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The "Product of Your Environment" Double Standard
07-29-2020, 08:56 AM
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#1
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The "Product of Your Environment" Double Standard
Let's try to approach this conversation as logically and unemotionally as possible. If you feel that I've framed this thread/scenario in an unfair or racially motivated way please let me know and we can work together to correct it.
Below are three scenarios:
Scenario 1- A baby ends up in the foster care system. This child grows up with foster parents that sexually abuse the child for years. This child grows up to be a paedophile due to his living conditions as a child. When caught, this person (let's just say it's a white male since lettuce be cereal here, it seems like that's the case more often than not) is widely condemned for their actions. This person person receives a hefty prison sentence.
Scenario 2- A child grows up in a home in which a family member is physically abused and eventually the physical abuse is carried out upon the child. This child is also bullied all throughout school. This child grows up and gets married. This child now inflicts the abuse that he/she endured as a child on others., possibly a spouse or child. When caught, this person (honestly for this one, I don't think race or sex comes into play much but feel free to chime in if you disagree) is widely condemned for their actions. This person loses their job and is also sent to prison
Scenario 3- A child grows up in a bad neighborhood and is surrounded by drug abuse, drug sales and violence. This child also lacks a strong authority figure in their life. This child grows up and falls into the same type of behavior that was seen growing up and starts selling hard drugs. (let's say that this is a black male since this is the issue a lot of young black males face) This person eventually has a run in with the police and gets into a shootout and is killed. However, this person is condemned to less of an extent than the previous two.
So here you have 3 children, all of whom were dealt a terrible hand in life and ended up doing things that for the most part society condemns. My question is, why is one person treated more gently than the other two? Why is one person a product of their environment but the other two aren't seen in the same light?
Again please try to approach this with logic. If you feel that if represented this unfairly please chime in.
Below are three scenarios:
Scenario 1- A baby ends up in the foster care system. This child grows up with foster parents that sexually abuse the child for years. This child grows up to be a paedophile due to his living conditions as a child. When caught, this person (let's just say it's a white male since lettuce be cereal here, it seems like that's the case more often than not) is widely condemned for their actions. This person person receives a hefty prison sentence.
Scenario 2- A child grows up in a home in which a family member is physically abused and eventually the physical abuse is carried out upon the child. This child is also bullied all throughout school. This child grows up and gets married. This child now inflicts the abuse that he/she endured as a child on others., possibly a spouse or child. When caught, this person (honestly for this one, I don't think race or sex comes into play much but feel free to chime in if you disagree) is widely condemned for their actions. This person loses their job and is also sent to prison
Scenario 3- A child grows up in a bad neighborhood and is surrounded by drug abuse, drug sales and violence. This child also lacks a strong authority figure in their life. This child grows up and falls into the same type of behavior that was seen growing up and starts selling hard drugs. (let's say that this is a black male since this is the issue a lot of young black males face) This person eventually has a run in with the police and gets into a shootout and is killed. However, this person is condemned to less of an extent than the previous two.
So here you have 3 children, all of whom were dealt a terrible hand in life and ended up doing things that for the most part society condemns. My question is, why is one person treated more gently than the other two? Why is one person a product of their environment but the other two aren't seen in the same light?
Again please try to approach this with logic. If you feel that if represented this unfairly please chime in.
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07-29-2020, 09:02 AM
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Scenario 4 - OP is a *******
07-29-2020, 09:06 AM
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#3
- brosapiens
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07-29-2020, 09:08 AM
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#4
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Originally Posted By meanstringbean⏩
Bro I'd neg you but Starfox is one of my all time favorite games. And by bro, I mean never my bro, *******.Scenario 4 - OP is a *******
Originally Posted By brosapiens⏩
que?JFL if you think that being ghey is genetic ... SRS
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07-29-2020, 09:26 AM
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#5
07-29-2020, 09:28 AM
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#6
Until very recently I would say that the person from scenario 3, regardless of race, was arguably the most vilified of those scenarios. I say regardless of race because people tend to say that people who end up in a life of crime "get what they deserve" more often than not. I've heard this applied to people from the ghetto and rednecks alike, for example. People have no sympathy for criminals and seem to believe that prisons should be used to punish them for their crimes rather than rehabilitate them and give them practical life skills.
