BJJ also has its roots very much in catch wrestling.

No, it's a system of techniques and principles.

Do you understand the above sentence? Not to be a dick, but do you understand what that means?Yes, they do.

1) Combat sambo involves no strikes on the ground. So they have to learn how to strike on the ground, and how to defend strikes on the ground.

2) The ground fighting is very limited by time. They have to scramble to get their techniques in before they are stood up. Whereas the groundfighting of MMA, involves long drawn on 'chess' sessions. Which requires a completely different approach.

3) Combat Sambo uses a Gi. Although they may do Gi less training in non-competition, the competion involves Gi.


Combat Sambo definitely has to be adapted to MMA, and they definitely have to learn new things.

What Fedor did was not pure Combat Sambo.


Sambo groundfighting and brazilian jiu jitsu aren't interchangeable, they have strong similarities but they aren't the same.

Just like Catch wrestling isn't interchangeable with Brazilian Jiu Jitsu or Sambo Ground fighting, despite strong similarities.

No ground striking is a huge difference in rules.

No time limit on grappling (as long as both fighters aren't in a stalemate) is a huge difference in rules.

I’m not interested in examples that include a first timer going against an all time great. At all.

Which is why I provided athletes in their prime that have been in the sport relatively the same amount of time.

Not sure how you Guys feel comfortable using that fight as a reputable example when you know it’s a piss poor one. If that’s the only example you got, it basically proves my point.

I have you in prime athletes fighting for titles. Cmon y’all lol

I agree.

Randy is not an all time great in wrestling.

If you've seen the match, he used really basic grappling. I mean...Reallybasic.

He used an incredible basic wrestling takedown, and once Toney was down.... Phuck... I could have defeated him. He looked like a tortoise that had been turned upside down.
You don't have any pure fighters vs pure grapplers, in your examples.

You have MMA fighter who are primarily strikers (and black belts and brown belts in Jiu Jitsu) vs MMA fighters who are primarily grapplers.

If you want to see striking vs grappling, look at the early UFCs. Grapplers demonstrably dominated. That's not opinion. The strikers predictably and regularly lost to the grapplers... Until they trained grappling defence.

I just want to put out that I have been on both ends of the argument here.

I wrestled for 10 years, and have been boxing for the last 5.

Considering that, I genuinely don't understand the logic behind most of the arguments here. I look at it this way;

98% of the time you are about to fight, you are very well aware it is about to happen. You're both posturing, and it's quite evident that unless one of you backs down it is going to lead up to a fight.

Somebody has to throw the first punch, and that somebody should be you.

Knockouts are more likely when the punch is not seen, or immediately expected. If you're in the middle of a shouting match that is obviously going to turn violent, there is no reason not to swing first unless you can't escape/he has a ton of buddies (in which case, why tf are you in a shouting match with his whole crew?). And if you have realized that you have no immediate escape if plan A fails, and that he has buddies, you better be willing to back down if you know what's good for you. Your ego and some stranger's opinion of you just aren't worth getting seriously injured over.

I rarely see fights begin with a tackle, or throw, but they can (and often do end up there). So if you keep this in mind, why would a striking art not be the first priority? Sure if they manage to eat your punch, and tackle you, it'd be nice to know how to grapple. But 98% of the time if you hit first, precise and hard, you won't have to deal with this.

If we're talking learning one art specifically, I would pick one that would teach me to hit precisely and secure a knockout in the majority of situations. Even if you don't secure the knockout, if you wobble somebody, that is enough time to get out of there.

The fact of the matter is this; if you are fighting in a public place you are likely to end up in a ton of trouble. Why would it make sense to prolong the amount of time you spend in the fight?

Hit once, twice, maybe three times and be out. Don't stay long enough to get picked up by the cops, or for the other guy's friends to come along.

Let's keep in mind 99.9% of the misc is not expert level at any martial art, and that the 0.01% that is (if they do misc, which is unlikely) probably would agree that the majority of martial arts are situation specific.

That being said, if you are talking about a competition fight, and/or sanctioned bout... This argument then changes to conform to what the most well-rounded art is.

In a competition, both fighters are aware that combat is currently in action. This is a stark contrast to a street fight, which has a more murky/convoluted beginning in most cases.

So if mutual combat is established, things become much different. There is no need to strike first, but to strike before the opponent enters his range. Striking is still important, but becomes just as important as other techniques.

Hopefully that quells some of the vitriol...

All this, and I don't even understand what he is trying to argue at this point. He has completely back peddled from essentially "boxers can destroy pansy grapplers" to all these weak excuses when one example was brought up.

