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World's eight richest people have same wealth as poorest 50% of global population.
World's eight richest people have same wealth as poorest 50% of global population.
01-17-2017, 12:14 AM
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#91
Originally Posted By RobParks2M⏩
Thanks to you (and a few others, like the fish holding guy lol) who did what I didn't have the energy to do tonight, which was educate these guys.Hooo boy this is going to be fun. Explain to me in detail how that specific list of people have murdered a single person? In fact, I would bet that Bill gates and Warren Buffet have saved many more lives than either have harmed through charitable giving to the poorest of the poor in Africa through the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation.
Also, I would love to hear the explanation of what exact resource any of those on the list are hoarding? Had you read my post you would have realized they do not hoard anything but ownership in their respective businesses.
I will answer your question though by talking strictly about what Bill Gates has accomplished.
Bill Gates via Microsoft made computers/software that paved the way for personalized computing. Even today over 90% of computers, phones, and cash registers run on Microsoft software. He hit a net worth of over 100 billion dollars in 1999, but his net worth obviously dropped from there. He put over 30 billion dollars into his foundation and Buffet also gave over 30 billion to the foundation as well. The foundation works to immunize against infectious disease, prevent childhood nutrition based diseases, and improve education for those of us in the US.
Exactly. If my post would have been read this wouldn't have to be explained 10x over.
Again hypothetical number, but if it wasn't for Bill Gates there would be a lot less production and the world would be a less efficient place. He makes money because his systems make other people money and thus the world turns. He has provided probably hundreds of thousands of jobs for people all over the world starting with the people who mine the raw products(who wouldn't otherwise have jobs at all) down to the salesmen all over the world.
Also, I would love to hear the explanation of what exact resource any of those on the list are hoarding? Had you read my post you would have realized they do not hoard anything but ownership in their respective businesses.
I will answer your question though by talking strictly about what Bill Gates has accomplished.
Bill Gates via Microsoft made computers/software that paved the way for personalized computing. Even today over 90% of computers, phones, and cash registers run on Microsoft software. He hit a net worth of over 100 billion dollars in 1999, but his net worth obviously dropped from there. He put over 30 billion dollars into his foundation and Buffet also gave over 30 billion to the foundation as well. The foundation works to immunize against infectious disease, prevent childhood nutrition based diseases, and improve education for those of us in the US.
Exactly. If my post would have been read this wouldn't have to be explained 10x over.
Again hypothetical number, but if it wasn't for Bill Gates there would be a lot less production and the world would be a less efficient place. He makes money because his systems make other people money and thus the world turns. He has provided probably hundreds of thousands of jobs for people all over the world starting with the people who mine the raw products(who wouldn't otherwise have jobs at all) down to the salesmen all over the world.
There are a lot of guys in here who you can just tell think they are more intelligent than everyone else but it's actually the opposite, they aren't that intelligent and their anger is misguided. Economics is a very complex thing to study. So, thanks to you for helping educate these guys and help them understand the world better. As I said on page two I think it was, the real alarm is that so few people in the world don't have a system to help them earn any wealth. Bad governments, etc.
All that being said, I would propose a tax on anyone earning over say.. $100 million/year (and maybe one to a lesser extent on $50m) that redistributes that gained wealth in the form of tax breaks to small business owners, and/or the realistic middle class.
The real issue with our economy is less competition arising and more monopoly type businesses taking over multiple aspects of life, controlling pricing to a point where cost of living is outpacing income, big time.
The answer.. who the hell knows. It's possibly forcing companies to split like they have done in the past, create more competition and continue our capitalist economy. A slight tax on the ultra rich, and by ultra I mean as I said above say $100m net worth gains per year, in the form of incentive to start a business and tax break for middle class.
No matter what, as technology takes over the world, we're going to see jobs go overseas to countries with no law of minimum wage where slave labor is cheaper like India, China, etc. Due to globalism, the US will be impacted negatively for some time until the worlds producing countries all catch up government wise and create fair labor laws. That will be far in our future though. We still have a huge competitive edge, most of the world is still terribly organized only European (including the US) countries really have it down.
01-17-2017, 12:16 AM
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#92
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Originally Posted By RobParks2M⏩
all right fine, but you know what, Buffet has financial security along with his kids, grandkids, great-grandkids, great-great-grandkids, great-great-great-grandkids, and beyond.http://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showth...hp?t=168482363
This is Buffet's house. "Superking" doesn't exactly jump to the forefront of my mind.
This is Buffet's house. "Superking" doesn't exactly jump to the forefront of my mind.
Meanwhile the people that live paycheck-to-paycheck are one car breakdown or housing repair away from being in absolute chitty trouble. Graduates who making payments towards their $50,000+ student debt aren't planning for retirement anytime soon.
Capitalism is based on exploitation of the poor and where the past dominates the present.
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01-17-2017, 12:18 AM
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#93
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Originally Posted By RobParks2M⏩
Disease is a form of population check buddy, since Malaria is gone, more and more Africans are able to survive but newsflash, they are still fuking like rabbits and popping out babies.The people of Africa not dying of malaria would say otherwise.