Until recently cops were able to get away with all kinds of gross miscarriages of justice like sexual misconduct, unnecessary violence, racially motivated beatings/killings, planting evidence, etc. Only now has society at large started to hold cops accountable. We should be able to sympathize with them to a degree, but they have to be held to a higher standard since they are choosing to enter a job that gives them huge power over ordinary citizens and one that's about upholding the law and protecting the citizens. The only solution to this, IMO, is having more stringent selection criteria and improved training.
Ultimately, we shouldn't be so quick to pass judgment on people. Of course there needs to be accountability for crimes and misconduct, but we should also try to look at how people came to commit those things and try and understand them so we can prevent them in the future and help those who are suffering from similar misfortunes. I think we have a tendency to condemn people and write them off far too quickly. I guess it comes down to having compassion for one another.
Until recently cops were able to get away with all kinds of gross miscarriages of justice like sexual misconduct, unnecessary violence, racially motivated beatings/killings, planting evidence, etc. Only now has society at large started to hold cops accountable. We should be able to sympathize with them to a degree, but they have to be held to a higher standard since they are choosing to enter a job that gives them huge power over ordinary citizens and one that's about upholding the law and protecting the citizens. The only solution to this, IMO, is having more stringent selection criteria and improved training.
Ultimately, we shouldn't be so quick to pass judgment on people. Of course there needs to be accountability for crimes and misconduct, but we should also try to look at how people came to commit those things and try and understand them so we can prevent them in the future and help those who are suffering from similar misfortunes. I think we have a tendency to condemn people and write them off far too quickly. I guess it comes down to having compassion for one another.
07-29-2020, 09:32 AM
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#7
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Probably because people expect a violent career criminal (Scenario 3) to behave like a violent career criminal, but don't expect (scenario 2) a Police officer to behave like a violent career criminal.
We hold police officers to a higher standard of conduct, than a violent career criminal.
Just like we hold politicians to a higher standard of conduct, than a random person in the street, due to the power and authority bestowed to them.
Though to he honest, I think it's only in America in 2020 where police are hated on a widescale publicly. I don't see that in other nations.
We hold police officers to a higher standard of conduct, than a violent career criminal.
Just like we hold politicians to a higher standard of conduct, than a random person in the street, due to the power and authority bestowed to them.
Though to he honest, I think it's only in America in 2020 where police are hated on a widescale publicly. I don't see that in other nations.
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07-29-2020, 09:34 AM
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#8
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Originally Posted By LordBroly⏩
IMO prision SHOULD be for reforming people who have the ability to change. To me, there are a lot of people in prison who cannot change and would never be interested in being a decent citizen. I think there are better places for them to exist and hell is definitely one of themUntil very recently I would say that the person from scenario 3, regardless of race, was arguably the most vilified of those scenarios. I say regardless of race because people tend to say that people who end up in a life of crime "get what they deserve" more often than not. I've heard this applied to people from the ghetto and rednecks alike, for example. People have no sympathy for criminals and seem to believe that prisons should be used to punish them for their crimes rather than rehabilitate them and give them practical life skills.
Until recently cops were able to get away with all kinds of gross miscarriages of justice like sexual misconduct, unnecessary violence, racially motivated beatings/killings, planting evidence, etc. Only now has society at large started to hold cops accountable. We should be able to sympathize with them to a degree, but they have to be held to a higher standard since they are choosing to enter a job that gives them huge power over ordinary citizens and one that's about upholding the law and protecting the citizens. The only solution to this, IMO, is having more stringent selection criteria and improved training.
Ultimately, we shouldn't be so quick to pass judgment on people. Of course there needs to be accountability for crimes and misconduct, but we should also try to look at how people came to commit those things and try and understand them so we can prevent them in the future and help those who are suffering from similar misfortunes. I think we have a tendency to condemn people and write them off far too quickly. I guess it comes down to having compassion for one another.
Until recently cops were able to get away with all kinds of gross miscarriages of justice like sexual misconduct, unnecessary violence, racially motivated beatings/killings, planting evidence, etc. Only now has society at large started to hold cops accountable. We should be able to sympathize with them to a degree, but they have to be held to a higher standard since they are choosing to enter a job that gives them huge power over ordinary citizens and one that's about upholding the law and protecting the citizens. The only solution to this, IMO, is having more stringent selection criteria and improved training.
Ultimately, we shouldn't be so quick to pass judgment on people. Of course there needs to be accountability for crimes and misconduct, but we should also try to look at how people came to commit those things and try and understand them so we can prevent them in the future and help those who are suffering from similar misfortunes. I think we have a tendency to condemn people and write them off far too quickly. I guess it comes down to having compassion for one another.
