ed in the military. But don’t tell me they don’t exist. They certainly do here. We have countless threads about “what happens when we aren’t majority white” - “interracial marriage is an epidemic” - and those are the mild ones.

What I don’t get about you is you edited out the part where I literally state I agree we need a secure border. It’s like it’s important to you to think the worst us someone like me at all costs.
post 1689958123 09-12-2023, 05:30 PM
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#60
  1. BullittEV
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Originally Posted By miscinbro⏩
I would be highly surprised if you were, especially if you live in SD and serve/ed in the military. But don’t tell me they don’t exist. They certainly do here. We have countless threads about “what happens when we aren’t majority white” - “interracial marriage is an epidemic” - and those are the mild ones.

What I don’t get about you is you edited out the part where I literally state I agree we need a secure border. It’s like it’s important to you to think the worst us someone like me at all costs.
Whether you agree on the border has nothing to do with the fact that you think a majority of Trump voters are scared of Mexicans. I just thought that part was crazy. If you cant weed out the few nutjobs and their alts on this forum, idk what to say. Theres nobody in congress that supports locking down the border because "theys mexican!" Trump voters support stronger border security/vetting and it has ZERO to do with the persons skin.

The irony of you saying its important to view you as the worst in the same breath you think most Trumpers hate non-white people is great, too. I mean, come on lol
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