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Forum » Bitch sentenced for her boyfriends suicide
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Thread: Bitch sentenced for her boyfriends suicide

post 1573469081 02-12-2019, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted By HayZues
I already said I dont think she is without culpability.

I told 2019 to go home.. a pretty common euphemism to show a distaste for current social norms. Never told you to "leave."

Reckless endangerment might fit, I dont have the answers sway .
You don't have the answers to the exact questions I asked? I'll repost them:

"How was Manson responsible for manslaughter, but she gets off scott free? What about the posts stating that she withheld information from the police? What is your stance on that? Do you feel that intentionally manipulating a suicidal person who loves you into killing themselves, and coaching them exactly on how to do so means one is innocent when that person eventually goes through with it?"
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post 1573469121 02-12-2019, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted By HayZues
Lol wut? Do people even use reality anymore, or just make up any narrative they see fit to try and make a point?

Defending her so hard?

Brb calling her out for being a horrible, soulless, human kunt, but not thinking manslaughter fits = defending her so hard??

Go home 2019. Discourse is fuked.
You're defending her right to freedom. What don't you get? Need us to break it down?


She convinced her boyfriend, who loved her, that he needed to kill himself. He went through multiple moments of doubt and all she could say was "do it", except in a more convincing fashion. She didn't tell anyone what he was saying. She didn't give that information to police, and never suggested anything other than to kill himself. Somehow you think she deserves to walk away from this, though.

Hey man, I don't have kids, but if my kid acted normal and I found out these messages were going on behind my back with his girlfriend, then I would expect some sort of justice. This kid looks like he had one crossing though of suicide and wanted to just forget about it. She made sure he wouldn't forget, though.
post 1573469181 02-12-2019, 10:03 AM
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She absolutely deserves to rot in prison for life.
post 1573469201 02-12-2019, 10:03 AM
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[QUOTE=bartosh post_id=1573468241]ITT: people defending her that are ignoring the entire reason she was sentenced.[b]She also withheld information pre/post the event to family/law enforcement which could have potentially[likely] saved him.[/b]Combine that with those texts, and the right decision was easily made.


Tell me, do you think Charles Manson shouldn't have gone to prison for manslaughter? [Spoiler alert: that's what he went to jail for]. He was never convicted of directly killing anybody, just[b]manipulating [/b]people into killing others.[/QUOTE]
Wrong.

Manson was convicted of 7 counts of 1st degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder.


Lmao @ "spoiler alert''
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post 1573469251 02-12-2019, 10:04 AM
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[QUOTE=bartosh post_id=1573468241]ITT: people defending her that are ignoring the entire reason she was sentenced.[b]She also withheld information pre/post the event to family/law enforcement which could have potentially[likely] saved him.[/b]Combine that with those texts, and the right decision was easily made.


Tell me, do you think Charles Manson shouldn't have gone to prison for manslaughter? [Spoiler alert: that's what he went to jail for]. He was never convicted of directly killing anybody, just[b]manipulating [/b]people into killing others.[/QUOTE]I agree that punishment is appropriate, but this is quite different than the Charles Manson situation. Conspiracy to commit a crime[i]against a third party to the conspiracy[/i]is very ordinary in our legal system. It doesn't require any novel legal theories. The difference here is that the victim is one of the perpetrators. As a general matter, we don't want to eliminate agency for victims except in certain clearly defined contexts (underage victims, mentally retarded victims, etc.). To do so invites moral hazard and goes against norms of consent.

However, the situation here is so extreme, that it wouldn't be hard to justify removing agency from the victim -- a mentally ill individual -- and conclude that the gf was the driving force. This isn't a case where both players appear equally crazy. On the contrary, she seems cold and calculating.
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post 1573469331 02-12-2019, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted By MichelleLnne⏩
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_negligence
This could definitely apply as well, but I think they need to have Good Sam laws to really drive the point home. It reminds me of this famous case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese

IMO there should be a law where if you do not do what you reasonably can to discourage a suicide and get help from authorities, you are guilty of some form of criminal negligence via a Good Samaritan statute.
post 1573469341 02-12-2019, 10:05 AM
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Jesus fukkin christ @ those messages....



Cant believe he tipped his fedora to the point of death
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post 1573469371 02-12-2019, 10:05 AM
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OP - would you feel the same if someone told your close family member to "KYS" and pushing them over the edge? You're probably going to answer "yes, culpability, etc. etc."

Would you feel the same if you knew said family member was having issues and was reaching out to someone so close to them - someone they love - that they are urging them to do it?

The teenager was probably embarrassed to reach out to his parents, so he obviously confided to the next closest person to him - which told him to just end it all. It's absolutely disgusting what she did.
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post 1573469381 02-12-2019, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted By HayZues
Wrong.