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07-29-2020, 09:35 AM
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#9
- LovePollution
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SJWs will say that scenario 3 is the fault of white people for racism and having privilege. They'll argue that the kid had no choice but to follow that route.
How dare you!
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07-29-2020, 09:41 AM
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#10
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Originally Posted By LordBroly⏩
I 100% agree with everything you posted, well said man. How about if Scenario 2 was not a police officer but perhaps just an abusive husband or another type of abuser without authority?Until very recently I would say that the person from scenario 3, regardless of race, was arguably the most vilified of those scenarios. I say regardless of race because people tend to say that people who end up in a life of crime "get what they deserve" more often than not. I've heard this applied to people from the ghetto and rednecks alike, for example. People have no sympathy for criminals and seem to believe that prisons should be used to punish them for their crimes rather than rehabilitate them and give them practical life skills.
Until recently cops were able to get away with all kinds of gross miscarriages of justice like sexual misconduct, unnecessary violence, racially motivated beatings/killings, planting evidence, etc. Only now has society at large started to hold cops accountable. We should be able to sympathize with them to a degree, but they have to be held to a higher standard since they are choosing to enter a job that gives them huge power over ordinary citizens and one that's about upholding the law and protecting the citizens. The only solution to this, IMO, is having more stringent selection criteria and improved training.
Ultimately, we shouldn't be so quick to pass judgment on people. Of course there needs to be accountability for crimes and misconduct, but we should also try to look at how people came to commit those things and try and understand them so we can prevent them in the future and help those who are suffering from similar misfortunes. I think we have a tendency to condemn people and write them off far too quickly. I guess it comes down to having compassion for one another.
Until recently cops were able to get away with all kinds of gross miscarriages of justice like sexual misconduct, unnecessary violence, racially motivated beatings/killings, planting evidence, etc. Only now has society at large started to hold cops accountable. We should be able to sympathize with them to a degree, but they have to be held to a higher standard since they are choosing to enter a job that gives them huge power over ordinary citizens and one that's about upholding the law and protecting the citizens. The only solution to this, IMO, is having more stringent selection criteria and improved training.
Ultimately, we shouldn't be so quick to pass judgment on people. Of course there needs to be accountability for crimes and misconduct, but we should also try to look at how people came to commit those things and try and understand them so we can prevent them in the future and help those who are suffering from similar misfortunes. I think we have a tendency to condemn people and write them off far too quickly. I guess it comes down to having compassion for one another.
Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
I completely agree. How about if Scenario 2 was not a police officer but perhaps just an abusive husband or another type of abuser without authority?Probably because people expect a violent career criminal (Scenario 3) to behave like a violent career criminal, but don't expect (scenario 2) a Police officer to behave like a violent career criminal.
We hold police officers to a higher standard of conduct, than a violent career criminal.
Just like we hold politicians to a higher standard of conduct, than a random person in the street, due to the power and authority bestowed to them.
Though to he honest, I think it's only in America in 2020 where police are hated on a widescale publicly. I don't see that in other nations.
We hold police officers to a higher standard of conduct, than a violent career criminal.
Just like we hold politicians to a higher standard of conduct, than a random person in the street, due to the power and authority bestowed to them.
Though to he honest, I think it's only in America in 2020 where police are hated on a widescale publicly. I don't see that in other nations.
Originally Posted By RobParks2M⏩
I can also agree with this in some cases. Some people simply cannot be completely reformed.IMO prision SHOULD be for reforming people who have the ability to change. To me, there are a lot of people in prison who cannot change and would never be interested in being a decent citizen. I think there are better places for them to exist and hell is definitely one of them
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07-29-2020, 09:42 AM
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#11
Originally Posted By RobParks2M⏩
That's fair. There is a percentage of the prison population that is probably beyond redemption in any practical sense. But the vast majority are people who just wound up there due to poor decision making, few/bad options in life and retarded laws. A large percent of the prison population is in for low-level drug possession, for example. And by all accounts, once they're in they go from being petty dealers to pretty hardened criminals. So I think it's time society and government stopped looking at punishment as the aim of prison because the evidence seems to say it's not working.IMO prision SHOULD be for reforming people who have the ability to change. To me, there are a lot of people in prison who cannot change and would never be interested in being a decent citizen. I think there are better places for them to exist and hell is definitely one of them
Originally Posted By AvengeMe⏩
Thanks, man. In that case I don't know. I think that's a little more complicated. I have heard that people who grow up in abusive households/environments are more likely to become abusers themselves. Whether they do it to exact revenge or because they think it's a normal form of interaction, I don't know but maybe some form of counseling could be implemented. Depending on the severity of the abuse, I think prison is an option in that case. Like I said, though, I don't know too much about abuse/abusers so I don't have a good answer for you.I 100% agree with everything you posted, well said man. How about if Scenario 2 was not a police officer but perhaps just an abusive husband or another type of abuser without authority
07-29-2020, 09:43 AM
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#12
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Originally Posted By LovePollution⏩
While I certainly don't discount the fact that blacks today likely are still a bit hamstrung from past policies or inter-generational wealth issues stemming from slavery, there has to come a time when personal agency is taken into account.SJWs will say that scenario 3 is the fault of white people for racism and having privilege. They'll argue that the kid had no choice but to follow that route.
