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Forum » Neurologic Manifestations of Long COVID
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Thread: Neurologic Manifestations of Long COVID

post 1686611473 07-16-2023, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted By TheMossad⏩
So we should just believe miscers and uneducated rabble over actual scientists and doctors?
Trust the experts........the same experts that would recommend smoking cigarettes in the 30s and 40s, the same experts that would never wash their hands, the same experts that prescribe medication for everything......
post 1686611603 07-16-2023, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted By TheMossad⏩
So we should just believe miscers and uneducated rabble over actual scientists and doctors?
Funny how the narrative has evolved from:

- the injections will make it almost impossible to get infected and spread the virus

- you can still get infected but your symptoms will be drastically reduced and you won’t spread it

- your symptoms will be drastically reduced and you can still spread it, but are less likely to do so

- your symptoms will be somewhat reduced and you will be as likely to spread it as someone who didn’t receive the injection, if not more so

- you’ll need a booster to maintain protection from severe symptoms, and it’s still better than natural immunity

- the effectiveness of the boosters wanes even faster than the original shot and they are less effective. They also provide worse protection than natural immunity…however they still do a good job of protecting against “long Covid”

- the shots don’t protect against “long Covid”








Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
What causes the brain damage after covid infection when someone isn't vaccinated?

You suggested it's vaccines, not covid.
Source??
post 1686611623 07-16-2023, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
Trust the experts........the same experts that would recommend smoking cigarettes in the 30s and 40s, the same experts that would never wash their hands, the same experts that prescribe medication for everything......
So if you needed brain surgery, you'd trust a random guy on the street to do it?

I think you have a tumor Dave. Let me fix it for you.
post 1686611803 07-16-2023, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted By TheMossad⏩
So if you needed brain surgery, you'd trust a random guy on the street to do it?

I think you have a tumor Dave. Let me fix it for you.
Hmmmmmm.......speaking of, why did the "experts" give JFK's sister a lobotomy, for her seizures and mood swings? Trust the experts, trust the science......
post 1686611963 07-16-2023, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
Hmmmmmm.......speaking of, why did the "experts" give JFK's sister a lobotomy, for her seizures and mood swings? Trust the experts, trust the science......
So you're against brain surgery? So you want kids with brain cancer to die?
post 1686611973 07-16-2023, 09:39 AM
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#306
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I think "Long Covid" would be a great name for a male porn star! Who's with me?
It's a hot night. The mind races. You think about your knife: the only friend who hasn't betrayed you, the only friend who won't be dead by sunup. Sleep tight mates, in your quilted chambray night shirts.
post 1686612153 07-16-2023, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted By Bushmaster⏩
I think "Long Covid" would be a great name for a male porn star! Who's with me?
So you think about male porn stars a lot?
post 1686612703 07-16-2023, 09:57 AM
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#308
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Originally Posted By Bushmaster⏩
I think "Long Covid" would be a great name for a male porn star! Who's with me?
Come on, just the tip? It's okay, it's only smellz.
post 1686614763 07-16-2023, 10:50 AM
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#309
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Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
Source??
Your criticism of the first paper.

Do you have suggestions for an unsupervised approach to the predictive part of the paper showing brain damage in unvaccinated prior who were infected with covid?
post 1686615293 07-16-2023, 11:00 AM
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#310
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Your criticism of the first paper.

Do you have suggestions for an unsupervised approach to the predictive part of the paper showing brain damage in unvaccinated prior who were infected with covid?
Had it twice, am I okay? Should I schedule to go to a neurologist? Which would probably take like 3 months.

Imagine all of those poor souls with brain damage, and they live in Socialist countries. They might not be able to see one for over a year.
post 1686615373 07-16-2023, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
Had it twice, am I okay? Should I schedule to go to a neurologist? Which would probably take like 3 months.

Imagine all of those poor souls with brain damage, and they live in Socialist countries. They might not be able to see one for over a year.
You don't think this happens in US patients?
post 1686615743 07-16-2023, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Your criticism of the first paper.
Ok good, if it’s in this very thread it should be easy for you to find and quote the post I made which “ suggested it's vaccines, not covid”. Or perhaps you could at least provide a post number.