Manson was convicted of 7 counts of 1st degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder.


Lmao @ "spoiler alert''
Nope.

"Manson's followers committed a series of nine murders at four locations in July and August 1969. In 1971, he was convicted of first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder for the deaths of seven people,all of which members of the group carried out at his instruction."


I bolded the important part in case you have trouble seeing and doing a simple google search.
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post 1573469431 02-12-2019, 10:06 AM
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i will say the boy is responsible for his own death but we can't sit here and say the girl had no part in it. do we know details such as how did this start, how did it lead up to her telling him to kill himself?
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post 1573469621 02-12-2019, 10:08 AM
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Are wincel and Hayzeus defending another slot ITT?

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post 1573469741 02-12-2019, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted By Muzzlrpress⏩
You don't have the answers to the exact questions I asked? I'll repost them:

"How was Manson responsible for manslaughter, but she gets off scott free? What about the posts stating that she withheld information from the police? What is your stance on that? Do you feel that intentionally manipulating a suicidal person who loves you into killing themselves, and coaching them exactly on how to do so means one is innocent when that person eventually goes through with it?"
Manson was responsible for manslaughter because he was essentially part of a conspiracy to commit murder. He encouraged others to murder targets. If she withheld information from the police, you would need to look carefully at what types of laws that would violate. At best, this alone would merely justify an obstruction charge. Manipulation and coaching does not make one innocent morally. However, one is innocent of any form of murder. What they could do, as I said, is implement a Good Samaritan law, which would require people to act in good faith to discourage suicide. Then, they could have charged someone like her with criminal negligence for violating that law and failing to uphold the standards of a good samaritan. This is the most logical way to do it, imo. She is not directly responsible for his murder.
post 1573469761 02-12-2019, 10:10 AM
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Didn't read but negged OP for being one of the biggest idiots on this forum, congrats
post 1573469771 02-12-2019, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted By Muzzlrpress⏩
You don't have the answers to the exact questions I asked? I'll repost them:

"How was Manson responsible for manslaughter, but she gets off scott free? What about the posts stating that she withheld information from the police? What is your stance on that? Do you feel that intentionally manipulating a suicidal person who loves you into killing themselves, and coaching them exactly on how to do so means one is innocent when that person eventually goes through with it?"
I'm not sure Manson wasnt over charged tbh.

However the criminal planning of a homicide is a felony. Any death that occur in result of a felony are felony murder. Making Manson guilty of felony murder and the minimim.

Also do not see a lot of parallels between the cases. Suicide =/= murder. Cult leader =/= ex gf.


How about my scenario of being out and a chick convinces you to drive drunk for a booty call. You crash and die... manslaughter?
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post 1573469811 02-12-2019, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted By MichelleLnne⏩
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_negligence
Originally Posted By wincel⏩
This could definitely apply as well, but I think they need to have Good Sam laws to really drive the point home. It reminds me of this famous case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese

IMO there should be a law where if you do not do what you reasonably can to discourage a suicide and get help from authorities, you are guilty of some form of criminal negligence via a Good Samaritan statute.
Criminal negligence doesn't apply. Michelle Carter wasn't showing extreme wrecklessness (total lack of care) to injury to her boyfriend; she was intentionally causing it. In terms of mens rea (guilty intent), her conduct is way beyond criminal negligence. On the other hand, his injury isn't the result of her direct actions without his intervention. Negligence theories always fall apart if the proximal cause of the injury is the victim himself. Both of these standards need to be met here.
Take it easy Christian
post 1573469901 02-12-2019, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted By ChristianMR⏩
Criminal negligence doesn't apply. Michelle Carter wasn't showing extreme wrecklessness (total lack of care) to injury to her boyfriend; she was intentionally causing it. In terms of mens rea (guilty intent), her conduct is way beyond criminal negligence. On the other hand, his injury isn't the result of her direct actions without his intervention. Negligence theories always fall apart if the proximal cause of the injury is the victim himself. Both of these standards need to be met here.
That's why criminal negligence would require an additional Good Sam law, as I keep saying they need to write. As for what to do about specifically her, IDK.
post 1573470091 02-12-2019, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted By 69Lbs⏩
So I watch a movie about killing people and three I go out and kill people, whose at fault? “But the movie influenced me”...
Completely different scenario.
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post 1573470121 02-12-2019, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
That's why criminal negligence would require an additional Good Sam law, as I keep saying they need to write.
The good samaritan type laws are defenses to negligence when someone tries (and fails) to help a person in need. I think you're imaging something different -- a statute governing crimes of omission (failure to act), which is extremely rare. In any event, this is an affirmative attempt to harm -- not a crime of omission.
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post 1573470251 02-12-2019, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted By ChristianMR⏩
The good samaritan type laws are defenses to negligence. I think you're imaging something different -- a statute governing crimes of omission (failure to act), which is extremely rare. In any event, this is an affirmative attempt to harm -- not a crime of omission.
She failed to report the suicidal behavior to the police. This is what I am saying needs to be made into law. A reasonable person ought to be obligated to offer any reasonable service they can to discourage suicide and to report it to the authorities. This is what I mean by "Good Sam law" in this context. You are right that I confused the terminology. I am not a lawyer. I am meaning there needs to be a statute to obligate a reasonable person to do what they can in good faith to help stop or at the very least, report, a crime.