For example:
I was sexually abused by a neighbor as a child
My parents split up when I was 7-8
My mother died when I was 11
My father is a recovered drug addict, I can remember my uncle stealing my piggy bank for drugs as a child and I just recently was in a family members wedding that was strung out for their own wedding.
By all of today's standards/excuses I should be a drug addicted abuser with no future. Instead I'm in a healthy relationship and have a well paying career in the IT field.
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07-29-2020, 09:48 AM
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#13
Scenario 1: Because emotion, this kind of behaviour is so hardwired to be completely inexplicable and abhorrent to the average person that you cannot remove emotion from the equation
Scenario 2: Because police need to be held to a higher standard. Police are more vilified for their actions because society sees it as a breach of trust from figures who are supposed to be protecting them. All they can think is that if the justice system is broken in such a way then they are not safe themselves regardless of how innocent/guilty they are. It makes them question the stability of their own basic rights and safety
Scenario 3: People tend to care less if criminals kill other criminals. Also gang members, drug dealers etc are already by default looked down upon for their actions. Therefore their crimes are seen as in keeping with their character and although may be equally bad, are considered less of a shock and worth less attention
Scenario 2: Because police need to be held to a higher standard. Police are more vilified for their actions because society sees it as a breach of trust from figures who are supposed to be protecting them. All they can think is that if the justice system is broken in such a way then they are not safe themselves regardless of how innocent/guilty they are. It makes them question the stability of their own basic rights and safety
Scenario 3: People tend to care less if criminals kill other criminals. Also gang members, drug dealers etc are already by default looked down upon for their actions. Therefore their crimes are seen as in keeping with their character and although may be equally bad, are considered less of a shock and worth less attention
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07-29-2020, 09:53 AM
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#14
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Originally Posted By AlexSays⏩
Ok revisit this with Scenario 2 being an abusive spouse or some other person without authority.Scenario 1: Because emotion, this kind of behaviour is so hardwired to be completely inexplicable and abhorrent to the average person that you cannot remove emotion from the equation
Scenario 2: Because police need to be held to a higher standard. Police are more vilified for their actions because society sees it as a breach of trust from figures who are supposed to be protecting them. All they can think is that if the justice system is broken in such a way then they are not safe themselves regardless of how innocent/guilty they are. It makes them question the stability of their own basic rights and safety
Scenario 3: People tend to care less if criminals kill other criminals. Also gang members, drug dealers etc are already by default looked down upon for their actions. Therefore their crimes are seen as in keeping with their character and although may be equally bad, are considered less of a shock and worth less attention
Scenario 2: Because police need to be held to a higher standard. Police are more vilified for their actions because society sees it as a breach of trust from figures who are supposed to be protecting them. All they can think is that if the justice system is broken in such a way then they are not safe themselves regardless of how innocent/guilty they are. It makes them question the stability of their own basic rights and safety
Scenario 3: People tend to care less if criminals kill other criminals. Also gang members, drug dealers etc are already by default looked down upon for their actions. Therefore their crimes are seen as in keeping with their character and although may be equally bad, are considered less of a shock and worth less attention
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07-29-2020, 09:53 AM
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#15
Originally Posted By AvengeMe⏩
Damn, that's a really rough life. How did you make it through, do you think? Were there any positive role models in your life that you could look to, or maybe a lucky break? How long did it take you to make it to what seems like a good/stable place? Either way, good stuff man. Very inspirational.I was sexually abused by a neighbor as a child
My parents split up when I was 7-8
My mother died when I was 11
My father is a recovered drug addict, I can remember my uncle stealing my piggy bank for drugs as a child and I just recently was in a family members wedding that was strung out for their own wedding.