Do you have suggestions for an unsupervised approach to the predictive part of the paper showing brain damage in unvaccinated prior who were infected with covid?
I’m not going to waste my time coming up with a script to calculate those things. My point is that there are plenty of people involved with that “study” who have tons of conflicting interests with regards to who is paying them. Couple that with the fact that it uses an algorithm to assess the data it is provided and it’s quite possible there are inaccuracies involved. Tons of models end up being wrong…and having people involved with a study who have multiple financial ties to entities who have an interest in the conclusion makes it MORE likely to be inaccurate.
post 1686615843 07-16-2023, 11:11 AM
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#313
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Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
I’m not going to waste my time coming up with a script to calculate those things. My point is that there are plenty of people involved with that “study” who have tons of conflicting interests with regards to who is paying them. Couple that with the fact that it uses an algorithm to assess the data it is provided and it’s quite possible there are inaccuracies involved. Tons of models end up being wrong…and having people involved with a study who have multiple financial ties to entities who have an interest in the conclusion makes it MORE likely to be inaccurate.
I don't think a script will do it.

But I also don't think the techniques used in this study were exotic or novel. Pretty standard rly.

That was only part of the study anyway, evaluating predictive ability that held up with sensitivity analyses.
post 1686616523 07-16-2023, 11:25 AM
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from sklearn.linear_model import LogisticRegressionCV
from sklearn.model_selection import cross_validate, cross_val_predict, StratifiedKFold
from sklearn.preprocessing import StandardScaler
from sklearn.pipeline import Pipeline
import pingouin as pg

Nothing exotic, custom, or fancy - linear and logistic regression functions from a standard library.
post 1686616943 07-16-2023, 11:33 AM
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#315
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
from sklearn.linear_model import LogisticRegressionCV
from sklearn.model_selection import cross_validate, cross_val_predict, StratifiedKFold
from sklearn.preprocessing import StandardScaler
from sklearn.pipeline import Pipeline
import pingouin as pg

Nothing exotic, custom, or fancy - linear and logistic regression functions from a standard library.
Well before we move on to that perhaps you can answer my other question…or were you lying about what I claimed?
post 1686617443 07-16-2023, 11:41 AM
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#316
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
You don't think this happens in US patients?
It takes awhile to schedule one in the US, even longer in Socialist countries, hundreds of millions of people with brain damage from Covid and they don't even know it.
post 1686617583 07-16-2023, 11:44 AM
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#317
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
It takes awhile to schedule one in the US, even longer in Socialist countries, hundreds of millions of people with brain damage from Covid and they don't even know it.
I dunno about the number, but probably.
post 1686617943 07-16-2023, 11:49 AM
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#318
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Antivaxxers and covid deniers should kill themselves.
post 1686617993 07-16-2023, 11:49 AM
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#319
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
I dunno about the number, but probably.
What's sad is that you actually believe this......
post 1686618013 07-16-2023, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
Without knowing how they “supervised” their machine learning model and how they programmed the analysis tools it’s impossible to know what exactly they are determining in that study, regardless of how many fancy words they throw around.

“ We examined the predictive capacity of derived imaging markers employing a supervised machine learning approach (Fig. 5).”



We also don’t know what their python code looks like:

“All statistical analyses were conducted in Python 3.9.1”

However, when seeing what types of competing interests there are it can provide insight into what they may have “steered” their program towards concluding
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
That's how MRI analysis works and the tools are cited.

Supervised machine learning uses labeled (ground truth) data to train the model.

If you want to review their code, it's here:
https://github.com/csi-hamburg/2022_...covid_imaging/
Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
Were these the people “supervising” the machine learning to train the model??
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
No.

They provide all of the code and data.
Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
Who supervised the training of the machine learning?
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Regression is supervised machine learning.
Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
Who created and/or selected the algorithm?
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
I don't think a script will do it.

But I also don't think the techniques used in this study were exotic or novel. Pretty standard rly.

That was only part of the study anyway, evaluating predictive ability that held up with sensitivity analyses.
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
from sklearn.linear_model import LogisticRegressionCV
from sklearn.model_selection import cross_validate, cross_val_predict, StratifiedKFold
from sklearn.preprocessing import StandardScaler
from sklearn.pipeline import Pipeline
import pingouin as pg

Nothing exotic, custom, or fancy - linear and logistic regression functions from a standard library.
Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
Thanks.
Now that you realize how easy it is to admit a mistake and/or be honest perhaps it’ll be more common in the r/p
Perhaps.
post 1686618243 07-16-2023, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
What's sad is that you actually believe this......
It may affect how people's brain's age. We've seen the correlations between the structural changes/damage and cognitive task performance. Brain's a pretty plastic, so maybe these things will resolve over time, or maybe they will manifest cognitively later on.
post 1686618353 07-16-2023, 11:54 AM
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#322
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
What's sad is that you actually believe this......
What's sad is you haven't killed yourself yet.
post 1686618393 07-16-2023, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted By TheMossad⏩
What's sad is you haven't killed yourself yet.
Damn Wincel, what happened? Did your dick reject your hand this morning?
post 1686618483 07-16-2023, 11:57 AM
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#324
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Perhaps.
And yet you still haven’t answered the question “who created the algorithms?”