Because you don't do anything to help the people of Africa doesn't mean he doesn't. In a year he gives away more dollars than you can count boyo.
Because you don't do anything to help the people of Africa doesn't mean he doesn't. In a year he gives away more dollars than you can count boyo.
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01-17-2017, 12:20 AM
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#94
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Originally Posted By RobParks2M⏩
Many of the resources used in computers, sweat shops etc. are harvested in disenfranchised countries by children working in horrible conditions.Hooo boy this is going to be fun. Explain to me in detail how that specific list of people have murdered a single person? In fact, I would bet that Bill gates and Warren Buffet have saved many more lives than either have harmed through charitable giving to the poorest of the poor in Africa through the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation.
Also, I would love to hear the explanation of what exact resource any of those on the list are hoarding? Had you read my post you would have realized they do not hoard anything but ownership in their respective businesses.
I will answer your question though by talking strictly about what Bill Gates has accomplished.
Bill Gates via Microsoft made computers/software that paved the way for personalized computing. Even today over 90% of computers, phones, and cash registers run on Microsoft software. He hit a net worth of over 100 billion dollars in 1999, but his net worth obviously dropped from there. He put over 30 billion dollars into his foundation and Buffet also gave over 30 billion to the foundation as well. The foundation works to immunize against infectious disease, prevent childhood nutrition based diseases, and improve education for those of us in the US.
Also, I would love to hear the explanation of what exact resource any of those on the list are hoarding? Had you read my post you would have realized they do not hoard anything but ownership in their respective businesses.
I will answer your question though by talking strictly about what Bill Gates has accomplished.
Bill Gates via Microsoft made computers/software that paved the way for personalized computing. Even today over 90% of computers, phones, and cash registers run on Microsoft software. He hit a net worth of over 100 billion dollars in 1999, but his net worth obviously dropped from there. He put over 30 billion dollars into his foundation and Buffet also gave over 30 billion to the foundation as well. The foundation works to immunize against infectious disease, prevent childhood nutrition based diseases, and improve education for those of us in the US.
The large majority of electronics (apple is especially guilty) are produced in sweatshop conditions. If someone can afford to amass a wealth of billilons of dollars they can afford to fairly pay workers and have humane working conditions the only reason not too is pure greed.
I will agree that the new generation of tech billionaires are nowhere near as guilty of these atrocities as the oil/mining/manufacturing tycoons that have exploited people for profit at every possible turn and it is well documented.
Do you seriously deny the existance of child labour, sweat shops, death trap mines, corporate take over of disenfranchised area to exploit resources? Who do you think is perpatrating these acts?
And the resource they are hoarding is money...which can be turned into food, housing etc so basically every resource.
You can go ahead and say the plight of the poor is not these peoples issue but the large majority of the population of the earth has absolutely no chance to be in a position where they can succeed and the fact that these people were in a position to be able to amass this wealth started by winning a 1 in 3 billion lottery and not being born into a 3rd world country.
I'm sure you position on this subject would be very different if you were born into absolute poverty in the Congo through the rape of your mother.
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01-17-2017, 12:22 AM
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#95
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Originally Posted By CptClean⏩
What's your alternative?In after fukking hopelessely retarded miscers say they got there through hard work and sweat and then then turn around and blame people that make $12 less an hour for their problems. People like you *******s are as big a problem as the people perpatrating this madness. I wish there was not a place for you on this planet.
Bankers frauded a trillion dollars in bailouts through the housing bubble but sure its welfare recipients causing you to be hopeless miserable fukks. Billionaires fabricate reasons for wars to go steal money and then hire their own companies to rebuild the ruined nations so they are literally profiting off their own peoples blood.
These people dont work any harder than small business owner pulling 100+ hour weeks that are the lifeblood of succesful countries, corporations go to countries already in dire situations and make it worse and murder the dissenting population.
Just because you can go get people to work in sweatshop conditions for no money doesnt mean you are smart or hard working because you do so it means you are a total piece of chit with no soul.
This fukked up type of thinking that everyone is only responsible for themselves and fukk everyone else because they dont care about you either is why humans will not make it as a species. It would take a global change in consciousness for us to have any hope at all.
Bankers frauded a trillion dollars in bailouts through the housing bubble but sure its welfare recipients causing you to be hopeless miserable fukks. Billionaires fabricate reasons for wars to go steal money and then hire their own companies to rebuild the ruined nations so they are literally profiting off their own peoples blood.
These people dont work any harder than small business owner pulling 100+ hour weeks that are the lifeblood of succesful countries, corporations go to countries already in dire situations and make it worse and murder the dissenting population.
Just because you can go get people to work in sweatshop conditions for no money doesnt mean you are smart or hard working because you do so it means you are a total piece of chit with no soul.
This fukked up type of thinking that everyone is only responsible for themselves and fukk everyone else because they dont care about you either is why humans will not make it as a species. It would take a global change in consciousness for us to have any hope at all.
Because Socialism literally suks dink.
Venezuela has the most proven oil reserves in the world. It's literally sitting on liquid wealth, and yet it's a fukking chitshow right now with toilet paper shortages, rampant inflation, etc.. because socialism mismanages economies so badly.