By all of today's standards/excuses I should be a drug addicted abuser with no future. Instead I'm in a healthy relationship and have a well paying career in the IT field.
My parents split up when I was 7-8
My mother died when I was 11
My father is a recovered drug addict, I can remember my uncle stealing my piggy bank for drugs as a child and I just recently was in a family members wedding that was strung out for their own wedding.
By all of today's standards/excuses I should be a drug addicted abuser with no future. Instead I'm in a healthy relationship and have a well paying career in the IT field.
07-29-2020, 09:53 AM
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#16
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Originally Posted By AvengeMe⏩
You were born into privilege by virtue of being white and are disregarding the effects of systemic racism. You cant see what its like to be a black man in amerikkkaSo here you have 3 children, all of whom were dealt a terrible hand in life and ended up doing things that for the most part society condemns. My question is, why is one person treated more gently than the other two? Why is one person a product of their environment but the other two aren't seen in the same light?
Again please try to approach this with logic. If you feel that if represented this unfairly please chime in.
Again please try to approach this with logic. If you feel that if represented this unfairly please chime in.
07-29-2020, 10:00 AM
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#17
Originally Posted By AvengeMe⏩
Similar answer to both scenarios one and two. Your spouse is supposed to be one person who you love and trust above all others, the last person on earth who should be harming you, especially if they are bigger/stronger than you. It again evokes that feeling of 'imagine if I didn't even feel safe at home, lived in fear of someone I loved'. As a spouse you are again in a position of trust and power, you are the most important person in someone's life and by abusing that you are inflicting impossible misery. So people react to it viscerally despite mitigating circumstances or past traumas that may cause it. Emotion cannot be separated from the equation as with scenario 1. Similarly to scenario 2, as a spouse you should be held to a higher standard than how you might react to a stranger because you are that persons life and you have the power to make that life unbearable unlike anybody else.Ok revisit this with Scenario 2 being an abusive spouse or some other person without authority.
With regard to 'another person without authority' that is entirely dependent on the person, crime and situation obviously
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07-29-2020, 10:02 AM
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#18
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Originally Posted By LordBroly⏩
Idk, I've honestly felt like I've always had a pretty good moral compass. Not perfect obviously as we all have our issues. I'd say my father played the biggest role despite being a former drug addict. And I mean like legit doing PCP and hiding in the bushes from the Devil drug addict lol. When I was younger, he had a hair trigger fuse and I've watched him pick fights with people on the side of the highway lol but he has always been one of the hardest working and most selfless people I've ever met. Especially as we've both gotten older, he's calmed down a ton and now even volunteers in soup kitchens and goes to Bible study haha.Damn, that's a really rough life. How did you make it through, do you think? Were there any positive role models in your life that you could look to, or maybe a lucky break? How long did it take you to make it to what seems like a good/stable place? Either way, good stuff man, very inspirational.
This is just another argument in my mind that the return of strong male role models is an absolute necessity for the black community and any community for that matter. I also hate that being educated or "making it" in an actual legal way is looked down upon in the black community. I always see a lot of talk about brotherhood and lifting each other up but I often see the opposite in practice.
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07-29-2020, 10:03 AM
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#19
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Originally Posted By elterrible987⏩
Check post 12 and maybe re think that privilege part lol.You were born into privilege by virtue of being white and are disregarding the effects of systemic racism. You cant see what its like to be a black man in amerikkka
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07-29-2020, 10:07 AM
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#20
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scenario 4, a person grows up in a ****ty situation (some 3rd world chithole) with crime, drugs, abuse etc.
comes to different country, is used to hardship, and is able to overcome everything cuz they dont succumb to thug culture.
comes to different country, is used to hardship, and is able to overcome everything cuz they dont succumb to thug culture.
07-29-2020, 10:10 AM
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#21
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I would say it is due to the actions of the first two condemned by nearly all communities in the United States and the West (in some countries #2 may be seen as a good attribute).
#3 is tricky since race plays into it. If it takes place in a majority white area (That is not crazy liberal) it probably gets treated harshly regardless of defendants race (but some whites get advantage as we know in DUI and ******* related offenses). In a black or very liberal area it is likely more accepted due to A. White guilt, B. Community acceptance. This may also apply to Hispanics in parts of LA accepting gang violence.
