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Forum » So you want to buy an AR, Corona Virus Edition
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Thread: So you want to buy an AR, Corona Virus Edition

post 1600541701 03-23-2020, 01:27 PM
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#361
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Originally Posted By Ikeman83⏩
Just spent some time looking for deals, right now this the best one I've got:https://grabagun.com/ruger-ar-556-mp...k-18-30rd.html


16" ARs with something resembling the features of the OP have basically evaporated. If you're looking for a 16" AR, you're better off going for a premium one because the pricing on those hasn't shifted yet. Most of those are around $1400-1800.
Seems this is OOS now.
MFC

drum, it holds fifty, uh
post 1600541961 03-23-2020, 01:29 PM
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#362
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Went to the indoor range to zero the new midlength builds yesterday morning. Used a bunch of extra parts I had around along with some new for the builds.Outdoor range is closed while they figure out how to implement state policies.

Carbines ran fine and I was surprised how close to zero I had them after boresighting from the kitchen counter to the back fence.

On my way out there were two Republican candidates with petitions to add themselves to the ballot. They had single use pens and hand sanitizer. Thought that was funny.

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post 1600544881 03-23-2020, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted By jqnmartinez⏩
Op saw your 9mm rifle in another thread... not seeing any deals out there for those? Had a chance to grab a Roni months ago at a great deal...regret not getting it now!
9mm ARs hardly ever have good deals like the 5.56s. I built a AR9 recently and kinda wish I had done either a big bore (like .450 bushmaster) or long range (like 6.5 Grendel) instead. The only advantage 9mm has over 5.56 is cheaper ammo or the fact you can build them extremely short without losing a lot of velocity. My long ass gorilla arms make any AR under 9 inches kinda uncomfortable so the only advantage they have is lost on me

I can't remember exactly who it was (Ike I think) tried to explain this to me in the MFC thread but I thought that the availability and price of the 9mm ammo was enough of reason to go ahead with the AR9. Unless you really just don't want to own another different caliber I'd go for something else
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post 1600545091 03-23-2020, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted By TBO1313⏩
9mm ARs hardly ever have good deals like the 5.56s. I built a AR9 recently and kinda wish I had done either a big bore (like .450 bushmaster) or long range (like 6.5 Grendel) instead. The only advantage 9mm has over 5.56 is cheaper ammo or the fact you can build them extremely short without losing a lot of velocity. My long ass gorilla arms make any AR under 9 inches kinda uncomfortable so the only advantage they have is lost on me
Numbers exercise: Take the full cost of a 9mm AR, rifle mags everything, take the last 3.5 years purchase price of 5.56/9 when everybody here bought everything during the time to buy, figure out how many rounds of 9mm you'd have to shoot for the difference in ammo cost to pay for the 9mm AR setup...bearing in mind that we recently had the opportunity to buy steel case .223 at about 17 cents per round

That ^ is the main reason there is so little overall interest in 9mm ARs and why they don't really go on sale or have the market competition of the 5.56 rifles. Most people look at them and can't get past asking themselves, y tho?
post 1600547221 03-23-2020, 02:36 PM
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#365
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Originally Posted By jqnmartinez⏩
Op saw your 9mm rifle in another thread... not seeing any deals out there for those? Had a chance to grab a Roni months ago at a great deal...regret not getting it now!
Honestly, there's nothing cheap out there for 9mm ARs if you want it to run well. The lower will be more expensive by about $100 and you really want to use a JP SCS so you're looking at a $150-200 buffer/spring system instead of a $50.

You can go cheaper but to get it to shoot like an AR that's what you're looking at.
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post 1600547601 03-23-2020, 02:41 PM
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#366
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Originally Posted By Farley1324⏩
Numbers exercise: Take the full cost of a 9mm AR, rifle mags everything, take the last 3.5 years purchase price of 5.56/9 when everybody here bought everything during the time to buy, figure out how many rounds of 9mm you'd have to shoot for the difference in ammo cost to pay for the 9mm AR setup...bearing in mind that we recently had the opportunity to buy steel case .223 at about 17 cents per round

That ^ is the main reason there is so little overall interest in 9mm ARs and why they don't really go on sale or have the market competition of the 5.56 rifles. Most people look at them and can't get past asking themselves, y tho?
I built mine because:

1. My indoor range is open 24 hours a day with keycard access and my outdoor range has severely limited hours during the winter which makes it hard to shoot except on Saturday. My Indoor range only allows pistol calibers.
2. I wanted to shoot PCC division for competition.
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post 1600548641 03-23-2020, 02:54 PM
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#367
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Originally Posted By Ikeman83⏩
I built mine because:

1. My indoor range is open 24 hours a day with keycard access and my outdoor range has severely limited hours during the winter which makes it hard to shoot except on Saturday. My Indoor range only allows pistol calibers.
2. I wanted to shoot PCC division for competition.
Do you run a dedicated lower, mag block or endomags?

