You’re basing this on what?

Being too weak willed to miss a meal..

How about you simply clean up your diet, instead of going without food for 12 hrs???

No ****ing way I'm skipping breakfast.

Half the amount of rice, half the amount of black beans, half the amount of cheese, double steak, with vegetables is unhealthy???

I'd rather have the nourishment of food, instead of going without food.

Even prisoners get three meals a day.

JFC, if you can't eat three meals a day without getting fat, you're eating like absolute dog chit, lol.

No wonder you all are dying so fast. You're skipping meals as a bandaid to cover your garbage diets. That doesn't work. Absolutely nothing about that is healthy. Eat better.

And why did he get so pissy, and start claiming that we should be eating every two hrs???

Probably because he's skipping meals.

Lol Dave it's fast food and you eat it every day. Lol

Patty, enlighten us what's so bad about Chipotle. I just told you what my bowl consists of, so you point out what's so unhealthy about it. The chicken? The half amount of brown rice? The half amount of black beans? The half amount of cheese? The vegetables I add to it?

Be specific, and tell us all what's so unhealthy.

It's probably fine and better than other options.

What's so unhealthy about IF?

Not eating is pretty unhealthy. Would you recommend IF to a pregnant female? How about an active athlete who's doing two a days? A recruit in boot camp?

so sunning for a day and fasting

Im surprised Im still alive

Drawing general conclusions based on specific corner cases seems invalid. A woman who is 8 months pregnant probably shouldn't max out on clean and jerks. Does that mean nobody should ever max out on clean and jerks? Are Olympians doing it wrong?

Lots of people train fasted and prefer it (myself included). Almost everyone fasts for 6-8 hours every night, it's why breakfast is called "break fast".

Diet, nutrition, and training all work together synergistically and should be planned as a whole, imo.

Been awhile since I've eaten there, back in the day they bragged about the ethically sourced hormone-free meat, which that puts their meats above most (or all) other fast food joints. I would say, the sodium content is through the roof, which is common with fast food places, even in the chopped tomato and sauces, it's just loaded with massive amounts of sodium. I'm not even particularly anti-salt, really not at all, but it's about balance and eating chipotle (or any fast food) regularly, that might become an issue.

Otherwise? Macros are fine. You're getting some beans and probably a few veggies. I recommend the salad bowl, it's no different than a regular bowl, they just put in salad greens at the bottom.

Agreed. All this stuff is about balance for an individual (hormones, training, diet, etc). I sweat a ton during my workouts, but I still choose low sodium options when buying groceries. I had great success with sodium manipulation for contest prep, but that's a very specific (and arduous) case.

Contest prep, that's above my pay grade (although I am familiar with sodium loading pre-contest to pop those veins) -- I'm more thinking general health and blood pressure. Which, I've had moments where mine was flirting with pre-hypertension (and addressed it: losing weight, potassium and such). Sodium certainly contributes to that (which a lot of blood pressure comes down to a balance between sodium and potassium, something that can be out of balance with a lot of people).Your body needs nourishment, but it doesn't need to be in a constant state of growth. I do want to remind you, I'm not critiquing your personal diet, I know little about it, this is just a general statement.

Periods of fasting are required and unavoidable. Everyone 'fasts' when they sleep and at some point break that fast (ie. breakfast), whether it's 8am in the morning or 7pm the next day or 4 days after their last meal.

Just like you are not withering away and dying every night when you go to sleep, that also goes for someone who might fast a little each day and skips breakfast or someone who does an occasional 3+ day water fast. This idea that if we're not constantly eating, and if we're not bad things happen, it's just wrong. Humans are built to go intermittently without eating and be perfectly fine with it.

In a modern society, with bullchit and fast food and constant access to refrigerated food, for most people that balance of Eating/Not-Eating is out of whack. Not necessarily you, but go to Walmart and come back to me and tell me you don't think some people might benefit from a little fast here and there.

Narrowing a daily feeding window to 8 hours per day is certainly different than extended periods of not eating.

And that is how we evolved as a species— periods of feast and famine. Only in recent history do we have abundance all of the time, and we have an obesity and chronic disease epidemic.

I do a limited form of IF- typically have a 13-14 hour fasting window each day. It just means eating my last meal at 5 and then not eating the next morning until 6 or 7.