For another example -

I used to train at Miletich's back in the day, and one of the first Pro boxers to have some success in MMA (Laverne Clarke) was training there as well. His MMA career includes 18 losses via submission, and you bet your ass wrestler Matt Hughes (who was also training there) had a far more successful career than him

Apt totoise reference, as I mentioned it took Randy less than 4 seconds to get mount...Toney was giving up his arms almost immediately, but Randy decided to whoop on him a bit.

OP lists pure striking or pure grappling arts along with mixed arts like Combat Sambo and Krav Maga. This is silly, since then MMA should be on there too. Sambo was developed from other various pure striking and pure grappling arts to create this no name mixture which they just abbreviated as “self combat” or “Samo oborona bez oruzhia” literally translation: self defense without a weapon. It was not a Martial Art, it was Mixed Martial Arts for military.

There is no reason to say a student from Combat Sambo school can enter the OP competition, but someone from an MMA school can’t.

Can you please explain to me what the difference is between K1 and Muay Thai?

Can you please explain to me what the difference is between BJJ and ADCC Submission Wrestling World Championship?

If you can answer those questions, then you can understand the difference between Combat Sambo and MMA.

Slightly different rules is the answer to both of your questions.

this. its 2019, not times of confucius where ur carrying water from a mountain river and came across some bandits (although im sure they even had weapons back then).


i would pick bjj because its more fun and u get more opportunities to show it off more.



a dude at a gym i was training at got stabbed thru the chest outside a club and he was brain dead last time i heard, so yea street fights are bad mmm'kay?

whatever this guy did

Muay Thai is a system of techniques and principles and a combat sport, K1 is a ruleset.

For example; Taekwondo kicks are different to Muay Thai kicks. But Muay Thai and Taekwondo practitioners can fight one another under K1 rules. So how do you 'train k1'?

Taekwondo vs Muay Thai...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCbKfkrT92I


BJJ is a system of techniques and principles and a combat sport, ADCC is a ruleset.

For example; catch wrestling's core principles, and some techniques are different to BJJ. But Catch Wrestlers and BJJ practitioners can grapple under ADCC rules. So how do you 'train ADCC'?

Catch wrestling vs BJJ...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X5N_7LCVtM

There are people who 'train MMA', and they tend to produce a crude skill level(based on my friend, who is a martial arts instructor, and has trained at Muay Thai, BJJ, and MMA gyms. He basically describes that MMA gyms don't teach people good fundamentals in any range, but they are very good for showing how to mix the arts.)

What the best practioners tend to do is train with specialists, and they train with coaches who show them how to mix the arts. Which is why you see MMA fighters boxing with boxers, grappling with BJJ champs, and wrestling with olympic wrestlers.

Muay Thai anyone saying any different are likely to get their ass beat with any other martialart

Yes, catch wrestling is a pin or submission game (though most of the time submissions were used to achieve the pin), no point system.

You'll also find catch wrestlers working to stand up rather than work from their back and risk the pin....Although many catch wrestlers are are more proficient off their back than given credit for.

If you’re in a bar fight, wrestling is useless unless you want to hold onto the guy until someone stops it.

I’m betting on the boxer EVERY SINGLE TIME if he is head up with a wrestler lol. Now, if it’s the first time the boxer has ever stepped into an octogon vs someone who has been doing it their whole life, yea sure. Give me the all time great.


Meanwhile, good luck winning the street fight with grappling as your only skill. Good job bro. You took him down and got stomped out by bouncers. Meanwhile the boxer knocks dude out and gets out before the bouncers even know what’s happened.

Kick boxing / Boxing > grappling every time. Ask Ronda Rousey.

I’m out. Can’t argue with ppl who have never trained combat and have never fought.


Monday morning Posers.


Edit - biggest male star the UFC has ever seen = mcgregor = boxing base.

Baddest woman on earth = nunes = boxing base

Rousey first devastating loss = Holm = Boxing base

There’s a reason for that..

Unsubbed.

Who do you think you would last longer against, Saenchai or Buakaw?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcTZH9Bxsik

I think that Saenchai would toy with me for longer, before putting me into a coma. Whereas Buakaw would probably be moving in to cripple me, as soon as the bell rung.

The early UFCs are clear evidence that you would likely be throwing away your money.

I don't think you've watched them.

A one on one fight... Grappler.

Buakaw is aggressive af in the way he moves and throws. Taking my chances of surviving longer with Saenchai in hopes he does a few dance moves to start with

But what about pepper spray and taser?

What wins? taser VS knife, pepper spray VS knife, pepper spray VS taser.