Thinking back on that it probably just boils down to communities are racist. We should destroy them and the world will live as one.
The question I would have is, does the lack of heavy policing in high crime areas continue the cycle? They do not have the funding wealthier areas have for their PDs and do not have the same means for protecting themselves. If high crime areas were treated like a police state for a decade would that clean them up?
#3 is tricky since race plays into it. If it takes place in a majority white area (That is not crazy liberal) it probably gets treated harshly regardless of defendants race (but some whites get advantage as we know in DUI and ******* related offenses). In a black or very liberal area it is likely more accepted due to A. White guilt, B. Community acceptance. This may also apply to Hispanics in parts of LA accepting gang violence.
Thinking back on that it probably just boils down to communities are racist. We should destroy them and the world will live as one.
The question I would have is, does the lack of heavy policing in high crime areas continue the cycle? They do not have the funding wealthier areas have for their PDs and do not have the same means for protecting themselves. If high crime areas were treated like a police state for a decade would that clean them up?
07-29-2020, 10:17 AM
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#22
- elterrible987
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Originally Posted By AvengeMe⏩
False. Everywhere you go you are judged on your whiteness and presumptions are made about you to your benefit. That is white privilege. As a black man even in my 30s I am followed in the stores by personnel thinking I will shoplift. I am a grown ass man thats on my purpose. I dont steal. But society judges me. That is not even getting into the amount of times Ive been pulled over just for being black in an nice car.Check post 12 and maybe re think that privilege part lol.
07-29-2020, 10:20 AM
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#23
- FingerFood
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Originally Posted By AvengeMe⏩
Congratulations on succeeding despite so many obstacles. I would say "overcoming", but doubt you ever really can overcome all of that.While I certainly don't discount the fact that blacks today likely are still a bit hamstrung from past policies or inter-generational wealth issues stemming from slavery, there has to come a time when personal agency is taken into account.
For example:
I was sexually abused by a neighbor as a child
My parents split up when I was 7-8
My mother died when I was 11
My father is a recovered drug addict, I can remember my uncle stealing my piggy bank for drugs as a child and I just recently was in a family members wedding that was strung out for their own wedding.
By all of today's standards/excuses I should be a drug addicted abuser with no future. Instead I'm in a healthy relationship and have a well paying career in the IT field.
For example:
I was sexually abused by a neighbor as a child
My parents split up when I was 7-8
My mother died when I was 11
My father is a recovered drug addict, I can remember my uncle stealing my piggy bank for drugs as a child and I just recently was in a family members wedding that was strung out for their own wedding.
By all of today's standards/excuses I should be a drug addicted abuser with no future. Instead I'm in a healthy relationship and have a well paying career in the IT field.
How much of it do you think is your external influences versus your personality or IQ?
I have not had anything as bad as what happened to you done to me, but most my memories from being young are from situations I know were wrong and still process. Often times it is not until now as an adult that I sort out what actually happened.
Do you feel anger or embarrsment? I seem to always feel embarrsment rather than anger. I wonder if this has anything to do with it.
07-29-2020, 10:23 AM
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#24
- engj
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Originally Posted By AvengeMe⏩
Isnt there more than enough real chit for people to argue about?Should I add a tranny and manlet scenario to get the thread some traction?
Do we need to make up some hypothetical people, pick sides, and fight about it?
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07-29-2020, 10:25 AM
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#25
- AvengeMe
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Originally Posted By orangetide⏩
Yes I do agree with this to an extent as well as I stated in post 18. A shift in culture and and more personal responsibility would go a long way.scenario 4, a person grows up in a ****ty situation (some 3rd world chithole) with crime, drugs, abuse etc.
comes to different country, is used to hardship, and is able to overcome everything cuz they dont succumb to thug culture.
comes to different country, is used to hardship, and is able to overcome everything cuz they dont succumb to thug culture.
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07-29-2020, 10:26 AM
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#26
- FingerFood
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Originally Posted By elterrible987⏩
The problem with this claim of privilege is it reverses what is being done. Society working the way it should is not privilege. Someone being targeted or treated differently above normal would be privilege. You know, like beautiful people or famous people. Ben Folds has a comment about now he is rich he does not have to buy his coffee.False. Everywhere you go you are judged on your whiteness and presumptions are made about you to your benefit. That is white privilege. As a black man even in my 30s I am followed in the stores by personnel thinking I will shoplift. I am a grown ass man thats on my purpose. I dont steal. But society judges me. That is not even getting into the amount of times Ive been pulled over just for being black in an nice car.