When I stretch this to 16:8, I lose weight, even if I eat the same calories. I have a fast metabolism so I do what works best for me.

And there are those who skip breakfast, which is beyond stupid, because you're literally breaking a fast.

I did a 16/8 IF for years and felt pretty good with it. Bloodwork always looked good as well. Last year started just doing 12/12 and actually eating breakfast for the first time in years. Last year’s bloodwork was the best it’s been in a while, and I’m also stronger than I’ve ever been. Even my glucose numbers were improved, which I wasn’t really expecting since you always hear about IF helping. I’m sure IF can help some people if they have trouble losing weight, but I’ve always been the opposite and have trouble gaining. The most important thing is eating a good balanced diet, maintaining a healthy weight, and being active. If you do those three things most of the rest will fall into place.

Would you recommend fasting for a teenager? Especially an active one, who's involved in physical sports? What about a child? Someone in boot camp? A pro athlete? A StrongMan?

They/we just break the fast later in the day instead of upon waking.

It makes sense when you consider the circadian rhythms of hormones (cortisol, hgh, testosterone, insulin)

Effects of fasted vs fed-state exercise on performance and post-exercise metabolism: A systematic review and meta-analysis

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/sms.13054

The effects of Ramadan intermittent fasting on athletic performance: Recommendations for the maintenance of physical fitness

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/...14.2012.698297

Ramping up the signal: promoting endurance training adaptation in skeletal muscle by nutritional manipulation

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25142094/

Nobody is saying it's the best option for everyone. However, it seems your argument is that IF is bad for everyone and nobody should do it because...reasons.

In more simple terms: 1) not a big fuking deal either way, 2) each have ups and downs

Dave seems to have some real bias against fasting, though. I mean, like anything else: Do it, don't, whatever. Personally, I do think most people could benefit from incorporating longer periods of fasting than the vast majority of Western people have. That's fairly broad and not necessarily something that applies to a pregnant 14 year old powerlifter training for a marathon, but for the other 99.9978% of people, skipping breakfast every once in awhile probably has some limited benefit. And, I think/suspect, the worse your lifestyle the greater that limited impact is. Nobody is going to cure cancer or gain super powers, but most people might get something out of it, the worse off they are, the bigger that *limited* bang. Someone very healthy, eating good food choices, getting exercise, managing stress, etc... they might not even notice a change if they began IF, because they're already in such great shape. Fatty McGee, 400lbs and addicted to McDonalds on the other hand, that guy might see very drastic improvements.

Is anyone in this thread pro-fasting demanding everyone must do it and adhere to a specific fasting regiment, or is the stance more broad and simply that it is not inherently dangerous and can offer benefits to many people?

What I'm seeing is the usual progression of a thread in the R&P. Take a grey/nuanced topic and someone decides to argue against an extreme position that nobody has taken

Well, you said it.

Fortunately, I have no problems with Dave and consider that we generally get along fine, so this won't happen this time -- but in most other threads when people disagree, as I clowned lightly at Dave a little, but that's just the first step towards the conversation no longer even being about the OT and it's all about smearing chit on walls, our father fighting communists in WW2, diddling children and whatever else we in this section do a very thorough job of covering in great detail.

The longer you go without food, the better.....

What next, it's healthy to have coffee first thing in the morning, on an empty stomach?

If a surgeon was about to work on you at 1700hrs, you'd be fine with the fact that he hasn't eaten anything or drank any water for 10 hrs, and he's been up before sunrise, so he could eat?

:rollseye:

Actually, and I got this from Hubberman, but wait an hour or so. Get up, do light exercise, cold shower, maybe little relaxation, then when your body is primed, amp it up with the caffeine.

On an empty stomach?

And Hubberman? The guy that promoted Turkesterone???

He's not sleep deprived? I'd be concerned he was dehydrated. I would not care that he had not eaten, only if he was used to eating and only for this surgery had not done so. Someone fairly used to fasting and/or metabolically in good shape, it's not a big deal. Someone used to eating like normal people, they skip a meal and have issues w/ glycogen and feeling hungry. So, like most things the context matters.I checked and did see him saying wild things about it on Rogan. He's pretty wrong on that one. I guess that means he's not infallible. As far as I know, he does not promote fasting or even IF, but I don't follow him that closely.