Boxing because it’s fun and I’m too old to learn anything new.

ER staff can tell you they get people in all the time with broken hands because everyone thinks they are Mike Tyson and start boxing on the street or in a bar, forgetting that there are no gloves...


Come to think of it Mike Tyson also broke his hand in a street fight.

All of the arts here are amazing in their own right and have their up and down sides. I believe how you train is more important than what art you train. As long as you do some life sparring all arts will help you.


Striking arts are probably a little better for street fights, but slamming somebody with a grappling art will work well enough. I also like how you can stop aggressors without causing injuries when you are a grappler. If some thug on a bus was insulting a grandma and you just sucker punched him from behind, you would be going to jail. If you just took him down and held him, you will be safe. This allows you to act preemptively and help others much easier. Bjj or wrestling would therefore be great for cops IMO.
A lot of self defense is based on super deadly worst case scenarios, you will rarely encounter if you live in a stable environment. ("But what are you going to do if you get attacked by 5 killer clowns with chainsaws riding an M1 Abrams tank?")

The reason I chose Grappling/Bjj wasn't due to looking for the perfect art. I was looking for something that fits my bodytype with a legit gym nearby. Due to me being quite strong and short for my weight I knew I could excel more picking some grappling art. Googling the successes of my future coaches, I decided for Grappling.
If I was more of a lanky guy, I would likely have chosen Kickboxing, boxing or Muay Thai. (Having cross trained all three a little, I would have enjoyed boxing the most in hindsight.)Old school taekwondo coaches in my country are pretty tough, there is not much of a difference to kickboxing.
Than taekwondo schools started focussing on sports and becoming more motivating to kids giving out black belts to eleven-year olds and you got a lot of younger taekwondo people, who can barely fight a heavy bag.

Krav Maga would be pretty cool, if you are old and or really unathletic. While you would fail at adapting to boxing or wrestling workouts at first(and assuming bad willpower likely give up fast), you could still learn some solid self defence tricks for bad situations in Krav Maga. It would also be good for someone, who wants immidiate results and does not want to spend months until he really gets good.(like an Israeli army recruit)Eye pokes are not a viable tactic in a fight. It is much easier to just land a punch than an eye poke.Or you can just grab him and hold him. He will likely give up and diffuse the situation, if he realizes how much stronger you are and how he is unable to attack at all.

^While I agree that is a solution, it is much more risky. It involves him not having friends, and him calming down.

My whole philosophy has always been this; don't get into fights.

But if you do, make sure it's over before it really begins. By holding the other person, you run the risk of prolonging it, and getting yourself in more trouble.

That's generally all I am saying. Not to just hit anybody you are in an altercation with, but to do so when fighting is inevitable, and to do it first--the right way.

Hence boxing IMO

Here's a good lesson for anyone who's never wrestled in high school or taken a BJJ class.....if someone is starting **** with you at the bar and they have cauliflower ear, run, and run fast. lol

MMA watcher and practitioner since Pride (2004) here.

Traditional martial arts work, provided it is a supplement to a Wrestling/Muay Thai/Kickboxing/BJJ base.

List of champions/highly ranked fighters that have practised some form of traditional mixed martial arts on top of a base art:

-Chuck Liddell (Karate)
-Frank Mir (Karate)
-Lyoto Machida (Karate)
-Jerome Le Banner (Karate)
-Bas Rutten (Karate)
-Belfort (Karate)
-GSP (Karate)
-Anderson Silva (taekwando)
-Anthony Pettis (taekwando)
-Edson Barboza (taekwondo)
-Chan SUng Jung (taekwondo)
-Mirko Filipovic (taekwondo)

+ countless more.

Taekwondo is great when strikers that are already proficient start adding some of the spinning **** to their game (i.e. Barboza).LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Muay Thai is kickboxing with elbows and knees. You'll get besmirched by a muay thai practitioner with any sort of training/coordination.

Only niche kickboxing federations/disciplines allow knees and elbows where it might as well be called Muay Thai.

Wrestling

I honestly theorised that wrestlers would/should dominate MMA

And now they are, feel when you make a right prediction

IMO it depends on your body type

For example if you're 165cm and weigh like 60kgs then you would be much better picking BJJ rather than say greco wrestling

Or if you're 190cm, weigh 120kgs and are kinda slow, you probs shouldn't pick tae kwon do (weaker than all the rest anyway), you would prob get put in submission by some guy half your size that knows BJJ

But to give you an answer, for the ideal body type, let's say 175-180cm, 75-80 kgs ripped, above average reflexes/speed and above average strength I would pick combat sambo, if combat sambo is not aloud then BJJ