Being treated below the society average is a disadvantage. Stop pointing the finger at everyone saying they are privileged.
It sucks, if a black person in a store is treated differently. At the same time can you think of any reason this might be?
07-29-2020, 10:34 AM
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#27
- Bigbuster1
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Originally Posted By LordBroly⏩
Not bad, don’t really disagree with the spirit of your post.Until very recently I would say that the person from scenario 3, regardless of race, was arguably the most vilified of those scenarios. I say regardless of race because people tend to say that people who end up in a life of crime "get what they deserve" more often than not. I've heard this applied to people from the ghetto and rednecks alike, for example. People have no sympathy for criminals and seem to believe that prisons should be used to punish them for their crimes rather than rehabilitate them and give them practical life skills.
Until recently cops were able to get away with all kinds of gross miscarriages of justice like sexual misconduct, unnecessary violence, racially motivated beatings/killings, planting evidence, etc. Only now has society at large started to hold cops accountable. We should be able to sympathize with them to a degree, but they have to be held to a higher standard since they are choosing to enter a job that gives them huge power over ordinary citizens and one that's about upholding the law and protecting the citizens. The only solution to this, IMO, is having more stringent selection criteria and improved training.
Ultimately, we shouldn't be so quick to pass judgment on people. Of course there needs to be accountability for crimes and misconduct, but we should also try to look at how people came to commit those things and try and understand them so we can prevent them in the future and help those who are suffering from similar misfortunes. I think we have a tendency to condemn people and write them off far too quickly. I guess it comes down to having compassion for one another.
Until recently cops were able to get away with all kinds of gross miscarriages of justice like sexual misconduct, unnecessary violence, racially motivated beatings/killings, planting evidence, etc. Only now has society at large started to hold cops accountable. We should be able to sympathize with them to a degree, but they have to be held to a higher standard since they are choosing to enter a job that gives them huge power over ordinary citizens and one that's about upholding the law and protecting the citizens. The only solution to this, IMO, is having more stringent selection criteria and improved training.
Ultimately, we shouldn't be so quick to pass judgment on people. Of course there needs to be accountability for crimes and misconduct, but we should also try to look at how people came to commit those things and try and understand them so we can prevent them in the future and help those who are suffering from similar misfortunes. I think we have a tendency to condemn people and write them off far too quickly. I guess it comes down to having compassion for one another.
But it’s pretty clear that in all 3 scenarios it is the nuclear family unit that has shaped the path of the child’s life.
It’s pretty obvious to me that 90% of the problems in American Society today are rooted in one cause: people having unwanted children, and either abusing them or abandoning them. That’s typically creates an abuser or a criminal.
Show me any segment of society in America that is struggling, and I’m sure you will see a high percentage of single family homes.
It’s unfortunate that a 2-parent loving home is now demonized, and the single mother household is praised as heroic, because it’s actually the opposite of what the child or society needs
07-29-2020, 11:07 AM
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#28
- AvengeMe
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Originally Posted By elterrible987⏩
Lol yes! Keep it going! I would pay you if you get a video of yourself using this persona at some sort of public event. Do you think people would attack you or do you think you could eventually convince them? The latter would be hilarious.False. Everywhere you go you are judged on your whiteness and presumptions are made about you to your benefit. That is white privilege. As a black man even in my 30s I am followed in the stores by personnel thinking I will shoplift. I am a grown ass man thats on my purpose. I dont steal. But society judges me. That is not even getting into the amount of times Ive been pulled over just for being black in an nice car.
Originally Posted By FingerFood⏩
I think some can be attributed to my personality/IQ and the rest attributed to having a strong father figure despite him being a recovering addict.Congratulations on succeeding despite so many obstacles. I would say "overcoming", but doubt you ever really can overcome all of that.
How much of it do you think is your external influences versus your personality or IQ?
I have not had anything as bad as what happened to you done to me, but most my memories from being young are from situations I know were wrong and still process. Often times it is not until now as an adult that I sort out what actually happened.
Do you feel anger or embarrsment? I seem to always feel embarrsment rather than anger. I wonder if this has anything to do with it.
How much of it do you think is your external influences versus your personality or IQ?
I have not had anything as bad as what happened to you done to me, but most my memories from being young are from situations I know were wrong and still process. Often times it is not until now as an adult that I sort out what actually happened.