Venezuela is a very fair nation though. For the most part, everyone in Venezuela has an equally chitty standard of living, with the exception of the politically connected elites in Caracas.
These billionaires became billionaires by creating products that changed the world. Were it not for Microsoft and all the programs that run on it, the world would look vastly different today. If Bill Gates hadn't been first to the draw, then whoever created something similarly successful would have rightfully hit pay dirt.
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01-17-2017, 12:22 AM
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#96
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Originally Posted By FunnyWeasel⏩
wrong again. Buffet/Gates are giving a majority of their shares/wealth away. Granted their children, getting only a small % of the fortune, are getting plenty to live on.all right fine, but you know what, Buffet has financial security along with his kids, grandkids, great-grandkids, great-great-grandkids, great-great-great-grandkids, and beyond.
Meanwhile the people that live paycheck-to-paycheck are one car breakdown or housing repair away from being in absolute chitty trouble. Graduates who making payments towards their $50,000+ student debt aren't planning for retirement anytime soon.
Capitalism is based on exploitation of the poor and where the past dominates the present.
Meanwhile the people that live paycheck-to-paycheck are one car breakdown or housing repair away from being in absolute chitty trouble. Graduates who making payments towards their $50,000+ student debt aren't planning for retirement anytime soon.
Capitalism is based on exploitation of the poor and where the past dominates the present.
HOWEVER, I think you are correct that we should make sure all billionaires follow suit with proper taxation to prevent the money from moving further than 1 generation.
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01-17-2017, 12:23 AM
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#97
Originally Posted By CptClean⏩
I know this wasn't directed at me but to respond for him a bit, you're pointing out a serious and real problem but then wrongly pointing the blame finger the wrong way.Many of the resources used in computers, sweat shops etc. are harvested in disenfranchised countries by children working in horrible conditions.
The large majority of electronics (apple is especially guilty) are produced in sweatshop conditions. If someone can afford to amass a wealth of billilons of dollars they can afford to fairly pay workers and have humane working conditions the only reason not too is pure greed.
I will agree that the new generation of tech billionaires are nowhere near as guilty of these atrocities as the oil/mining/manufacturing tycoons that have exploited people for profit at every possible turn and it is well documented.
Do you seriously deny the existance of child labour, sweat shops, death trap mines, corporate take over of disenfranchised area to exploit resources? Who do you think is perpatrating these acts?
And the resource they are hoarding is money...which can be turned into food, housing etc so basically every resource.
You can go ahead and say the plight of the poor is not these peoples issue but the large majority of the population of the earth has absolutely no chance to be in a position where they can succeed and the fact that these people were in a position to be able to amass this wealth started by winning a 1 in 3 billion lottery and not being born into a 3rd world country.
I'm sure you position on this subject would be very different if you were born into absolute poverty in the Congo through the rape of your mother.
The large majority of electronics (apple is especially guilty) are produced in sweatshop conditions. If someone can afford to amass a wealth of billilons of dollars they can afford to fairly pay workers and have humane working conditions the only reason not too is pure greed.
I will agree that the new generation of tech billionaires are nowhere near as guilty of these atrocities as the oil/mining/manufacturing tycoons that have exploited people for profit at every possible turn and it is well documented.
Do you seriously deny the existance of child labour, sweat shops, death trap mines, corporate take over of disenfranchised area to exploit resources? Who do you think is perpatrating these acts?
And the resource they are hoarding is money...which can be turned into food, housing etc so basically every resource.
You can go ahead and say the plight of the poor is not these peoples issue but the large majority of the population of the earth has absolutely no chance to be in a position where they can succeed and the fact that these people were in a position to be able to amass this wealth started by winning a 1 in 3 billion lottery and not being born into a 3rd world country.
I'm sure you position on this subject would be very different if you were born into absolute poverty in the Congo through the rape of your mother.
The blame is not these rich guys in the OP, it's failed governments of the nations that host this sort of slave labor. They need to learn how European countries did it and follow. It's the responsibility of the people of those countries to right their ship, and create a fair and functioning government using capitalism with laws to control it, like the US did. It surely isn't the fault of the great innovators.
01-17-2017, 12:24 AM
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#98
Originally Posted By RobParks2M⏩
1) Hypothetical but not far off. Close enough to demonstrate the absurdity of our unbalanced economy.Again hypothetical number, but if it wasn't for Bill Gates there would be a lot less production and the world would be a less efficient place. He makes money because his systems make other people money and thus the world turns. He has provided probably hundreds of thousands of jobs for people all over the world starting with the people who mine the raw products(who wouldn't otherwise have jobs at all) down to the salesmen all over the world.
2) There would be no Bill Gates as we know him without people creating the environment for him to do what he did. They are just as essential--at least collectively--as he is to Windows. That's the point: people zero in on one hero but it's a collective effort to get something like this done and the fruit of that production shouldn't be hoarded by a few.
3) A better product or service makes the world a bit more efficient. Demand (and people spending money) creates jobs and not ingenuity or personal wealth per se. If not Windows then more mac sales and/or typewriters and/or movie tickets for non PC recreation, etc, etc and more jobs created in those areas instead.