I went with endomags but a couple of times I've had trouble getting the first round of the mag to load correctly. After the first round they run perfect but its still annoying
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post 1600550301 03-23-2020, 03:13 PM
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#368
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Originally Posted By TBO1313⏩
Do you run a dedicated lower, mag block or endomags?

I went with endomags but a couple of times I've had trouble getting the first round of the mag to load correctly. After the first round they run perfect but its still annoying
I went with a mag block, but I'm going to sell it and put all my stuff into a dedicated QC 10 lower.
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post 1600550561 03-23-2020, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted By Ikeman83⏩
I went with a mag block, but I'm going to sell it and put all my stuff into a dedicated QC 10 lower.
What type of block? Colt or Glock mags? Are you having problems with it?
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post 1600550911 03-23-2020, 03:21 PM
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#370
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Originally Posted By TBO1313⏩
What type of block? Colt or Glock mags? Are you having problems with it?
Colt, from KAK Industries. It runs great, cycling is without issue every time, has LRBHO and a normal mag release. Problem is that if you're trying to insert a mag on a closed bolt you have to make sure that it's inserted properly and it doesn't just want to go. There's a small amount of wiggle which isn't an issue when firing but can be irritating when loading.

For a mag block rifle I should just be happy but since I'm this far into it I'm just going to get the dedicated lower and then sell the block.
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post 1600557731 03-23-2020, 04:51 PM
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#371
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Originally Posted By Podunks⏩
For me, home defense.

I have 3 houses within 5-20 yrds of me. If I unload a mag of 5.56, during a home defense situation, the rounds that don't connect are almost certainly leaving my house and potentially entering my neighbor's houses. 9mm jhp however is nowhere near as likely to make it past my walls, and with 33rnd mags at my disposal, I have no worry that I won't be able to defend my family against an intruder. It's also quieter, so less potential hearing dmg for myself and my family.

Check out the Extar EP9. $420 9mm AR that uses glock mags.
I thought that the data shows the 5.56 fractures into small fragments.
post 1600557851 03-23-2020, 04:53 PM
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#372
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Originally Posted By Podunks⏩
For me, home defense.

I have 3 houses within 5-20 yrds of me. If I unload a mag of 5.56, during a home defense situation, the rounds that don't connect are almost certainly leaving my house and potentially entering my neighbor's houses. 9mm jhp however is nowhere near as likely to make it past my walls, and with 33rnd mags at my disposal, I have no worry that I won't be able to defend my family against an intruder. It's also quieter, so less potential hearing dmg for myself and my family.






Check out the Extar EP9. $420 9mm AR that uses glock mags.
You should check out home defense ammo for your 5.56, too.

As someone who is essentially deaf in the left ear from shooting/concerts, I can't recommend enough storing a pair of electronic hearing protection with your firearm. You may not be able to deploy it, who knows, but just in case... the extra few seconds of putting them on could save you from being permanently disfigured (functionally).

With discretion of course.
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post 1600558881 03-23-2020, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted By Podunks⏩
For me, home defense.

I have 3 houses within 5-20 yrds of me. If I unload a mag of 5.56, during a home defense situation, the rounds that don't connect are almost certainly leaving my house and potentially entering my neighbor's houses. The 9mm will 9mm jhp however is nowhere near as likely to make it past my walls, and with 33rnd mags at my disposal, I have no worry that I won't be able to defend my family against an intruder. It's also quieter, so less potential hearing dmg for myself and my family.
The 9mm JHP out of a carbine will also probably go into your neighbor's house, in that event.

There is not a substantial difference in risk of penetration through intermediate barriers, and danger on the other side, comparing 5.56 to pistols

Also, in all private citizen defensive gun uses, bullets hitting an innocent bystander isextremelyrare, in public or home.