Do you feel anger or embarrsment? I seem to always feel embarrsment rather than anger. I wonder if this has anything to do with it.
Honestly it wasn't until I was much older and gave it some thought that I realized that what my neighbor had done to me was sexual abuse and not just some sort of "game."
I really don't feel much of either towards my childhood. I'm just grateful to be where I am today. My biggest regret is that I was a little fukker and terrible to my mother while she was still alive. The last Christmas we had together before she passed I didn't even wrap her Christmas present. If I could change anything, I would go back and be a better son to her.
The only anger I really feel now is just with the way the world is. Being someone that thinks more logically, the current climate is absolute hell.
Originally Posted By engj⏩
I'm not asking anyone to fight about it, in fact I explicitly spoke against that in the begging and at the end of my post.Isnt there more than enough real chit for people to argue about?
Do we need to make up some hypothetical people, pick sides, and fight about it?
Do we need to make up some hypothetical people, pick sides, and fight about it?
Originally Posted By Bigbuster1⏩
This x1000Not bad, don’t really disagree with the spirit of your post.
But it’s pretty clear that in all 3 scenarios it is the nuclear family unit that has shaped the path of the child’s life.
It’s pretty obvious to me that 90% of the problems in American Society today are rooted in one cause: people having unwanted children, and either abusing them or abandoning them. That’s typically creates an abuser or a criminal.
Show me any segment of society in America that is struggling, and I’m sure you will see a high percentage of single family homes.
It’s unfortunate that a 2-parent loving home is now demonized, and the single mother household is praised as heroic, because it’s actually the opposite of what the child or society needs
But it’s pretty clear that in all 3 scenarios it is the nuclear family unit that has shaped the path of the child’s life.
It’s pretty obvious to me that 90% of the problems in American Society today are rooted in one cause: people having unwanted children, and either abusing them or abandoning them. That’s typically creates an abuser or a criminal.
Show me any segment of society in America that is struggling, and I’m sure you will see a high percentage of single family homes.
It’s unfortunate that a 2-parent loving home is now demonized, and the single mother household is praised as heroic, because it’s actually the opposite of what the child or society needs
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07-29-2020, 02:35 PM
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#29
- BetaAsPhuck
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Originally Posted By AvengeMe⏩
Sorry for reading about that, and good on you for overcoming your post, and I really mean that.While I certainly don't discount the fact that blacks today likely are still a bit hamstrung from past policies or inter-generational wealth issues stemming from slavery, there has to come a time when personal agency is taken into account.
For example:
I was sexually abused by a neighbor as a child
My parents split up when I was 7-8
My mother died when I was 11
My father is a recovered drug addict, I can remember my uncle stealing my piggy bank for drugs as a child and I just recently was in a family members wedding that was strung out for their own wedding.
By all of today's standards/excuses I should be a drug addicted abuser with no future. Instead I'm in a healthy relationship and have a well paying career in the IT field.
For example:
I was sexually abused by a neighbor as a child
My parents split up when I was 7-8
My mother died when I was 11
My father is a recovered drug addict, I can remember my uncle stealing my piggy bank for drugs as a child and I just recently was in a family members wedding that was strung out for their own wedding.
By all of today's standards/excuses I should be a drug addicted abuser with no future. Instead I'm in a healthy relationship and have a well paying career in the IT field.
However, there is growing evidence (e.g. Psychopathy, The Big 5 Test, Sensory Processing Sensitivity Research, ADHD, etc) that people are born with inclinations towards certain temperaments, and also the heritabilty of IQ. Temperaments that may help people to be less affected by early childhood experience and social environment that others. Some people need more support to overcome, than others.
I am not arguing that people are nor responsible for what they do, but I am arguing that genetics, early childhood experiences and social environment together play a big role in the strength of a person's agency.
For all of the people who overcome like you, there are probably thousands who have life long debilitating mental health and/or addiction problems, and problems forming healthy relationships. Like A.C.E test research shows, there is a predictable pattern towards dysfunctional behaviour, the more adverse childhood experiences that a person has gone through.
Also, imagine if someone went through similar things you went through, but were born in the Congo instead of the United States. And so they didn't have access to the kind of education and employment opportunities afforded to a US citizen.
If You Don't Like To Talk About Your Feelings, This Might Help...
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178926621
The Most Heartbreaking Thing That I've Learned About 'The Elite'.
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178536851
Bitcoin And 'The Elite' - Why Bitcoin Is Not Revolutionary
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=179820783
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