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01-17-2017, 12:26 AM
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#99
Originally Posted By RobParks2M⏩
Completely disagree with the bolded. I grew up in very bad poverty, and I'll be a self made millionaire very soon, well on my way. At a minimum I'll be a multi millionaire in my 30s and significantly more in 40s and on.wrong again. Buffet/Gates are giving a majority of their shares/wealth away. Granted their children, getting only a small % of the fortune, are getting plenty to live on.
HOWEVER, I think you are correct that we should make sure all billionaires follow suit with proper taxation to prevent the money from moving further than 1 generation.
HOWEVER, I think you are correct that we should make sure all billionaires follow suit with proper taxation to prevent the money from moving further than 1 generation.
I've done this through hard work (as an employee, not a creator/employer) and self control/low cost of living and simple investing. Before I die, I plan on creating a sort of rule of thumb for my following generations to follow, and I plan on the wealth I save to last longer than one generation.
Granted it won't be hundreds of millions like these guys, but I'd be extremely sad if there was some law that stopped me from helping my great grandkids financially, or even their kids. That doesn't make sense.
There just needs to be a tax on their current lives that creates incentives to start businesses, more competition and innovation, and tax breaks for the middle class.
01-17-2017, 12:27 AM
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#100
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Originally Posted By CptClean⏩
... for the millionth time they aren't hording money. They simply own their dam businesses why is that so hard to understand??? If they were to distribute their wealth it wouldn't increase the quantity of food or houses in the world it would just make each of those resources more expensive you dim wit. I agree that the poor are stuck with crappy lives but that is not because of the 8 dudes on this list. Like I have stated over and over they do a lot for those people. Tell me what you think could be done different to help the bottom 50% of the world?Many of the resources used in computers, sweat shops etc. are harvested in disenfranchised countries by children working in horrible conditions.
The large majority of electronics (apple is especially guilty) are produced in sweatshop conditions. If someone can afford to amass a wealth of billilons of dollars they can afford to fairly pay workers and have humane working conditions the only reason not too is pure greed.
I will agree that the new generation of tech billionaires are nowhere near as guilty of these atrocities as the oil/mining/manufacturing tycoons that have exploited people for profit at every possible turn and it is well documented.
Do you seriously deny the existance of child labour, sweat shops, death trap mines, corporate take over of disenfranchised area to exploit resources? Who do you think is perpatrating these acts?
And the resource they are hoarding is money...which can be turned into food, housing etc so basically every resource.
You can go ahead and say the plight of the poor is not these peoples issue but the large majority of the population of the earth has absolutely no chance to be in a position where they can succeed and the fact that these people were in a position to be able to amass this wealth started by winning a 1 in 3 billion lottery and not being born into a 3rd world country.
I'm sure you position on this subject would be very different if you were born into absolute poverty in the Congo through the rape of your mother.
The large majority of electronics (apple is especially guilty) are produced in sweatshop conditions. If someone can afford to amass a wealth of billilons of dollars they can afford to fairly pay workers and have humane working conditions the only reason not too is pure greed.
I will agree that the new generation of tech billionaires are nowhere near as guilty of these atrocities as the oil/mining/manufacturing tycoons that have exploited people for profit at every possible turn and it is well documented.
Do you seriously deny the existance of child labour, sweat shops, death trap mines, corporate take over of disenfranchised area to exploit resources? Who do you think is perpatrating these acts?
And the resource they are hoarding is money...which can be turned into food, housing etc so basically every resource.
You can go ahead and say the plight of the poor is not these peoples issue but the large majority of the population of the earth has absolutely no chance to be in a position where they can succeed and the fact that these people were in a position to be able to amass this wealth started by winning a 1 in 3 billion lottery and not being born into a 3rd world country.
I'm sure you position on this subject would be very different if you were born into absolute poverty in the Congo through the rape of your mother.
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01-17-2017, 12:29 AM
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#101
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Originally Posted By Hadtodoit⏩
What I am talking about would only affect greater than 50 million dollars. I am talking about preventing dynasties where families shift billions down their bloodlines. I'd hate for a family to be like the Saudi royal family--- a bunch of goodfornothings pooping on models.Completely disagree with the bolded. I grew up in very bad poverty, and I'll be a self made millionaire very soon, well on my way. At a minimum I'll be a multi millionaire in my 30s and significantly more in 40s and on.
I've done this through hard work (as an employee, not a creator/employer) and self control/low cost of living and simple investing. Before I die, I plan on creating a sort of rule of thumb for my following generations to follow, and I plan on the wealth I save to last longer than one generation.
Granted it won't be hundreds of millions like these guys, but I'd be extremely sad if there was some law that stopped me from helping my great grandkids financially, or even their kids. That doesn't make sense.
There just needs to be a tax on their current lives that creates incentives to start businesses, more competition and innovation, and tax breaks for the middle class.
I've done this through hard work (as an employee, not a creator/employer) and self control/low cost of living and simple investing. Before I die, I plan on creating a sort of rule of thumb for my following generations to follow, and I plan on the wealth I save to last longer than one generation.