Upon further reading, I am talking about a "Duty to Rescue" law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_rescue

Replace instances of "Good Sam" that I said, to "Duty to Rescue" because that was what I meant.
post 1573470311 02-12-2019, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
My mom has literally done similar chit to me and coached me to jump from parking structures, told me I was a burden to her and ruined her life, etc. I'm still alive because I wanted to be alive. Every suicidal person has a choice. I'm trying to remind everyone that in those final moments, the words of a loved one are as distant and fleeting as the stars in the sky. Nothing anyone says affects you at that point. It literally becomes just you and the end. You have to be there to understand that..
I've been suicidally depressed, and attempted in my late teens.

IME how people treat you can make a huge difference when you are in that state.

You and I have very different experiences.

No two people are the same, and this kid repeatedly expressed doubt to his girlfriend.

She literally told him the method, discouraged his doubts, and encouraged him to kill himself.

A lot of suicidal people don't tell people beforehand, this kid expressed his suicidal intention (and doubts) to her repeatedly.

Edit: Sorry to read that you had an abusive mother.
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post 1573470481 02-12-2019, 10:18 AM
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whatever the case may be (lul), i think we can all agree this story has put the human race back several years
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post 1573470611 02-12-2019, 10:20 AM
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She is far more evil than most straight up murderers, should be in prison or psychiatric hospital for 20 years minimum.
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post 1573470741 02-12-2019, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted By HayZues
I'm not sure Manson wasnt over charged tbh.

However the criminal planning of a homicide is a felony. Any death that occur in result of a felony are felony murder. Making Manson guilty of felony murder and the minimim.

Also do not see a lot of parallels between the cases. Suicide =/= murder. Cult leader =/= ex gf.


How about my scenario of being out and a chick convinces you to drive drunk for a booty call. You crash and die... manslaughter?
That is a stupid comparison.

1. Scenario in OP: Girl plots to have bf kill himself, overcomes all of his objections and actively uses his feeling for her into killing himself. Goes so far as to tell him how to do it, and is unrelenting in trying to get him to do it.

2. Scenario you just mentioned: Booty call is horny and thinks you can handle your alcohol. You can't, so you crash and die.


I can't believe that you actually are comparing these two things.
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post 1573470881 02-12-2019, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted By ChristianMR⏩
Criminal negligence doesn't apply. Michelle Carter wasn't showing extreme wrecklessness (total lack of care) to injury to her boyfriend; she was intentionally causing it. In terms of mens rea (guilty intent), her conduct is way beyond criminal negligence. On the other hand, his injury isn't the result of her direct actions without his intervention. Negligence theories always fall apart if the proximal cause of the injury is the victim himself. Both of these standards need to be met here.
I was trying to find the closest thing and when looking at that I was thinking more about how she didn’t stop him from doing it... something closer to a hit and run. I guess. My moms talking to me while I’m trying to get my thoughts out. So it’s not coming out very clear. So she wouldn’t have caused his death but she let it happen by being negligent towards someone who was weaker minded for whatever reason.

I think it’s obvious her charges don’t fit with any type of manslaughter definitions atm. They just decided that because her actions were so extreme that they’d work around that. I wonder if there will be appeals in the future? I’m assuming not with how little time she was sentenced.
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post 1573471011 02-12-2019, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted By Bracket199⏩
OP - would you feel the same if someone told your close family member to "KYS" and pushing them over the edge? You're probably going to answer "yes, culpability, etc. etc."

Would you feel the same if you knew said family member was having issues and was reaching out to someone so close to them - someone they love - that they are urging them to do it?

The teenager was probably embarrassed to reach out to his parents, so he obviously confided to the next closest person to him - which told him to just end it all. It's absolutely disgusting what she did.
I'd be beyond heartbroken and enraged. Upset with myself for not noticing the signs and getting them the help they needs. Would prob strongly consider vigilante justice.