There is, however, a substantial difference in the capacity of 5.56 to immediate incapacitate an attacker as compared to pistol
post 1600559191 03-23-2020, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted By Podunks⏩
For me, home defense.

I have 3 houses within 5-20 yrds of me. If I unload a mag of 5.56, during a home defense situation, the rounds that don't connect are almost certainly leaving my house and potentially entering my neighbor's houses. 9mm jhp however is nowhere near as likely to make it past my walls, and with 33rnd mags at my disposal, I have no worry that I won't be able to defend my family against an intruder. It's also quieter, so less potential hearing dmg for myself and my family.
Surprisingly, .223/5.56 actually penetrates less. Check outhttp://preparedgunowners.com/2016/07...ation-testing/

9mm PCC will, as you said, be quieter. Lots of people keep hearing protection nearby to their AR-15 (me included)
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MFC
post 1600559511 03-23-2020, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted By Ikeman83⏩
I'm guessing you're in Canada or something? Where is a Chinese shotgun more available than a Maverick 88?
Nah in the NE US...I meant I just wanted mine now vs waiting to order and wait to have it shipped. Had a non essential business shutdown in my state last week so I guess it wasn't all for naught.
#
post 1600559611 03-23-2020, 05:14 PM
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#376
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RE: 5.56 home defense

https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...xperts-opinion
post 1600560021 03-23-2020, 05:20 PM
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#377
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Originally Posted By Podunks⏩
For me, home defense.

I have 3 houses within 5-20 yrds of me. If I unload a mag of 5.56, during a home defense situation, the rounds that don't connect are almost certainly leaving my house and potentially entering my neighbor's houses. 9mm jhp however is nowhere near as likely to make it past my walls, and with 33rnd mags at my disposal, I have no worry that I won't be able to defend my family against an intruder. It's also quieter, so less potential hearing dmg for myself and my family.






Check out the Extar EP9. $420 9mm AR that uses glock mags.
I'll tell you that 5.56 dumps energy really rapidly once it encounters a solid object. 9mm tends to keep going because of its shape. 9mm is going to keep going right through most exterior walls like a hot knife through butter.

I'm sure that unit shoots well, but there's more to it than just shooting well. Getting a blowback AR9 to feel like a DI AR15 requires either a hydraulic buffer, captured buffer, or a roller delayed system.

You can shoot one pretty fast (I definitely did) with a standard spring but it doesn't feel "right". Your Bolt has a bunch of mass on it so as it comes forward it slams into the barrel and drives the muzzle down. So your recoil impulse is hard from the Bolt coming back and then you have this big mass coming forward again pushing the muzzle down. It's odd. JP Enterprises SCS fixes that.



Was running it with 147 gr JHPs on Sunday and it's weird how quiet a 9mm with a 14.5" barrel and a brake is.
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post 1600560601 03-23-2020, 05:27 PM
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#378
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Originally Posted By Farley1324⏩
The 9mm JHP out of a carbine will also probably go into your neighbor's house, in that event.

There is not a substantial difference in risk of penetration through intermediate barriers, and danger on the other side, comparing 5.56 to pistols

Also, in all private citizen defensive gun uses, bullets hitting an innocent bystander isextremelyrare, in public or home.

There is, however, a substantial difference in the capacity of 5.56 to immediate incapacitate an attacker as compared to pistol
Strong this. A 9mm with a 14.5" barrel gains a few hundred FPS compared to a 5" handgun. The only advantage is the control you get from shooting a rifle compared to a handgun.
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post 1600570401 03-23-2020, 07:30 PM
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#379
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Originally Posted By Podunks⏩
Idk about fracturing, but they will tumble.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPecpj465To

- 9mm HP penned 9 layers
- 9mm frangible penned 9 layers
- 556 FMJ penned 12+ layers, including sheet of plywood, and kept going (was tumbling by layer 7)
- 556 frangible penned 12+ layers



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6GNcPbU6c0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pttHaNErlOY

9mm HP penetrated 14 layers
556 penned 22 layers



Obviously you want to do your best to always know what's on the other side of your target, but in a life or death situation, that might not always be feasible.





Agreed, I have a pair of electronic muffs right next to my bed piece, and waiting on my stamp to clear, but I'm also not the only person in the house.