Granted it won't be hundreds of millions like these guys, but I'd be extremely sad if there was some law that stopped me from helping my great grandkids financially, or even their kids. That doesn't make sense.
There just needs to be a tax on their current lives that creates incentives to start businesses, more competition and innovation, and tax breaks for the middle class.
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01-17-2017, 12:30 AM
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#102
Originally Posted By ivanporkinurwif⏩
There are more alternatives to supply side economics/laissez faire economics than communism. False dichotomy.dude I understand exactly what you're saying. In a perfect utopia that would work. Even in the most peaceful of societies "the Amish" there's a hierarchy. Communism in principle is perfect. The problem is my crops, your crops grow better than our neighbor with the same plot of land and same soil. He just doesn't work as hard as you and I do. So he has less to trade and barter with. We put up with it for a while and fill his void. But over time he takes us for granted and we get pissed. I don't know the solution and I feel terrible for the exploited
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01-17-2017, 12:30 AM
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#103
Originally Posted By RobParks2M⏩
I could potentially get on board with something like that. I might raise the bar a bit from $50m because believe it or not, with inflation that won't be an insane number in 50-100 years but I do see where you're going with it.What I am talking about would only affect greater than 50 million dollars. I am talking about preventing dynasties where families shift billions down their bloodlines. I'd hate for a family to be like the Saudi royal family--- a bunch of goodfornothings pooping on models.
As long as they can still leave wealth for future generations, just not 'super' wealth, that actually makes sense.
01-17-2017, 12:31 AM
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#104
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Originally Posted By ContrarianIndi⏩
There is no solution humans have been exploiting eachother since our inception and will continue to do so until we destroy ourselves.What's your alternative?
Because Socialism literally suks dink.
Venezuela has the most proven oil reserves in the world. It's literally sitting on liquid wealth, and yet it's a fukking chitshow right now with toilet paper shortages, rampant inflation, etc.. because socialism mismanages economies so badly.
Venezuela is a very fair nation though. For the most part, everyone in Venezuela has an equally chitty standard of living, with the exception of the politically connected elites in Caracas.
These billionaires became billionaires by creating products that changed the world. Were it not for Microsoft and all the programs that run on it, the world would look vastly different today. If Bill Gates hadn't been first to the draw, then whoever created something similarly successful would have rightfully hit pay dirt.
Because Socialism literally suks dink.
Venezuela has the most proven oil reserves in the world. It's literally sitting on liquid wealth, and yet it's a fukking chitshow right now with toilet paper shortages, rampant inflation, etc.. because socialism mismanages economies so badly.
Venezuela is a very fair nation though. For the most part, everyone in Venezuela has an equally chitty standard of living, with the exception of the politically connected elites in Caracas.
These billionaires became billionaires by creating products that changed the world. Were it not for Microsoft and all the programs that run on it, the world would look vastly different today. If Bill Gates hadn't been first to the draw, then whoever created something similarly successful would have rightfully hit pay dirt.
There is no form of government that works because human nature is to corrupt and pervert anything you can for gain it is how we are wired socialism is an absolute farce with no chance of working.
What everyone (especially these so called intellectuals in ths thread) fail to realize is that most people in this world have no chance at anything through absolutely no fault of their own.
There is absolutely no reason for people in first world countries to live in poverty I agree all of the tools are in place to have a good quality of life some may just have to work harder than others but they are there.
But what about the people born with nothing with no chance of ever having anything? And what does it say about those who would choose to exploit them for profit when they already have more than they could ever use?
One day scientists are going to kill us all.
01-17-2017, 12:31 AM
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#105
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op is a ****ing idiot and thinks these people just horde money under their mattresses. this is net worth based on ASSETS.
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01-17-2017, 12:31 AM
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#106
01-17-2017, 12:32 AM
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#107
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Originally Posted By Hadtodoit⏩
How are they not responsible for where they choose to manufacture their products?The blame is not these rich guys in the OP,
They purposefully find the cheapest labor possible, with the knowledge that the people are working in chitty conditions.
They could demand good working conditions, but they know that would raise the cost of manufacturing. So they turn a blind eye, until it's exposed by journalists or human rights non-profits.
it's failed governments of the nations that host this sort of slave labor. They need to learn how European countries did it and follow.It's the responsibility of the people of those countries to right their ship, and create a fair and functioning government using capitalism with laws to control it, like the US did. It surely isn't the fault of the great innovators.
How does government enforced working conditions and employee rights = free-market capitalism?If You Don't Like To Talk About Your Feelings, This Might Help...
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178926621
The Most Heartbreaking Thing That I've Learned About 'The Elite'.
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178536851
Bitcoin And 'The Elite' - Why Bitcoin Is Not Revolutionary
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=179820783
01-17-2017, 12:32 AM
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#108
- RobParks2M
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Originally Posted By Hadtodoit⏩
I think that if you are wealthy you are entitled to leave your kids enough money that they don't ever have to work. But I don't think your great grandson should be living like a king because of someone they never met or will appreciate. But I agree could push the bar higher in terms of the cap.I could potentially get on board with something like that. I might raise the bar a bit from $50m because believe it or not, with inflation that won't be an insane number in 50-100 years but I do see where you're going with it.