Also,

Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
What causes the brain damage after covid infection when someone isn't vaccinated?

You suggested it's vaccines, not covid.
Source??
post 1686618873 07-16-2023, 12:05 PM
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#325
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Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
And yet you still haven’t answered the question “who created the algorithms??
https://scikit-learn.org/stable/
post 1686619703 07-16-2023, 12:21 PM
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History
This project was started in 2007 as a Google Summer of Code project by David Cournapeau. Later that year, Matthieu Brucher started work on this project as part of his thesis.

In 2010 Fabian Pedregosa, Gael Varoquaux, Alexandre Gramfort and Vincent Michel of INRIA took leadership of the project and made the first public release, February the 1st 2010. Since then, several releases have appeared following a ~ 3-month cycle, and a thriving international community has been leading the development.

Scikit-Learn is a community driven project, however institutional and private grants help to assure its sustainability.

The contributors, developers, and funders are listed on the same page as this info

https://scikit-learn.org/stable/about.html

Source code is available here

https://github.com/scikit-learn/scikit-learn
post 1686619753 07-16-2023, 12:22 PM
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#327
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
History
This project was started in 2007 as a Google Summer of Code project by David Cournapeau. Later that year, Matthieu Brucher started work on this project as part of his thesis.

In 2010 Fabian Pedregosa, Gael Varoquaux, Alexandre Gramfort and Vincent Michel of INRIA took leadership of the project and made the first public release, February the 1st 2010. Since then, several releases have appeared following a ~ 3-month cycle, and a thriving international community has been leading the development.

Scikit-Learn is a community driven project, however institutional and private grants help to assure its sustainability.

The contributors, developers, and funders are listed on the same page as this info

https://scikit-learn.org/stable/about.html

Source code is available here

https://github.com/scikit-learn/scikit-learn
Thanks, we’ll move on to that aspect once you address this.

Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
What causes the brain damage after covid infection when someone isn't vaccinated?

You suggested it's vaccines, not covid.
Source??



Not really interested in continuing discussion with someone who lies about what I said and doesn’t acknowledge it
post 1686620253 07-16-2023, 12:34 PM
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#328
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Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
Thanks, we’ll move on to that aspect once you address this.





Source??



Not really interested in continuing discussion with someone who lies about what I said and doesn’t acknowledge it
I see.

At least we agree that using a standard open source regression function doesn't invalidate a study.

You suggested the initial study was invalid because everyone was vaccinated so there's no way to determine if the signs and symptoms were from infection or vaccination.
Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
So out of those subjects how do we determine what was caused by “long Covid” and which are side effects from the injection?
Nobody was vaccinated in this MRI study, so we can rule out vaccines as a cause.
post 1686620693 07-16-2023, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
I see.

At least we agree that using a standard open source regression function doesn't invalidate a study.

You suggested the initial study was invalid because everyone was vaccinated so there's no way to determine if the signs and symptoms were from infection or vaccination.



Nobody was vaccinated in this MRI study, so we can rule out vaccines as a cause.
So instead of acknowledging your first lie, you decide to double down and add another lie to the mix. Honestly, not surprised coming from you. I guess I’ll just continue the discussion with others until you provide sources for your claims or admit you were lying.
post 1686620773 07-16-2023, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
So instead of acknowledging your first lie, you decide to double down and add another lie to the mix. Honestly, not surprised coming from you. I guess I’ll just continue the discussion with others until you provide sources for your claims or admit you were lying.
Reasonable.

At least regression is okay. I think that's progress.
Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
Also, the study does not differentiate between people who received the Covid injection and those who didn’t. In the hospitalized group, 33% of participants had received the injection and almost half in the non-hospitalized group(45%) had received the injection. All but 1 had received the injection after getting infected. So out of those subjects how do we determine what was caused by “long Covid” and which are side effects from the injection?
I was incorrect. You didn't say it's invalid because everyone was vaccinated. Rather, that it's invalid because some people were vaccinated and they didn't differentiate.

But, the MRI study participants were all unvaccinated.
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