I'm sure it's going to feel different to someone who's extremely familiar with shooting an AR15, but it's not going to feel off to the vast majority of shooters. That said, the Extar gets awesome reviews across the board. It also has a delayed recoil system. Other benefits: last round bolt hold open, is inexpensive, runs glock mags, and has a side charging handle.

Part of that too is that the 9mm is effectively a ball, while the 556 is a cone. Is the 5.56 going through more layers? Sure, but the layers are all stacked on top of each other. give it 10 feet to break apart in and it's a different story. Meanwhile the 9mm keeps going.


Either way, both of these will not give 1 **** about drywall interior walls, plywood/aluminum siding. Both of them shot out of a carbine give you a much better chance of being on target.
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post 1600570871 03-23-2020, 07:34 PM
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#380
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idk man, someone breaks in trying to rob and kill your family i think the last thing youll be worried about is hitting your neighbors through a few walls
post 1600573191 03-23-2020, 07:57 PM
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living> being tried in court
post 1600575051 03-23-2020, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted By Podunks⏩
If you are not considering the civil liability that follows the lawful discharge of your firearm, you are doing it wrong imo. I take it into consideration now, so that I minimize the chances if and when. "There's a lawyer attached to every bullet"

A good watch for everyone in here imo, even though they are mainly discussing concealed carry, it's still applicable:

Start at the 2min mark

Correct ^

There is no good reason not to prepare for the legal battle ahead of time.

That video makes some good points, ones I hadn't even considered before watching it (some months ago) even though I'd already looked into it and read up on it and joined up with one of those outfits. The 'hard target for prosecution' angle makes perfect sense
post 1600577311 03-23-2020, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted By Ikeman83⏩
Part of that too is that the 9mm is effectively a ball, while the 556 is a cone. Is the 5.56 going through more layers? Sure, but the layers are all stacked on top of each other. give it 10 feet to break apart in and it's a different story. Meanwhile the 9mm keeps going.


Either way, both of these will not give 1 **** about drywall interior walls, plywood/aluminum siding. Both of them shot out of a carbine give you a much better chance of being on target.
I can manage my own house. However, I am just hoping that the drywall and aluminum + yard and his drywall and aluminum are enough to not kill anyone.
post 1600615711 03-24-2020, 09:04 AM
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Sorry for spoon feed request but can anyone point me in direction of best ar15 available to use out the box? Reliability is biggest factor I'm looking for.

If it makes difference on suggestion, use is for home defense only. Budget around $1k. Thanks
post 1600616331 03-24-2020, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted By PuristBrah⏩
Sorry for spoon feed request but can anyone point me in direction of best ar15 available to use out the box? Reliability is biggest factor I'm looking for.

If it makes difference on suggestion, use is for home defense only. Budget around $1k. Thanks
https://www.atlantictactical.com/col...-56-cal-rifle/
300 Forever
post 1600617461 03-24-2020, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted By iabs⏩
https://www.atlantictactical.com/col...-56-cal-rifle/
"Public Safety / LEO ID Required"

https://grabagun.com/firearms/rifles...le-sights.html

Desperate times call for desperate measures, wouldn't normally support springfield because **** em
post 1600617481 03-24-2020, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted By iabs⏩
https://www.atlantictactical.com/col...-56-cal-rifle/
Thanks.

I'm not in public safety which they require unfortunately. All other places without restrictions are sold out of them

I picked a wrong time to purchase one lol
post 1600617561 03-24-2020, 09:25 AM
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#388
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Originally Posted By PuristBrah⏩
Thanks.

I'm not in public safety which they require unfortunately. All other places without restrictions are sold out of them

I picked a wrong time to purchase one lol
Panic buying after **** gets real is usually not the right time

But it's better than never trying
post 1600617711 03-24-2020, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted By Farley1324⏩
Panic buying after **** gets real is usually not the right time
For sure, family isn't putting up fuss about getting one and is actually encouraging it due to current circumstances so trying to make most of opportunity haha
post 1600618061 03-24-2020, 09:33 AM
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  2. Golden boy
  1. MoeBettuh
  2. Golden boy
  3. Join Date: Aug 2012
  4. Location: United States
  5. Posts: 17,468
  6. Rep Power: 142304
This doesn't have the bravo stock and has a single stage (prob just milspec) trigger, but is an affordable available alternative.


https://palmettostatearmory.com/ruge...lack-8529.html
MFC

drum, it holds fifty, uh
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