As long as they can still leave wealth for future generations, just not 'super' wealth, that actually makes sense.
As long as they can still leave wealth for future generations, just not 'super' wealth, that actually makes sense.
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01-17-2017, 12:34 AM
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#109
- ContrarianIndi
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Originally Posted By CptClean⏩
Are people being forced by Nike and Apple to work in sweatshops? No.Many of the resources used in computers, sweat shops etc. are harvested in disenfranchised countries by children working in horrible conditions.
The large majority of electronics (apple is especially guilty) are produced in sweatshop conditions. If someone can afford to amass a wealth of billilons of dollars they can afford to fairly pay workers and have humane working conditions the only reason not too is pure greed.
I will agree that the new generation of tech billionaires are nowhere near as guilty of these atrocities as the oil/mining/manufacturing tycoons that have exploited people for profit at every possible turn and it is well documented.
Do you seriously deny the existance of child labour, sweat shops, death trap mines, corporate take over of disenfranchised area to exploit resources? Who do you think is perpatrating these acts?
And the resource they are hoarding is money...which can be turned into food, housing etc so basically every resource.
You can go ahead and say the plight of the poor is not these peoples issue but the large majority of the population of the earth has absolutely no chance to be in a position where they can succeed and the fact that these people were in a position to be able to amass this wealth started by winning a 1 in 3 billion lottery and not being born into a 3rd world country.
I'm sure you position on this subject would be very different if you were born into absolute poverty in the Congo through the rape of your mother.
The large majority of electronics (apple is especially guilty) are produced in sweatshop conditions. If someone can afford to amass a wealth of billilons of dollars they can afford to fairly pay workers and have humane working conditions the only reason not too is pure greed.
I will agree that the new generation of tech billionaires are nowhere near as guilty of these atrocities as the oil/mining/manufacturing tycoons that have exploited people for profit at every possible turn and it is well documented.
Do you seriously deny the existance of child labour, sweat shops, death trap mines, corporate take over of disenfranchised area to exploit resources? Who do you think is perpatrating these acts?
And the resource they are hoarding is money...which can be turned into food, housing etc so basically every resource.
You can go ahead and say the plight of the poor is not these peoples issue but the large majority of the population of the earth has absolutely no chance to be in a position where they can succeed and the fact that these people were in a position to be able to amass this wealth started by winning a 1 in 3 billion lottery and not being born into a 3rd world country.
I'm sure you position on this subject would be very different if you were born into absolute poverty in the Congo through the rape of your mother.
They work there because they are better than the available alternatives.
By passing laws to regulate and restrict sweatshops, we take away from people the best of a lot of bad alternatives.
People that aren't working in sweatshops are either working less desirable agrarian jobs, resorting to prostitution, or starving to death.
Unfortunately we live in a world with scarce resources, and people in 3rd world countries continue to pump out more mouths than they can feed.
Hopefully as automation improves and we become more efficient with resources, or perhaps, even start producing surpluses of resources, it will be easier to lift more people out of poverty.
Things actually have been improving.
I wish Hillary would violate me like she violated federal law
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01-17-2017, 12:35 AM
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#110
- gunshow101
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Originally Posted By RC2008⏩
WTF do you expect to see? roads paved in gold? a billion dollars donated is peanuts on a global scale. he could have constructed a few hospitals in africa and spent hundreds of millions and youd have no clue it ever happened. you honestly think these donations would have an impact on your life???? LOLAll these donations... yet we don't see their SIGNIFICANT effects... ANYWHERE.
Lol
Lol
buys picture frames with stock photos of happy families and hangs them in house so i feel like i have friends crew.
01-17-2017, 12:36 AM
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#111
- RobParks2M
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Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
just like everything there has to be some restrictions to keep things in check. But realistically some is better than nothing. Unfortunately there are more people looking for chitty jobs than there are chitty jobs so if you force certain benefits then how do you choose which poor people you give the jobs to? At that point you choose which people you doom with no jobs and those you give great jobs to. How does that change the dynamic at all?How are they not responsible for where they choose to manufacture their products?
They purposefully find the cheapest labor possible, with the knowledge that the people are working in chitty conditions.
They could demand good working conditions, but they know that would raise the cost of manufacturing. So they turn a blind eye, until it's exposed by journalists or human rights non-profits.
How does government enforced working conditions and employee rights = free-market capitalism?
They purposefully find the cheapest labor possible, with the knowledge that the people are working in chitty conditions.
They could demand good working conditions, but they know that would raise the cost of manufacturing. So they turn a blind eye, until it's exposed by journalists or human rights non-profits.
How does government enforced working conditions and employee rights = free-market capitalism?
Fitness connoisseur
0.4 mg of party's over wake the FK up!
"the personification of greatness"
01-17-2017, 12:38 AM
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#112
- FunnyWeasel
- BlackWeasel
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Originally Posted By RobParks2M⏩
For the record, the descendants of Buffet/Gates would get extremely if they found out their wealth was being given "away" just so that it would get inevitably squandered in the process.wrong again. Buffet/Gates are giving a majority of their shares/wealth away. Granted their children, getting only a small % of the fortune, are getting plenty to live on.
