lmao i dont give a fuk what drove someone to be a criminal. does not matter. does not factor in. does not excuse anything. fk em.

If we don't identify and address the influence and motivations, then it will just continue.

Noone here has said it excuses anything.

Trying to understand why something does something =/= excusing their behaviour.

You are making the assumption that it is something that can be stopped or cured. What if it is akin to the varied behaviors we see in other living animals that lead to selective traits. You will never stop new variance, you can only select for what you want and prune what you don't. I am not sure how this works with morality and or eugenics. Even if it was unfairly caused how do you deal with the damaged done? Is it on that person, or do we treat them like a wounded bird their whole life? With women it seems safe to err on the side of tolerance, but men are more dangerous.

Of course it matters.... it doesn't mean it absolves blame, but if we don't try to understand the processes that lead to antisocial behaviour/criminals, how can we ever improve society? There have been a huge amount of studies on why children become anti social for exactly this reasonYou've given out too much reputation todayNo he's not, he's implying some cases can be helped, not all.

There's an overwhelming amount of studies on this, there's certain interventions that can be made to a lot of people that will lower the chances of anti social behavior. Obviously not for everyone.

Just because we can't make society perfect doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make it better.

For example; it's well documented that not having a father figure is disastrous for a huge percentage of children and leads to a higher than normal outcome of antisocial behaviors. Now we have this information, we shouldn't try to do anything with it? An overwhelming percentage of people who partake in higher than average amounts of antisocial behavior in adulthood have issues rooted in childhood, so nobodies implying we should help them like a wounded bird their whole life, but if we can identify interventions during childhood that will massively lower anti social behavior in society, it seems like a good idea to do something about it, no?

That's very interesting. I wasn't aware of this research, I'll have to look deeper into it for sure. I completely agree that it is much more difficult for some to overcome obstacles in their life than it is for others. That being the case, we should be doing everything we can to promote healthy behavior and healthy mental states rather than glorifying violence and drug sales/use.

As for your last sentence I can certainly see how that would be a much more difficult situation but I don't really think it applies to this scenario. However, I should have specified that all of these scenarios would be occurring in the US. If I'm not mistaken, actual African Americans (those who have immigrated her from Africa) are among the highest classes of wealth. However I could be mistaken so feel free to correct.

There is research showing successful intervention (by successful, it means more people were helped than not), based on personal, group therapy, and formal education programs.

Like these...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15820996/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15820997/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22327209/

(There's a lot of work into the causes of recidivism, which you can look into, if you are interested. I'm guessing you haven't, to be blunt.)

So, I'm not basing what I wrote on an assumption, I'm basing it on research.

I have a violent conviction and even got away with an assault due to the friend of the person I provoked into fighting me stealing something whilst I was fighting (so I was able to explain it as mugging that I was defending myself against, when in reality I intentionally wanted to get into a fight), and I turned myself around.

My best friend is a former gang member. He turned himself around.People turning from violent criminality to being remorseful and benign citizens does happen.

Have you never come across people who have turned their lives around?

Have you never read any research into successful intervention?

If not, I highly recommend the works and interviews of James Gillian.

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...se_of_Violence

I agree.

I have repeatedly said on the misc that rap/hip hop culture is poison for the black community, around the world.

IME black and non-black people tend to internalized the images and message of that culture/music, as the 'true nature' of black people, and anyone who doesn't conform to those standards 'isn't really black'.

The past year I've realize just how insane it is that the majority of rap music is black men talking about murdering specifically other black men, lavish spending, dealing drugs, taking drugs, and being promiscuous. The insanity is that people of all races will happily rap and dance along to songs literally about the murder of black men. C Dolores Tucker was right.

The exact opposite values are needed to heal the broken communities in low income black neighbourhoods; the important of the family unit, healthy communication/conflict resolution, saving and investing money, healthy living, sexual prudence, etc.


A culture that idolizes or is non-chalant about violent career criminality, would look exactly like exactly what we see in Chicago.

What you might find interesting is that a white pastor spoke to record executives and said that they explictly wouldn't play records where someone talks about violence against women or animals, but if black person talks about murdering another black person, they are fine with it. He also spoke about rapper Rick Ross, who literally makes entire records about murdering black men and dealing drugs, but when he said literally 2 lines about raping a woman there were protests and his sponsorship deal got dropped. Casual murder of black men by black men OK... But rapping about raping a woman is 'outrageous' to rap about.

I don't want to hear songs bragging about raping, and I don't want to hear songs bragging about murdering.

The talk from the Pastor...



Unfortunately some black people seemingly believe that rap music = black identity, and I have honestly been insulted or assumed to be white, because I've written on the misc about that specific form of music. (I have said nothing against neo-soul, RNB, motown, reggae, etc). Rap, Drill, Dancehall music are the only form of musics which routinely talk about violence.I thought you were specifically talking about the US.

I was writing for anyone who has the 'those people in developing countries, should just pull themselves up by their bootstraps' mentality. Completely ignoring the severe systematic problems in developing countries.

What sucks is that it's almost like you have to be afraid to say that rap is a negative influence because of how quickly you'll be dismissed as "old" or "out of touch" by those who promote/enjoy it. It's much the same as people who believe in some of the more rational/fact based "conspiracy theories" have to hide their belief in them for fear of being labeled a CT nutjob and quickly dismissed.

That pastor's talk was absolutely excellent btw, thank you for sharing that video. I'll be sharing that. Another thing I'd like to bring to light is the brief thought I had when the video first started of "man this would probably be more impactful if the pastor were black." I hate that a thought like that comes to mind and that a lot of people would actually agree with that. That even though everything this man is saying is true, and that he has been immersed in the black community for quite a number of years, somehow what he's saying would be less impactful just because he isn't black.

Oh and I love 90's and early 2000's RnB

My father is the perfect example of that. He went from being a drug addicted, rage filled fuk up to raising a family and eventually owning multiple homes/vehicles and lives a comfortable life while helping tons of others along the way.

Because there's a systemic oppression that created guy 3, and it's statistically higher. Leading one to conclude it's a larger issue than the more isolated case of guy 1.

And to be clear, all 3 of these people would be condemned IRL

Systemic oppression or systemic racism? Is there a difference between the two? If not, hasn't there been a failure to produce any valid example or data confirming that there is indeed systemic racism? As I stated earlier in the thread, I don't deny that blacks have certainly been the victims of unfair policies in the past.

That is probably true for a number of black people, the message would be more impactful if coming from another black person. However, I first came across that video in a compilation video made by a black man about the harmful affect of rap music.

Here is a black dude talking about the harmful effect of rap music. (He made a documentary about the NWA the impact they had on changing the face of rap music.)

From 2:35..



He used to do a lot of videos about masculinity and personal development, specifically aimed at black men.

Most of his videos these days are about Umar Johnson... A dude who was really popular 'pro-black' leader, who literally called for genocide of 10% of black boys. I think that royally pissed of Lenon, so he spends a lot of his timing criticizing and ridiculing Umar.I miss that vibe...




Though there are some modern artists still making great music...