I dont think she deserves no culpability. Just dont see manslaughter as a fit. Thread wasnt supposed to be such a troll trigger. Just open a discussion. But I guess that's just how it is in 2019.
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post 1573471081 02-12-2019, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted By Muzzlrpress⏩
That is a stupid comparison.

1. Scenario in OP: Girl plots to have bf kill himself, overcomes all of his objections and actively uses his feeling for her into killing himself. Goes so far as to tell him how to do it, and is unrelenting in trying to get him to do it.

2. Scenario you just mentioned: Booty call is horny and thinks you can handle your alcohol. You can't, so you crash and die.


I can't believe that you actually are comparing these two things.
What do you think about my idea of a Duty to Rescue law, and then considering it an act of criminal negligence if you fail to meet the standards of that law? A person like her would be in clear violation of that law. I just feel she isn't directly responsible for murder. Interestingly, you could also consider what she did to be a conspiracy to commit suicide. Suicide is no longer considered a crime though, afaik. If it were, they might have been able to charge her as a conspirator of his suicide, which would be very appropriate, given the circumstances.
Originally Posted By MichelleLnne⏩
I was trying to find the closest thing and when looking at that I was thinking more about how she didn’t stop him from doing it... something closer to a hit and run. I guess. My moms talking to me while I’m trying to get my thoughts out. So it’s not coming out very clear. So she wouldn’t have caused his death but she let it happen by being negligent towards someone who was weaker minded for whatever reason.
I agree with you. I think there should have been a kind of Duty to Rescue law, and she failed to act in good faith and negligently let it happen.
post 1573471231 02-12-2019, 10:28 AM
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[QUOTE=bartosh post_id=1573469381]Nope.

"Manson's followers committed a series of nine murders at four locations in July and August 1969. In 1971, he was convicted of first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder for the deaths of seven people,[b]all of which members of the group carried out at his instruction[/b]."


I bolded the important part in case you have trouble seeing and doing a simple google search.[/QUOTE]

Are you fuking retarded? I know very well the charles Manson story. You claimed he was convicted of manslaughter, which I corrected you and told you it was 1st degree.

Which is the first God damn sentence of your next post correcting me.



Anyway, apples n oranges.



[QUOTE=bartosh post_id=1573468241]ITT: people defending her that are ignoring the entire reason she was sentenced.[b]She also withheld information pre/post the event to family/law enforcement which could have potentially[likely] saved him.[/b]Combine that with those texts, and the right decision was easily made.


Tell me, do you think Charles Manson shouldn't have gone to prison for[b]manslaughter? [Spoiler alert: that's what he went to jail for].[/b]He was never convicted of directly killing anybody, just[b]manipulating [/b]people into killing others.[/QUOTE]
Bolded it 4 you in case you're too ****ing stupid to read your own posts.
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post 1573471681 02-12-2019, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted By Muzzlrpress⏩
That is a stupid comparison.

1. Scenario in OP: Girl plots to have bf kill himself, overcomes all of his objections and actively uses his feeling for her into killing himself. Goes so far as to tell him how to do it, and is unrelenting in trying to get him to do it.

2. Scenario you just mentioned: Booty call is horny and thinks you can handle your alcohol. You can't, so you crash and die.


I can't believe that you actually are comparing these two things.
2nd scenario would be more fitting if booty call had him over, force fed him alcohol and then told him to drive home, even more so if she was sober.. it would be extra fitting if he was trying to work out a solution out loud to her but she was very intent on him driving drunk. Him- maybe I should get an Uber her- no you should drive, here’s your keys just go put them in the ignition and go- drive super fast so you get there quicker
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Johnvee73
post 1573471811 02-12-2019, 10:35 AM
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  1. sandaltan
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Originally Posted By HayZues
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbc...amp/ncna970111


Cliffs:

- bitch is crazy.
-in/out of psychiatric hospital
-On phone with bf as he inhales carbon monoxide from his truck.
- told him to get back in truck when he got out
- convicted of manslaughter


Sure she is a horrible kunt of a human being, but just lmao @ personal responsibility being dead and gone.

Brb convicted for another persons SUICIDE.
negligent homicide convictions (like this one) are very rare. this lady is nuts.
post 1573471891 02-12-2019, 10:37 AM
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#90
  1. HayZues Christi
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Originally Posted By Muzzlrpress⏩
That is a stupid comparison.

1. Scenario in OP: Girl plots to have bf kill himself, overcomes all of his objections and actively uses his feeling for her into killing himself. Goes so far as to tell him how to do it, and is unrelenting in trying to get him to do it.

2. Scenario you just mentioned: Booty call is horny and thinks you can handle your alcohol. You can't, so you crash and die.


I can't believe that you actually are comparing these two things.
Literally more comparable than your corollary to manson.
Ol' 71st street. The devil that birthed me.

606 G0D.
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