HOWEVER, I think you are correct that we should make sure all billionaires follow suit with proper taxation to prevent the money from moving further than 1 generation.
HOWEVER, I think you are correct that we should make sure all billionaires follow suit with proper taxation to prevent the money from moving further than 1 generation.
There has to be heavy taxes otherwise money would be overall worthless in the end. The fact that 8 men hold that much wealth supports the end result of making money. The fuking monopoly game shows what would happen when one guy owns all the properties on the board.
Jeff Bezos = online shopping
Bill Gates = operating system
Carlos Slim = only telecommunications company in Mexico
Mark Zuckerberg = social media
Warren Buffett = go-to guy for investing in small companies. And since he apparently reads over 300 pages a day, you can bet your ass he'll buy up the stock of a company and jack up the prices.
Anyways I smell a revolt happening.
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01-17-2017, 12:40 AM
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#113
Originally Posted By BetaAsPhuck⏩
They aren't responsible though. They used the tools available to them. The true responsibility falls on the politicians of the countries with the slave labor, that's where your anger should be directed.How are they not responsible for where they choose to manufacture their products?
They purposefully find the cheapest labor possible, with the knowledge that the people are working in chitty conditions.
They could demand good working conditions, but they know that would raise the cost of manufacturing. So they turn a blind eye, until it's exposed by journalists or human rights non-profits.
How does government enforced working conditions and employee rights = free-market capitalism?
They purposefully find the cheapest labor possible, with the knowledge that the people are working in chitty conditions.
They could demand good working conditions, but they know that would raise the cost of manufacturing. So they turn a blind eye, until it's exposed by journalists or human rights non-profits.
How does government enforced working conditions and employee rights = free-market capitalism?
Overall, most of the 8 guys in the OP are actually very positive people for the life and human advancement in general. They advanced our innovation by huge leaps, advanced our communication, advanced economies and drove business lifting tens of millions out of poverty around the globe, and will end up donating massive amounts of their wealth to good causes moving humans along the line.
The people slowing the process of overall human greatness are the politicians of corrupt failed states. Also, the people in those countries not forcing a better government. European countries have done it, it can be repeated. Thankfully, some countries are following, just not all and not fast enough. Economies are growing, these 8 guys are huge contributors for the human race. I think most of your anger should be somewhere else.
Also like I said a few pages ago, stats can be deceiving. I don't know you, but I can almost bet you have more wealth than the bottom 500 million people combined just assuming you're the average guy in the US or parts of Europe. Does that mean you're extremely greedy?
No.
Does that mean I should divide up your wealth and give back to those 500 million people?
No.
There is just a lot of poverty in the world that is unsolvable, and 7+ billion people on Earth, so stats like that are unavoidable until governments around the world create better opportunities for local economies and better laws.
I guess I did have the energy for a debate tonight.
01-17-2017, 12:41 AM
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#114
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Originally Posted By Hadtodoit⏩
So everyone except for rich people needs to follow a moral compass, **** they have played you so good you dont even know it.I know this wasn't directed at me but to respond for him a bit, you're pointing out a serious and real problem but then wrongly pointing the blame finger the wrong way.
The blame is not these rich guys in the OP, it's failed governments of the nations that host this sort of slave labor. They need to learn how European countries did it and follow. It's the responsibility of the people of those countries to right their ship, and create a fair and functioning government using capitalism with laws to control it, like the US did. It surely isn't the fault of the great innovators.
The blame is not these rich guys in the OP, it's failed governments of the nations that host this sort of slave labor. They need to learn how European countries did it and follow. It's the responsibility of the people of those countries to right their ship, and create a fair and functioning government using capitalism with laws to control it, like the US did. It surely isn't the fault of the great innovators.
You along with 90% of the people in this thread have no clue how a global economy works. Legislation that harms business removes it.
Things are always as good or as bad as you think they're going to be
01-17-2017, 12:41 AM
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#115
- FunnyWeasel
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Originally Posted By CptClean⏩
There is a solution and its called abandoning cowardice that a lot of people seem to have right now. You really think that this will go on?There is no solution humans have been exploiting eachother since our inception and will continue to do so until we destroy ourselves.
If slaves on the plantation can go on a rebellion in the 1830s, then I'm pretty sure that fast-food/retail workers will do the same.
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01-17-2017, 12:44 AM
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#116
Originally Posted By GardHainer⏩
Straw man, I didn't imply any of that, re-read my post I don't think you read it slowly enough.So everyone except for rich people needs to follow a moral compass, **** they have played you so good you dont even know it.
You along with 90% of the people in this thread have no clue how a global economy works. Legislation that harms business removes it.
You along with 90% of the people in this thread have no clue how a global economy works. Legislation that harms business removes it.
I said where the fault and responsibility is, never anything like what you're implying. Also read my post just above.
01-17-2017, 12:44 AM
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#117
- RobParks2M
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Originally Posted By FunnyWeasel⏩
Bruh. Ik its late but wake your ignorant ass up. Those fellas kids are in charge of the foundations responsible for giving the money away. Their jobs in life have been finding suitable uses for their parents money. Like I said they are set for life, but their lives have been purely about giving back to the world and making it a better place.For the record, the descendants of Buffet/Gates would get extremely if they found out their wealth was being given "away" just so that it would get inevitably squandered in the process.
There has to be heavy taxes otherwise money would be overall worthless in the end. The fact that 8 men hold that much wealth supports the end result of making money. The fuking monopoly game shows what would happen when one guy owns all the properties on the board.
Jeff Bezos = online shopping
Bill Gates = operating system
Carlos Slim = only telecommunications company in Mexico
Mark Zuckerberg = social media
Warren Buffett = go-to guy for investing in small companies. And since he apparently reads over 300 pages a day, you can bet your ass he'll buy up the stock of a company and jack up the prices.
Anyways I smell a revolt happening.
There has to be heavy taxes otherwise money would be overall worthless in the end. The fact that 8 men hold that much wealth supports the end result of making money. The fuking monopoly game shows what would happen when one guy owns all the properties on the board.
Jeff Bezos = online shopping
Bill Gates = operating system
Carlos Slim = only telecommunications company in Mexico
Mark Zuckerberg = social media
Warren Buffett = go-to guy for investing in small companies. And since he apparently reads over 300 pages a day, you can bet your ass he'll buy up the stock of a company and jack up the prices.
Anyways I smell a revolt happening.
What you have to realize is that each of those dudes is gonna die and their ownership gets broken up and given to the descendants. Slim idk about because Mexico doesn't run like the US but all the others eventually get broken up.
You can hope for some silly ass revolt, but I'll sleep well tonight knowing there is no way that the 2-3% of idiots unhappy with their lot in life could never overcome the military, police, and armed citizens who will protect the liberties of our constitution and way of life.
Fitness connoisseur
0.4 mg of party's over wake the FK up!
"the personification of greatness"
01-17-2017, 12:46 AM
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#118
Originally Posted By Hadtodoit⏩
I guess we'd of like mind in favor of a more Euro form of capitalism with higher taxes/more graduated tax brackets and better social safety net.Curious what you think about my proposed ideas above/my responses so far.
People have to work and things like welfare and unemployment can't get too generous but I think it's shameful that education is more necessary than ever, costs more than ever inflation adjusted, and continues to act as a (if not the) major class divider. I think it's fuked up that kids are raised in poverty because their parents screwed up and people would rather have a couple more toys now then raise a function generation to follow them and develop a happier society/better economy and get their toys down the road.
I believe in death taxes because Waltons kids didn't do chit and--as dubious as the argument that anyone should have billions--they even more clearly have no moral argument to possess that kind of wealth. I don't think there is a good non-moralistic, efficiency type argument for letting them retain most of the billions inherited as they weren't insightful and prudent enough to build the empire (which, if they did, might suggest they could intelligently reinvesting that capital).
Most Underrated Exercise: Barbell Hack Squats.
Hold last rep on last set Deadlifts/Hack Squats for easy forearm/upper trap development.
01-17-2017, 12:46 AM
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#119
- RobParks2M
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Originally Posted By FunnyWeasel⏩
is that before or after they are phased out by machines? You say measles is around for crowd control, but economics does the same thing m8.There is a solution and its called abandoning cowardice that a lot of people seem to have right now. You really think that this will go on?
If slaves on the plantation can go on a rebellion in the 1830s, then I'm pretty sure that fast-food/retail workers will do the same.
If slaves on the plantation can go on a rebellion in the 1830s, then I'm pretty sure that fast-food/retail workers will do the same.
Fitness connoisseur
0.4 mg of party's over wake the FK up!
"the personification of greatness"
01-17-2017, 12:48 AM
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#120
Originally Posted By RobParks2M⏩
Eazy-E is his profile pic and based on the sig I'm assuming he just fell for the media's ploy to make him hate anyone who's rich and white, when really the issues lies in other ares (listed above) and when he better understands the world his anger will go other places, not necessarily these 8 great innovators.Bruh. Ik its late but wake your ignorant ass up. Those fellas kids are in charge of the foundations responsible for giving the money away. Their jobs in life have been finding suitable uses for their parents money. Like I said they are set for life, but their lives have been purely about giving back to the world and making it a better place.
What you have to realize is that each of those dudes is gonna die and their ownership gets broken up and given to the descendants. Slim idk about because Mexico doesn't run like the US but all the others eventually get broken up.
You can hope for some silly ass revolt, but I'll sleep well tonight knowing there is no way that the 2-3% of idiots unhappy with their lot in life could never overcome the military, police, and armed citizens who will protect the liberties of our constitution and way of life.
What you have to realize is that each of those dudes is gonna die and their ownership gets broken up and given to the descendants. Slim idk about because Mexico doesn't run like the US but all the others eventually get broken up.
You can hope for some silly ass revolt, but I'll sleep well tonight knowing there is no way that the 2-3% of idiots unhappy with their lot in life could never overcome the military, police, and armed citizens who will protect the liberties of our constitution and way of life.
Yes, I think they need to be taxed a bit more but the media has tricked people into thinking they are evil. You can easily tell who falls for stuff easily and who doesn't in this thread.
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